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Official 2020 US Election: Democratic Party Discussion

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I'm loving this. Without Bernie to rein them in for the next couple weeks, his radical staffers are going to go completely unhinged right before Iowa.



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tsogud said:
jason1637 said:
I'd still taken Biden any day over a socialist.

What are your objections to socialism? And why do you prefer capitalism? Also even though Bernie is a socialist his policies are effectively social democratic policies, anywhere else in the world he'd be center-left. Every other developed nation has what Bernie is fighting for, and they're happy with it.

Government should never be trusted to handle most industries. There should definitly be restriction in the private sector but it shouldnt be government ran because they can't be trusted. I don't trust the government so it I would make no sense for me to want them to run mor eindustries. Like I said capitalism isnt perfect but imo it's the best economic system we have so far an you can still have a capitalist economy but you can implement policies that amke the economy work for the people like Yang has been promising.

If Bernie becomes the leader of the party more mainstream dems will move left and he'll adopt more socialist parties and sooner than later the Democratic party will be full of socialist.

If Bernie becomes elected I honestly don't see a lot of his policies getting done. I think we'll have more frequent government shutdowns, a worse economy, an increase in illegal immigration since he wants to decriminalize border crossings. He seems like a nice genuine guy and it's terrible how the media has treated him but he's just too much of a socialist and i'd prefer everyone else running now over him (besides warren, she's a snake).

Last edited by jason1637 - on 20 January 2020

jason1637 said:
tsogud said:

What are your objections to socialism? And why do you prefer capitalism? Also even though Bernie is a socialist his policies are effectively social democratic policies, anywhere else in the world he'd be center-left. Every other developed nation has what Bernie is fighting for, and they're happy with it.

Government should never be trusted to handle most industries. There should definitly be restriction in the private sector but it shouldnt be government ran because they can't be trusted. I don't trust the government so it I would make no sense for me to want them to run mor eindustries. Like I said capitalism isnt perfect but imo it's the best economic system we have so far an you can still have a capitalist economy but you can implement policies that amke the economy work for the people like Yang has been promising.

If Bernie becomes the leader of the party more mainstream dems will move left and he'll adopt more socialist parties and sooner than later the Democratic party will be full of socialist.

If Bernie becomes elected I honestly don't see a lot of his policies getting done. I think we'll have more frequent government shutdowns, a worse economy, an increase in illegal immigration since he wants to decriminalize border crossings. He seems like a nice genuine guy and it's terrible how the media has treated him but he's just too much of a socialist and i'd prefer everyone else running now over him (besides warren, she's a snake).

Hmm I see, thank you for your perspective. Well although I do disagree with you, I understand where you're coming from.

No president can accomplish everything they promise but a huge movement to the left is what I feel we desperately need in this country. Save for a few key social issues the Democratic party has moved too far right and is basically what the Republican party should be. Both parties have failed the American people, I think we need a president who understands that and will actually work on behalf of us rather than special interests.



 

AOC is the future of the party



 

Hopefully the common-sense moderates of the Democratic Party will move on to the Republican party - making it viable again in 2028.

Edit: Then again, the worst case scenario is a far-right and a far-left party like the UK.

Last edited by Moren - on 20 January 2020

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https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bernie-sanders-apologizes-to-joe-biden-for-surrogates-op-ed-alleging-he-has-a-big-corruption-problem-today-2020-01-20/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab7e&linkId=80967200

Huh. That was quick. I don't expect his surrogates to tone it down or behave even after this.



The message we needed today.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

jason1637 said:
tsogud said:

What are your objections to socialism? And why do you prefer capitalism? Also even though Bernie is a socialist his policies are effectively social democratic policies, anywhere else in the world he'd be center-left. Every other developed nation has what Bernie is fighting for, and they're happy with it.

Government should never be trusted to handle most industries. There should definitly be restriction in the private sector but it shouldnt be government ran because they can't be trusted. I don't trust the government so it I would make no sense for me to want them to run mor eindustries. Like I said capitalism isnt perfect but imo it's the best economic system we have so far an you can still have a capitalist economy but you can implement policies that amke the economy work for the people like Yang has been promising.

That is something I don't understand. In modern countries governments are controlled by Democracy. You can elect the persons running it. On the other hand private industry means some random guy controls the company and in the long run (because of capitalistic pressures) these of the random guys win out, that are most cut-throat oriented towards making winnings on the cost of everything else: security, people, human rights, environment. All these stuff has to be imposed on the industry through laws. Why not let some key industries be run by people you can elect?



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jason1637 said:
tsogud said:

What are your objections to socialism? And why do you prefer capitalism? Also even though Bernie is a socialist his policies are effectively social democratic policies, anywhere else in the world he'd be center-left. Every other developed nation has what Bernie is fighting for, and they're happy with it.

Government should never be trusted to handle most industries. There should definitly be restriction in the private sector but it shouldnt be government ran because they can't be trusted. I don't trust the government so it I would make no sense for me to want them to run mor eindustries. Like I said capitalism isnt perfect but imo it's the best economic system we have so far an you can still have a capitalist economy but you can implement policies that amke the economy work for the people like Yang has been promising.

If Bernie becomes the leader of the party more mainstream dems will move left and he'll adopt more socialist parties and sooner than later the Democratic party will be full of socialist.

If Bernie becomes elected I honestly don't see a lot of his policies getting done. I think we'll have more frequent government shutdowns, a worse economy, an increase in illegal immigration since he wants to decriminalize border crossings. He seems like a nice genuine guy and it's terrible how the media has treated him but he's just too much of a socialist and i'd prefer everyone else running now over him (besides warren, she's a snake).

Here's the thing. I actually see this from a few angles - and this is coming from more of a Libertarian type (leaning left but still) I do believe in the free market and Capitalism at its core. I believe in and support the notion of "voting with your wallet" and that competition is a healthy system that invokes progress in some ways and can offer benefits as it forces companies to constantly improve.

CRONY Capitalism is what I take issue with, and this is what inevitably happens when you don't have checks on these guys. I don't inherently trust government power either, but at least government tends to have the peoples' interests front and center, more so than corporations anyway, which are soulless entities full of unelected people, all or most of whom only bow to the almighty dollar, and often don't have to answer to anyone. That's a dangerous prospect for me. Obviously, too much government power can be dangerous too, but at least these guys have checks and balances, regulations, etc, to a far greater degree than corporations.

I mean hell, just look at a company like Google. They've evolved into essentially a mini-empire (and one among MANY mini corporate empires) which probably has AT LEAST as much power as our US government, if not a bit MORESO in certain ways. 

As I think I've said, I prefer Tulsi and Yang over Bernie (though I've cooled on Yang somewhat after his sketchy plans on universal healthcare). But it's not like Bernie seeks to abolish capitalism or anything, he's merely trying to narrow the increasingly insane wealth gap, put some checks on the corporate system to make things more balanced, and help make things fairer for the working class amidst a rigged system. Make social programs more prominent and accessible to help provide a safety net for people, etc. At least that's the impression I get.

To me the key is balance. Too much government power unchecked is dangerous, but so is too much corporate power, maybe moreso, because there are SO many different entities that seemingly have fewer regulations and put profits over people.

Last edited by DarthMetalliCube - on 21 January 2020