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Official 2020 US Election: Democratic Party Discussion

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uran10 said:
Moren said:

I forgot to highlight this:

"More people voted in the WV Primaries than the general election ffs."

Dem Primary than for the general election candidate* Either way my point remains

Your point literally doesn't remain because if you add all the primary votes, it still doesn't reach anywhere near what Trump achieved.



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Moren said:
uran10 said:

Dem Primary than for the general election candidate* Either way my point remains

Your point literally doesn't remain because if you add all the primary votes, it still doesn't reach anywhere near what Trump achieved.

My point is that she got less than what came out to vote in the primary for the general. My point is that centrism doesn't excite people to come out while populism does. I'm also gonna drop this little factoid for you real quick. Trump ran as a fake populist.

Last edited by uran10 - on 26 January 2020

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uran10 said:
Moren said:

Your point literally doesn't remain because if you add all the primary votes, it still doesn't reach anywhere near what Trump achieved.

My point is that she got less than what came out to vote in the primary for the general. My point is that centrism doesn't excite people to come out while populism does. I'm also gonna drop this little factoid for you real quick. Trump ran as a fake populist.

Democrats won the House in 2018 because a lot of suburban white voters were fed up with Trump's populism and rhetoric.

Anyway, I love how you deflected my main point - in which I questioned Bernie's strategy to pass his legislation hinging in primarying Democrats like Joe Manchin. Sure, that may be achievable in the Northeast with a couple Senators. In West Virginia, it will only achieve having a far-right Republican who'd vote for McConnell as majority leader.



Moren said:
SpokenTruth said:

You might want to read your first link.

I forgot to highlight this:

"More people voted in the WV Primaries than the general election ffs."

In the democratic primaries 242,539 voted. In the general election Hillary Clinton got 188,794 votes in WV. In contrast, in the republican primary voted 204,061 people, but in the general election Trump got 489,371 votes. So yes, turnout dropped in the general for democrats. Dunno if uran meant this.



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Moren said:
uran10 said:

My point is that she got less than what came out to vote in the primary for the general. My point is that centrism doesn't excite people to come out while populism does. I'm also gonna drop this little factoid for you real quick. Trump ran as a fake populist.

Democrats won the House in 2018 because a lot of suburban white voters were fed up with Trump's populism and rhetoric.

Anyway, I love how you deflected my main point - in which I questioned Bernie's strategy to pass his legislation hinging in primarying Democrats like Joe Manchin. Sure, that may be achievable in the Northeast with a couple Senators. In West Virginia, it will only achieve having a far-right Republican who'd vote for McConnell as majority leader.

Sanders already got an impressive record of actually getting legislation through the senate. But besides that: many people believed that establishment republicans would block Trump and he never would get anything passed. But in reality they all fell in line. Similar things will happen with Sanders. Also it is quite funny, how the people who don't want to get progressive legislation passed (the centrist democrats) are the one saying Sanders will not get anything passed. Well, you get probably more passed if you actually try. We can be sure with Biden not many things will get better, as he actually says he doesn't want to change things. You can't fail with your legislation in congress if you don't even put legislation into congress.



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Okay Let me Just say this quickly before I have to deal with this. I've already explained everything about how Bernie can win and will win and how he'll be able to get his policies passed. So now Let me go into detail since certain people are so purposely missing the point.

1) Getting his policies passed. Bernie was the mayor of Vermont. He won by 10 votes as a socialist(social democrat in all honesty) and during his 1st term a lot of his proposals got blocked. He then went on and managed to get them passed by going directly to the people and telling them what he was doing (rallies) and who were blocking his proposals. Those that were blocking the will of the people were then removed from office via the will of the people. Bernie has the most supporters, the most volunteers, and is the most popular politician in America. The reason his slogan is Not ME. Us is because its not about him, its about the american people. All he's doing is rising us up to fight against the corrupt politicians that don't want to listen to us. As president he can highlight these politicians and with his popularity they'll have 2 choices. Cave to the will of the people and pass these popular policies or continue to be corporate sell outs and get primaried and most likely lose just like what happened in Vermont. Does this answer your question about how he's getting his policies through @Moren 

2) 2018, You brought this up and I'm very happy you brought it up cause there are 2 reasons the democrats took back the house. 1) Yes, its a backlash election. The first midterm after a new president usually leads to the opposition party making some gains, this is what happened somewhat. But the real thing that you missed here is 2). The People that came out and swung it to the democrats were the youth. Yes, 2018 was the first time the youth outvoted the older folks. We're the largest voting block now. Who is the most popular with the youths by a large Margin? Bernie Sanders.

