I don't think either one of us is ever going to budge on our opinions on this matter. All I can say is Google is absolutely coming for the gaming market, and Android has basically wiped out Bravia and Xperia, and cost Sony more losses than anything else in the history of the company. Sony failed to keep up with the industry in the mobile space with PlayStation and it is the worst decision the company has ever made. As I see it, if they fail to keep up with the rest of the industry in the home space, people will leave just as fast.

If they fail with the PlayStation ecosystem, they have no where to turn. People are not going to buy a Console from them that runs Android or Windows. I do not believe for a second that a single PS5 console will compete against PC, TV, Set Top Box, Tablet, Smartphone, and Handheld offerings from the rest of the market, when people can get Halo, Call of Duty, Gears of War, Grand Theft Auto, Fifa, NBA 2K, and everything else 3rd party and Microsoft on every other device. PlayStation will by far offer the worst value for 3rd party titles, while requiring a Proprietary device that exists outside of everything else in peoples connected lives. I do not believe Sony can dominate the market on exclusives alone, and if things go the way they are looking right now, that is all they will have.

Android didn't "wipe out Bravia and Xperia".  That's an operating system. Samsung and Apple wiped out Sony's Xperia line (as well as utterly decimated the OS kings, Microsoft at their own game. As for TVs. Ask yout average TV user what operating system their TV runs and they'll look at you funny. No one really gives a shit about the operating system their TV runs. All they care about is whether it has the apps they want and whether those apps work the way they should.

Why would Sony make a console that runs Android or Windows? You make zero sense. People buy game consoles to play video games. As long as it has an app package that's "good enough" that's all that matters. Whether or not you can view .pdfs or check your email on your PS5 isn't going to matter at all to a prospective buyer.

The PlayStation 4 already competes against PC, TV, Set Top Boxes, Tablets, Smartphones  and Handheld offerings and are on the verge of 100 million in sales. Why would the PS5 suddenly not be able to compete? Because now you can play Gears of War or Forza streamed to a tablet? And again, here's the part you keep ignoring. Tablet owners aren't willing to spend $60 to play Forza on a tablet (with touch screen controls no less). How are game developers going to make money selling their games on platforms with userbases that are unwilling to pay for them? You can get FIFA on iOS and Android, and shockingly, EA still managed to sell nearly 12 million copies PS4 alone, and that's just hard copies. Why would this change? Exclusives only matter when third party offerings are equal or near equal. That's why when someone is choosing between a PS4 and a Switch, it doesn't matter that Madden is also on Xbox, it matters that Madden is not on Switch. And if Switch get's some type of tablet/touchscreen version of Madden for that sells for $8 on the store? People are still going to lean towards buying a PS4 to play the Madden they want to play - in front of a TV with a controller.

You arguments aren't based on any kind of sound reasoning. You're treating game consoles as if they're PCs or TVs or set top boxes or whatever. They're not. Google is just going to quirt out device after device that runs Android and users the google play store like the next Ouya and let Sony do their own thing.

I swear we live in two different worlds. Most people I talk to are fully aware of what TV OS, Set Top Box, Console, or PC they are using to get content to their TV, along with knowing what Apps they enjoy on said OS.

Android is absolutely what damaged Sony's Mobile and TV business. They were doing great in the Mobile space with PSP and TV sales were fine when they were running their own OS. When they bought complete control of their Phone business and Killed off PS Vita to focus exclusively on Android based Xperia's is the exact moment that they started loosing billions and declining in sales. Ever since they dropped their own OS on their TVs and moved to Android sales and profits have fallen every year. Android has done nothing but hurt Sony, and it has drove a wedge between PlayStation and the rest of the company. Xperia and Bravia do not push Sony services, or interact with the PS4. They actually compete directly with Sony, and push Google services over Sony's own. Sony looses on the sale of the hardware, and every time a user grabs anything from the Google Play Store and Google services instead of PS Store and PS Services.

Of course I compare consoles to PC, Smart TV, and Set Top Boxes, saying they don't compete is no different than saying iOS and Android didn't compete against Handhelds. We have already seen how foolish it was to pretend competition doesn't exist in the Mobile space, why would we do it again in the Home space?

As for why PS5 will fail when PS4 has succeeded. PS5 will be facing a market where people can play Madden 20, NBA 2K20, Grand Theft Auto 6, and Future Assasin's Creed and Call of Duty titles, directly on their TV, with a controller, or via PC, or a Set Top Box, or on their Tablet/Phone, or on their Tablet/Phone with a controller, or with their Tablet/Phone streamed to their TV with a controller. PS4 did not face a market, where the devices people are using every day for every other computing and entertainment experience, also had the ability to deliver the same gaming experience as PS4. PS5 will be facing a market where all of these device offer the same, or an even better experience than PS5.

