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Forums - Politics Discussion - Adult Get Vaccinated and It's International News

NightlyPoe said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

I think you missed the point of this news. 

The point is not the boy, or even his parents, but Andrew Wakefield, the British guy who amassed followers in his teaching that vaccines would cause autism and who is at the base of the measles outbreak in the US. It's point is that (mostly) ultraconservatives are following his teachings and are now reaping the foul fruits in form of outbreaks from diseases which are thought mostly eradicated in the developed countries.

Basically, it's trying to say "don't listen to this guy, it's safe to get vaccinated and you should do it if you haven't yet".

Actually, you're confirming that I was exactly right.  The press has a point of view and are pretending a non-story is a story in order to push it.

Instead of writing another story about how Wakefield is discredited, they try to turn this guy into a figurehead in order to make it a social movement of their own.  As a journalistic practice, is bankrupt and is so flimsy it would be an embarrassment to put in the opinion section.

Well, to be fair, I didn't hear about him or the measles outbreak before this thread, so for me it was big news



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NightlyPoe said:

...It's completely manufactured, but the goal isn't to inform their readers/viewers, it's to advocate for one side of an issue via manufactured personalization.  They can run articles from scientists all day to try and persuade, but it's easier to elevate this guy and pretend a non-story is a story in order to put a face on it.  This is just one of the ridiculous and transparent attempts at it.

It's something to keep in mind while consuming news and their little bag of tricks in how to manipulate the public.

Emphasis mine.

In this case, it's to (not so) subtly point out the insanity of one "side" of the argument. By personalizing a single story, they point out that you too, kid who has certifiably insane parents, can right the wrongs they have done to you when you come of age.

News has always been subjective. To some people, this is more important than what Trump did today or what Brexit happenings are going down. Some people prefer to read about celebrities. To each their own.

However, as another poster pointed out, if your goal is to criticize the story by bringing attention to how much of a non-story it is, then congrats, you just made it a story. By getting the eyeballs of potentially hundreds more readers, you've just spread the story more effectively than the news outlet(s) could on their own.

Finally, a question. What is manufactured personalization? This is an anecdote of one human being. The news outlets didn't manufacture it - this really happened. They spread the story, but unless you're suggesting they put the idea in the kid's head and incentivized him to do it, that's just called reporting. 



 

Currently playing: Civ 6

Man... that´s just... pretty pretty dumb journalism

Journalism, I mean, true, technical, *useful* journalism seems to be a fading thing. No wonder my two friends who are journalists (and VERY competent, qualified ones) are having such a hard time finding a job.

That said... I don´t understand why some people still think that adults getting vaccines is a big issue. We must took vaccines during pratically our entire life.



Hiku said:
cdude1034 said:

Emphasis mine.

In this case, it's to (not so) subtly point out the insanity of one "side" of the argument. By personalizing a single story, they point out that you too, kid who has certifiably insane parents, can right the wrongs they have done to you when you come of age.

News has always been subjective. To some people, this is more important than what Trump did today or what Brexit happenings are going down. Some people prefer to read about celebrities. To each their own.

However, as another poster pointed out, if your goal is to criticize the story by bringing attention to how much of a non-story it is, then congrats, you just made it a story. By getting the eyeballs of potentially hundreds more readers, you've just spread the story more effectively than the news outlet(s) could on their own.

Finally, a question. What is manufactured personalization? This is an anecdote of one human being. The news outlets didn't manufacture it - this really happened. They spread the story, but unless you're suggesting they put the idea in the kid's head and incentivized him to do it, that's just called reporting. 

 

SpokenTruth said:

Well there it is.  You don't get it.  What is news to one may not be to others.  For you, this is irrelevant.  For others, it's a story of taking control against a growing conspiracy that is potentially life threatening for millions of people.

It's also one of many similar stories whereby children (and adults still living with their parents) are looking for way to get vaccinated against their parents directives.
https://www.parents.com/news/teens-are-asking-online-how-to-get-vaccinated-without-their-parents-consent/
https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/children-are-asking-the-internet-how-to-get-vaccinated-without-their-parents-consent/

You're looking at one article in isolation without recognizing it is part of a larger story.