3) Voter turn out. This is essentially a continuation to part 2 but at the same time explaining to you why this matters. Democrats only win, when people come out to vote. They only win when the voter turn out is high. If people stay home, the republicans win because they are the ones that feel like it is their civic duty to go out and vote in every election. They're the older folks who will always vote, who watch mainstream media, mainly fox news. However when you put someone on the ballot that isn't talking about corporate centrism and is speaking to the people and their issues you see Dems winning. I'll turn back to my presidential example. Obama ran as a progressive and won as a progressive with a very high voter turn out. Hillary, John Kerry, And Al Gore ran as centrist and lost with low voter turn outs. With youths being the now largest voter block and overwhelmingly progressive, the only person who can bring these voters out and motivate them to come to the polls is Bernie. If they come out to the polls then not only will Bernie will the presidency in a massive way but The down ballot dems will benefit from him being the head of the ticket as youths will come out and vote Democrat.

4) Obama. As he ran as a progressive and got an overwhelming victory and super majority he then proceeded to govern as a centrist. What followed was the democrats over the 8 years of Obama losing over 1000 seats in congress and in states as well as multiple governorship. This is literally the perfect example of why Centrism doesn't work and why if you put them on the ballot you will lose and give trump 4 more years and possibly even give him a full republican majority.

This is the simple explanation for you Moren I hope you understand what I'm getting at. I'm out now, I'm going to relax until after Iowa and NH cause once Bernie wins and depending on how he wins them I'll make a very bold prediction, that if it comes to pass Biden will be finished. Anyway, enjoy the rest of your Sunday and please read to understand and not to push your biases. Thank you.



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Mnementh said:
Moren said:

I forgot to highlight this:

"More people voted in the WV Primaries than the general election ffs."

In the democratic primaries 242,539 voted. In the general election Hillary Clinton got 188,794 votes in WV. In contrast, in the republican primary voted 204,061 people, but in the general election Trump got 489,371 votes. So yes, turnout dropped in the general for democrats. Dunno if uran meant this.

Precisely what I meant.



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Mnementh said:

But besides that: many people believed that establishment republicans would block Trump and he never would get anything passed. But in reality they all fell in line. Similar things will happen with Sanders.

Actually, I find merit in this. I think it's a fair point for at least 45 Seats + Schumer.

However, I don't think it's exactly 1:1. Due to geography, Senate Democrats need Sinema, Manchin and Tester much more than they need the party. Trump managed to rid or stop his enemies in deep red states Tennessee, Nebraska, South Carolina, etc. Those states would have been red anyway. Being heavy handed in Arizona came with a cost, and Collins (Maine) and Gardner (Colorado) are in deep electoral trouble.



uran10 said:

I've seen a lot of people (who would never vote Bernie anyway) come out and get outraged at Joe Rogan's endorsement and completely miss the point of touting this. Remember all the talk about Bernie not being able to win over conservative view points and such? This doesn't exactly apply to Rogan as he's said he's never voted republican but more to his huge audience that was exposed to it. Getting this vote is important because Rogan has had on People from all across the political spectrum and this is the conclusion he came to. Yes he's got some bad views on certain topics but it doesn't change the fact that he's had influences from all across the political spectrum and chose Bernie. His audience under the Podcast with Bernie came around to him and his subreddit is literally rallying to get registered to vote for Bernie in the Primary. This is Huge. And this isn't like the Cenk situation because Bernie isn't endorsing Joe, its Joe endorsing Bernie and it proves he can attract more independent minded voters which, mind you, is needed to win the general. Just putting this out there, have a good Saturday guys.

As for the election outlook, its do or die time for Bernie and this would be the case regardless. He has to win Both Iowa and NH or Biden will most likely win the nomination. Its looking good, but if you're volunteering and such don't let up. We need to carry this over the finish line.

Shit like the Rogan outrage is what makes me continue to lose faith in humanity, sliver by sliver. Ok I'm probably being hyperbolic and obviously this is just a small minority of loudmouth simpletons but still, to see it even see such a dumb thing with no basis of outrage even get a decent chunk of traction (and a few smear article publications about Bernie/Rogan) is immensely discouraging to me. 

I'm a big fan of Rogan and find his views similar to mine, at least based off the maybe 20-25 hours I've heard him speak to various guests on his podcasts. I dig that he has all sorts of personalities on, from Bill Maher and Tulsi Gabbard to James Hetfield, Abby Martin, Bill Burr, Kevin Smith, Jordan Peterson etc.. People of a vast range of viewpoints (both political and otherwise) and an array of trades. He seems like a genuine, chill, sensible progressively-minded dude so to seem him get villainized is shocking to me, and illustrates to me literally ANYONE can be demonized if this guy can..

