Forums - Politics Discussion - Official 2020 US Election: Democratic Party Discussion

NightlyPoe said:
HylianSwordsman said:

That's not the Democrats buddy. What are you even doing in this thread? Clearly you aren't here to have an honest discussion if this is what you think.

That's exactly what you're advocating as a winning coalition.  You just advanced a long theory on it.

You think winning progressive Christians, all non-white groups, and all white non-Christian groups is a coalition based on "prejudice, tribalism, and hate"? It's the polar opposite. You're projecting.



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HylianSwordsman said:
NightlyPoe said:

That's exactly what you're advocating as a winning coalition.  You just advanced a long theory on it.

You think winning progressive Christians, all non-white groups, and all white non-Christian groups is a coalition based on "prejudice, tribalism, and hate"? It's the polar opposite. You're projecting.

All coalitions based on identity are based on prejudice, tribalism, and hate in the end.  Ones that are based on minorities are no more virtuous.

You think because you are in the tribe that you are virtuous, but you make the same sad mistake of stratifying a society as so many in the past and have not learned from those mistakes.



HylianSwordsman said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:
https://news3lv.com/news/local/pigeons-with-hats-are-back-in-las-vegas-this-time-with-maga-flare

Poor Pigeons...

Did you mean to post in the general politics thread?

Well, it showed up in a live ticker about the Nevada caucus, so I'd say it was related. But it could have better fit there, yeah.



Here's the live ticker I was talking about:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/live-blog/nevada-caucuses-live-updates-results-analysis-third-2020-democratic-contest-n1139816

https://apps.npr.org/liveblogs/20200222-nevada/

Also from there from the entrance poll:

Looks like Sanders won hands down!



NightlyPoe said:
HylianSwordsman said:

You think winning progressive Christians, all non-white groups, and all white non-Christian groups is a coalition based on "prejudice, tribalism, and hate"? It's the polar opposite. You're projecting.

All coalitions based on identity are based on prejudice, tribalism, and hate in the end.  Ones that are based on minorities are no more virtuous.

You think because you are in the tribe that you are virtuous, but you make the same sad mistake of stratifying a society as so many in the past and have not learned from those mistakes.

It's not "based" on identity, it's just a coalition that you can measure off of such support. It will also have the support of unions, working class people, suburban and urban populations. However you want to word it. Me listing off the "identities" as you call them is just showing the breadth and depth of the coalition, not establishing a basis for it. They're demographic labels, not "identities" and the fact that you call them that shows us that YOU'RE the identity politician, not the Democrats.



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Bofferbrauer2 said:

Here's the live ticker I was talking about:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/live-blog/nevada-caucuses-live-updates-results-analysis-third-2020-democratic-contest-n1139816

https://apps.npr.org/liveblogs/20200222-nevada/

Also from there from the entrance poll:

Looks like Sanders won hands down!

Wow, that indeed looks like a Sanders win. If I had to guess, I'd say a Buttigieg 2nd, and Warren, Biden, and Klobuchar clustered closely in 3rd, 4th, and 5th. Probably Biden 3rd, Warren 4th, Klobuchar 5th. Steyer taking up the rear, but not that far behind. The polls showing a surge for him were just outliers. South Carolina will be his last stand if things play out like that.



Nevada results are starting to come in.



HylianSwordsman said:
NightlyPoe said:

All coalitions based on identity are based on prejudice, tribalism, and hate in the end.  Ones that are based on minorities are no more virtuous.

You think because you are in the tribe that you are virtuous, but you make the same sad mistake of stratifying a society as so many in the past and have not learned from those mistakes.

It's not "based" on identity, it's just a coalition that you can measure off of such support. It will also have the support of unions, working class people, suburban and urban populations. However you want to word it. Me listing off the "identities" as you call them is just showing the breadth and depth of the coalition, not establishing a basis for it. They're demographic labels, not "identities" and the fact that you call them that shows us that YOU'RE the identity politician, not the Democrats.

Saying "I know you are, but what am I?" isn't exactly the most persuasive argument.

Re-read your own TED talk.  Every other sentence is about more Latino or black support in certain states.  I didn't say it, you did.  Furthermore, I was around during the Obama administration, it was the expressed plan of the Democrat party throughout that entire era.

Regardless, it remains fantasy that the whole country will follow only one party forever.  Especially, as you maintain, that it is a party led in a radical direction indefinitely.



There have been parties who stayed in power for decades in countries like Sweden, South Korea, Singapore. But the United States seems too diverse, too large and too complex for the same to be true. I don't think any party can squeeze more than 16 years or so in power.

Also at the exit polls: come on, they should at least tell the relative size of the "values" vs. "electability" groups. Is it 50/50? 33/66? Who knows?

Edit - it's 33/66, which should give more or less:

34% Sanders
15% Buttigieg
15% Biden
12% Warren

Without counting early votes and second alignments.

Last edited by haxxiy - on 22 February 2020

 

 

 

 

 

Also from the entrance poll:

Gender:

Women (54% of electorate): Sanders 31%, Biden 15%, Buttigieg 14%, Warren 14%, Klobuchar 12%, Steyer 10%
Men (46%): Sanders 39%, Buttigieg 16%, Biden 15%, Warren 10%
Race:

White (65%): Sanders 30%, Buttigieg 19%, Klobuchar 14%, Warren 14%, Biden 12%
Hispanic/Latino (18%): Sanders 54%, Biden 14%, Buttigieg 9%
Black (11%): Biden 34%, Sanders 28%, Steyer 17%, Warren 12%
Age:

17-29 (17%): Sanders 68%, Buttigieg 10%, Biden 7%, Warren 6%
30-44 (21%): Sanders 49%, Buttigieg 15%, Warren 15%
45-64 (35%): Sanders 27%, Buttigieg 18%, Biden 15%, Warren 14%, Steyer 10%
65+ (27%): Biden 27%, Klobuchar 20%, Sanders 13%, Buttigieg 13%, Warren 10%
Ideology:

Very liberal (30%): Sanders 52%, Warren 16%, Buttigieg 9%, Biden 9%
Somewhat liberal (35%): Sanders 31%, Buttigieg 16%, Warren 14%, Biden 13%, Klobuchar 13%
Moderate (31%): Biden 23%, Sanders 22%, Buttigieg 20%, Klobuchar 14%, Steyer 10%
Education:

College graduate (52%): Sanders 28%, Buttigieg 17%, Biden 15%, Warren 15%, Klobuchar 13%, Steyer 7%
No college degree (48%): Sanders 42%, Biden 14%, Buttigieg 13%, Steyer 10%,

Apart from the 65+ and moderate voters, Sanders wins in every category.

Edit: For all those who say Medicare for all is only popular with left-leaning liberals:

Last edited by Bofferbrauer2 - on 22 February 2020