Was going to say something similar to cdude1034 and SpokenTruth, so I'll just quote them and add to it.

There is a multifaceted problem with how information is consumed today. It's not just a problem with false information, or people's inability to fact check important stories.
Why did anti-vaxing even become a thing? Do you think these people mainly read through pages upon pages of scientific 'research'?
Or was it because of how the story became personally relatable with the 'autism' thing?

I'm betting it's the later.
We live in a world where many people primarily only read headlines, and chanting three worded sentences can be more efficient than actually discussing details.

Build The Wall
Lock Her Up
Yes We Can

So to reach certain people the answer may not be to publish tens of thousands of peer reviewed studies from research (see global warming), but rather to sensationalize a story, like this. And hopefully that incentivizes them to read up on the details, like that one person in this thread. But unfortunately, I'm sure many will not.

Is it ok just because it's true, or just because it aligns with what I think?
It's not like media aren't manipulative even when they publish traditional stories.

And to touch a bit on what was said in the quotes above, I think it's important that a story like this gets the spotlight to highlight just what a ridiculous situation we are in.
In the 80's people expected us to have flying cars in 2019. Instead, we have teenagers defying their parents, and sneaking out to get vaccinations.
That he is legally able isn't really the point. It's ridiculous that he even had to do it in the first place. And that he survived for 18 years when someone sneezing on him could have sent him to an early grave.

@bolded: Probably with the Red Scare and McCarthyism. At the time vaccines were considered a Soviet ploy to socialize medicine and that the profession had been infiltrated massively by Russian doctors. Considering how widespread and engraved the red scare got, I think it all really started there. Add to this some religious beliefs (like the fact that Jehova's witnesses don't allow for blood donations as it makes them "unpure") and some puritan traditions, and you get a perfect storm for anti-vaxxers to even be a thing. The link between vaccines and Autism came only 2 decades later, but is now the driving force against it.

The problem with the news is partly that they need money, so they are incentivised to make their articles as eye-catchy and sensational as possible, especially on their internet presence, hence the clickbait headlines full of half-truths. It also works against them as many people assume the rest of the article just from the headline, so you can say it went horribly right for them, as they get more clicks and thus sponsor money, but undermines their entire profession. Media would need an independent and reliable source of income to avoid these pitfalls, but good luck finding something like that.I really wish people wouldn't just assume the rest from the headlines, but quite a few do, and there ain't much you can do against it.

Another problem is that many who are against these things are actually not dumb or not interested in the matter, quite the opposite in fact as a study found out (would need to dig deep to find that one again). They just are very selective about the information. If there are 100 articles proving climate change for instance and one railing against it, they dismiss the 100 articles before and truly believe the one against it as proof that it's all a hoax. How do you want to fight against that unless the climate changes hits them right into their faces? Unless there would be no misinformation about such things anymore on the internet, which is impossible, they will not change their mind unless somebody else points out the dots and plotholes in the threads they are following.



NightlyPoe said:
And now being an adult who needs to ask Reddit how to make a doctor's appointment qualifies him to testify to Congress.

Yeah, we're doomed.

I think you're missing the point, which is the growing problem of people not getting vaccinated and the outbreaks. Maybe the media is gladly encouraging people to go get vaccinated.

Anyhow, its a 24 hours new cycle. I'd consider this news compared to a lot of other bullshit stories, like fake hate crimes.



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Just force parents to vaccinate their kids unless they are allergic to it, simple as that. Don’t understand why we have religious clauses here in Canada and the US that can allow this to happen. I understand people have the right to express themselves, but yeah, this should be a big no no. When your risking the health of humanity as a whole, fuck that.



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NightlyPoe said:
SpokenTruth said:

Must I repeat myself?  yes, I must.

"Well there it is. You don't get it. What is news to one may not be to others. For you, this is irrelevant. For others, it's a story of taking control against a growing conspiracy that is potentially life threatening for millions of people."