PlayStation 5 will fail because it doesn't offer anything people can't already get from every other device they own. Sony will fail, because they have not made an ecosystem of devices that allow people to get done what they need to get done. That is why I say Sony is Sony/PlayStation's greatest threat. They have everything they need to build an ecosystem that can compete with Apple, Microsoft, and Google, but they fail time and time again to capitalize. There is nothing Apple, Google, and Microsoft can do to over take Sony in gaming, only what Sony won't do to compete against iOS, Android, and Windows. PS5, a single Home console, can not fight against ecosystems with devices that span all form factors.

You have some strange friends if you think your average joe cares what operating system their TV runs.

If you want to argue with a straight face that Sony adopting Android OS onto their phones instead of whatever OS they were running before that that was getting completely and utterly shredded by Android and iOS actually hurt Sony's phone sales rather than sticking with whatever they had or putting on their own new, OS and trying to go toe-to-toe with google and apple in the cell phone, well.... you're entitled to think that, I guess, but that's about as polite as I can be.

Ohh, and Sony never "killed off the Vita to focus on Xperia". The Vita was still born. They just accepted its death and moved on.

Ohh you think you're going to be able to play Madden 20 or GTA 6 on a tablet or directly off a smart TV and get an experience that's close enough? That's cute. You think that streaming is going to be good enough to compete with dedicated hardware directly? That's cute too. You think that people are going to spend $60 to play Madden on their iPad? That's just plain adorable. None of those devices are going to offer the same or even a "good enough" experience to a PS5 or Xbox Two. You're going to be in for a rude awakening when in 5-6 years time these two consoles have a combined 120+ million in sales and people are still using the phones and tablets to play Angry Birds or whatever generic free mobile game is popular then. You must be REALLY confused how Nintendo has sold 30+ million Switches in less than 2 years. Shouldn't Apple and Google be eating Nintendo's dinner at the "portable gaming space" by your metrics?

Ya I own multiple smart TVs and I've never put 2 seconds of thought into what OS my TV runs until reading this conversation. Most people look at a combination of price, screen size & resolution when getting a TV. People dont care about OS, all they care about is if it has the popular apps like Netflix, Hulu, etc.

Same thing goes for car stereos. All people care about is whether they support Android Auto or Apple Carplay, and pretty much nothing else.

nintendo ms google apple any big tech company can be a threat thinking otherwise would lead me to think people are just fanboying for their preferred brands

I might have a bit too naive way of looking at this, but I would say that Nintendo in Japan and Microsoft in other parts of the world.

PS Now is out for 5 years now, launched just after the launch of the PS4, how is this still "experimenting" ?

Do you know the average Joe?

I very rarely meet anyone regardless of if they are a child, middle age, or elderly that does not know what device or OS they are using to get content to their TV. Name an OS that can be used either on a TV, Set Top Box, Streaming Stick, Console, or PC, and I can tell you numerous people that are die hards for it. Obviously not everyone cares, but you would be surprised who does, and even more surprised how important it is to them.

Laugh all you want about what kind of experience you think are coming to these devices, just remember progress is real, and a lot changes over time.

Where you get the idea I think people are going to pay $60 to play a game exclusively on their tablet I haven't a clue. It is not even remotely what I am claiming, or what companies are even talking about. The idea is that people pay $60 per game, or $10 -$20 a month for a library of games, and they will have access to that game on every device they own. That is where Sony is going to get hit hard if they don't stay competitive. If $60 on a game in the PlayStation Ecosystem gets you the rights to play a game on exclusively PS5, while $60 on Microsoft, Google, or Apple, gets you the rights to play the game on your PC, TV, Set Top Box, Console, Tablet, Phone, and Handheld, then Sony is going to be an obvious rip off. As far as we know right now, that is exactly the direction Microsoft and Google are going, and unless Sony has something up their sleeve, PlayStation games will be PS5 only.

I don't know why I would be surprised with the Switch's sales, they are selling a device that replaces both their Home and Mobile offerings. Nintendo has almost exclusively sold devices on 3rd party content for 20+ years. I would be more shocked if a Nintendo handheld/Console Hybrid with the entire Nintendo library was a failure. Thinking that the Switch would be a failure would completely contradict my theory that an Xbox or PlayStation Phone would be a viable device within the Windows and PlayStation Ecosystems.

At the end of the day, I hope you are right. I hope that PlayStation succeeds, and doesn't get wiped away by complacency. PlayStation has been the Home of 99% of my digital experiences since I was 9 years old. Things just don't look all that rosy right now.