He seems to be a fairly moderate anti-establishment liberal, mostly independent of the Democrats, who questions quite a bit of what's considered "the norm" and is willing to hear out all sides and think about all sides of an argument. That's literally it. But oh, he's had on Jordan Peterson, Candace Owens, and Alex Jones, so he's awful! Oh, and I guess he made a few lude jokes/comment in his hundreds of hours of talking (and he's also a comedian mind you), and made a comment of something like trans shouldn't be able to compete with and beat up on biological women in women's sports (which is sensible and true!). But I guess some just love to be outraged and love to stay in their small bubbles..

I just don't get why many establishment Democrats think it's a good idea to demonize and distance themselves from such a sensible liberal voice in media, especially one that has millions of fans and 10s of millions of views. 

The funniest thing is, Warren, Biden, and Petey ALL apparently reached out to be on Joe's show and Joe decline b/c he didn't like them lol. 

I'm glad the Bernie camp reaffirmed/explained the reasoning behind their endorsement but the fact they even felt the need to just reaffirms to me that we live in a tremendously sick, ignorant society. 

Last edited by DarthMetalliCube - on 27 January 2020

DarthMetalliCube said:
uran10 said:

I've seen a lot of people (who would never vote Bernie anyway) come out and get outraged at Joe Rogan's endorsement and completely miss the point of touting this. Remember all the talk about Bernie not being able to win over conservative view points and such? This doesn't exactly apply to Rogan as he's said he's never voted republican but more to his huge audience that was exposed to it. Getting this vote is important because Rogan has had on People from all across the political spectrum and this is the conclusion he came to. Yes he's got some bad views on certain topics but it doesn't change the fact that he's had influences from all across the political spectrum and chose Bernie. His audience under the Podcast with Bernie came around to him and his subreddit is literally rallying to get registered to vote for Bernie in the Primary. This is Huge. And this isn't like the Cenk situation because Bernie isn't endorsing Joe, its Joe endorsing Bernie and it proves he can attract more independent minded voters which, mind you, is needed to win the general. Just putting this out there, have a good Saturday guys.

As for the election outlook, its do or die time for Bernie and this would be the case regardless. He has to win Both Iowa and NH or Biden will most likely win the nomination. Its looking good, but if you're volunteering and such don't let up. We need to carry this over the finish line.

Shit like the Rogan outrage is what makes me continue to lose faith in humanity, sliver by sliver. Ok I'm probably being hyperbolic and obviously this is just a small minority of loudmouth simpletons but still, to see it even see such a dumb thing with no basis of outrage even get a decent chunk of traction (and a few smear article publications about Bernie/Rogan) is immensely discouraging to me. 

I'm a big fan of Rogan and find his views similar to mine, at least based off the maybe 20-25 hours I've heard him speak to various guests on his podcasts. I dig that he has all sorts of personalities on, from Bill Maher and Tulsi Gabbard to James Hetfield, Abby Martin, Bill Burr, Kevin Smith, Jordan Peterson etc.. People of a vast range of viewpoints (both political and otherwise) and an array of trades. He seems like a genuine, chill, sensible progressively-minded dude so to seem him get villainized is shocking to me, and illustrates to me literally ANYONE can be demonized if this guy can..

He seems to be a fairly moderate anti-establishment liberal, mostly independent of the Democrats, who questions quite a bit of what's considered "the norm" and is willing to hear out all sides and think about all sides of an argument. That's literally it. But oh, he's had on Jordan Peterson, Candace Owens, and Alex Jones, so he's awful! Oh, and I guess he made a a few lude jokes/comment in his hundreds of hours of talking (and he's also a comedian mind you), and made a comment of something like trans should be able to compete with and beat up on biological women in womens' sports (which is sensible and true!). But I guess some just love to be outrage and love to stay in their small bubbles..

I just don't get why many establishment Democrats think it's a good idea to demonize and distance themselves from such a sensible liberal voice in media, especially one that has millions of fans and 10s of millions of views. 

The funniest thing is, Warren, Biden, and Petey ALL apparently reached out to be on Joe's show and Joe decline b/c he didn't like them lol. 

I'm glad the Bernie camp reaffirmed/explained the reasoning behind their endorsement but the fact they even felt the need to just reaffirms to me that we live in a tremendously sick, ignorant society. 

Maybe the underlined explains the bolded.



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