It's a non-story to you because you don't like or agree with it.  You even call the story benign which suggests you don't recognize the tragedies already befalling us from the anti-vaccination movement.

It's not news to anyone that an adult can make their own medical decisions.  You want to spin it out into a greater story (in short, build a narrative), but you're rather proving my point.  It's not about the non-story, it's about how it can be spun into something more than it is.  It's simple advocacy.

Furthermore, I partially chose this story to highlight because I agreed with the premise.  I called the goal benign (which, for some reason, you seem to have taken for the opposite of the word's meaning) and stated my position clearly in the topic post.  I could have used other more politically charged examples, but this was a safe one where the misbehavior of the reporters is evident even if their intentions are non-controversial.

I believe it's your eyes that are being shaded to the harm being done by such practices being common because you agree with the intention.

You sound like a moron repeating the same thing over an over again.

This IS a story.

Going by your reasoning, Rosa Parks not standing up on the bus was not a story. I mean it was just an adult woman chosing to not stand up. What's so special about that. I choose not to stand up hundreds of times a day.



This news is just another perfect example of the failure of antivaxers, so the media just ran it.

And that's good, because people need to be vaccinated and need to understand that they need to be vaccinated. Period.



irstupid said:

Going by your reasoning, Rosa Parks not standing up on the bus was not a story. I mean it was just an adult woman chosing to not stand up. What's so special about that. I choose not to stand up hundreds of times a day.

 

NightlyPoe said:
SpokenTruth said:

Leaf, you're still staring it. It's highlighting a simple fact...children are disobeying their parents decisions regarding vaccinations.  And before you get all semantic on me, child also refers offspring regardless of age.

Yes, I'm staring at the leaf.  The topic is about the leaf.  You want to talk about the forest and I'm directing you back to the leaf.

An adult ignoring their parent's advise is only remarkable in how unremarkable it is.  You want it to be more, but in the end, it's just an adult making his own decision.  You wish to mix it up with the underage version of the story, but the two are separated by the assumption of complete legal authority over himself that happened on the day he turned 18.  I'm not sure why you insist on putting the two together and insisting so hard that there is any legitimacy for why this person should for the second time in a month, be all over my news feed for days on end.

A woman not standing up in the bus is even less remarkable. And yes, I know exactly what followed after that. But still, that incident itself wouldn't be noteworthy by your standards.

Hence why SpokenTruth tells you you're missing the big picture. He's one case in an entire movement to get vaccinated despite their anti-vaxxer's background. But you try to make it a non-issue and saying there's nothing remarkable about it. Getting vaccinated is indeed not remarkable, doing so while your parents and relatives have called it the devil's work (or something across those lines) and just being one out of many with a similar background however is noteworthy. But all you see is that single case and nothing else. It's as if you would concentrate on a single dead soldier and trying to argue that there's no war happening despite hundreds dying every day on the field.



NightlyPoe said:
SpokenTruth said:

You are isolating a leaf and ignoring the forest.

Correct.  I'm highlighting an example of journalistic malpractice.  I'm not highlighting a forest or litigating vaccination like many (most actually) are doing here.

Your examples were about minors.  That is an ongoing issue.  Having a 16-year-old advocate speaking out about not being able to get vaccinated would be a story.  An adult, however, is not.  I'm not sure what the difficulty is in all this.  One is a crashing of parental rights and underage youths control of their own bodies and health.

The other is just an adult going to the doctor.

Have you read the story? 

I read at least one of the articles abotu this situation when it came out. Don't know if the ones in the OP state what I read, but in the article I read it talked about how his younger brother is trying to figure out a way to get vaccinated himself. Seeing as his younger brother is not yet 18, he can not do so without his parents permission. 

So is that a good enough story for you? He is 17 or younger at least, maybe even the perfect 16 you mention. Point is, he wants to get vaccinated and can not, due to his parents. Hell if he was a girl, he could get an abortion at his age without his parents permission, but he can not vaccinate himself.