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Why do people get upset by OPTIONAL difficult assists?

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I find it that making games too easy for the casuals diminishes the achievement of games being finished. I guess its more the old school vs modern gamers.
Games like Battletoads on NES could only be finished by those worthy of the challenge. These days, gamers can adjust the difficulty to make games easier, like on Rares Replay with the rewind feature. Now anyone can finish it and the challenge is no longer there.
It really all depends on the game i guess. It doesnt bother me but i can see why this affects some gamers. It was an achievement to finish a hard game, adjustable difficulty assists changes that method.
Imagin if Donkey Kong Arcade or Pac-Man back in the 70s had optional assists and difficulties? It would have ruined the games.

For me personally,  World of Warcraft is a perfect example. At launch aka Vanilla, WoW was a game of skill and survival of the fittest. It showed no mercy to new comers. It had its charm and built its popularity because of many reasons. Modern WoW is casual friendly and requires little to no skill to level or obtain raiding spots with the exception of Mythic Raids which is hard as balls. The modern game isn't as loved anymore due to anyone can pick it up and be good, and the lack of effort to achieve goals demishinishes the very thing that made WoW what it was.

Last edited by Azzanation - on 21 December 2018

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DonFerrari said:
omarct said:

You are being a hypocrite here. How is that any different than death and difficulty being a part of the souls experience?

Seems like you haven't read much on his posts. He is totally admitting he is being elitist on Fire Emblem and accepting that it contradicts what he think about Souls.

Well you cant have your cake and eat it too. You can't say well some specific games that I like shouldn't have easier modes but those games I do not like or care for, should have easier modes. Again this goes back to the reasoning behind this whole argument being extremely selfish and self centered, "I want to play this game so it should be changed to accommodate my needs".



Azzanation said:

I find it that making games too easy for the casuals diminishes the achievement of games being finished. I guess its more the old school vs modern gamers.
Games like Battletoads on NES could only be finished by those worthy of the challenge. These days, gamers can adjust the difficulty to make games easier, like on Rares Replay with the rewind feature. Now anyone can finish it and the challenge is no longer there.
It really all depends on the game i guess. It doesnt bother me but i can see why this affects some gamers. It was an achievement to finish a hard game, adjustable difficulty assists changes that method.
Imagin if Donkey Kong Arcade or Pac-Man back in the 70s had optional assists and difficulties? It would have ruined the games.

For me personally,  World of Warcraft is a perfect example. At launch aka Vanilla, WoW was a game of skill and survival of the fittest. It showed no mercy to new comers. It had its charm and built its popularity because of many reasons. Modern WoW is casual friendly and requires little to no skill to level or obtain raiding spots with the exception of Mythic Raids which is hard as balls. The modern game isn't as loved anymore due to anyone can pick it up and be good, and the lack of effort to achieve goals demishinishes the very thing that made WoW what it was.

Here's an example how optional easy modes can add greatly to arcade games
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-12-21-ketsui-deathtiny-review-arcade-perfected

I enjoyed Nex Machina on easy first which inspired me to get better and up the difficulty. It was only available at the intended difficulty I would never have bothered to learn how to play the game. WoW was very easy from the start, yet I came from Everquest. WoW won us over as Everquest became more inaccessible if you didn't have time to gather raid gear to continue. What made WoW was the ability to play it with just 2 people due to the easy difficulty.

I have finally been enjoying Donkey Kong on the snes mini thanks to the rewind feature. Some of those kart levels had me give up long ago, now I finally got to play the rest of the game. Sure it would not work in actual arcades as those are designed to make money out of retries. No need for that anymore.



SvennoJ said:

Here's an example how optional easy modes can add greatly to arcade games

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-12-21-ketsui-deathtiny-review-arcade-perfected

I enjoyed Nex Machina on easy first which inspired me to get better and up the difficulty. It was only available at the intended difficulty I would never have bothered to learn how to play the game. WoW was very easy from the start, yet I came from Everquest. WoW won us over as Everquest became more inaccessible if you didn't have time to gather raid gear to continue. What made WoW was the ability to play it with just 2 people due to the easy difficulty.

I have finally been enjoying Donkey Kong on the snes mini thanks to the rewind feature. Some of those kart levels had me give up long ago, now I finally got to play the rest of the game. Sure it would not work in actual arcades as those are designed to make money out of retries. No need for that anymore.

If you think Vanilla WoW was easy than you would laugh at current WoW. Games need a challenging edge. Due to WoWs simplicity it has lost majority of its supporters. Case in point, Blizzard opted to bring in the casuals by simplifying WoW and the game went downhill.

As for me, modern DK on SNES doesnt appeal to me anymore due to that fact. I guess its good for those looking for a quick win. It all comes down to the game, some games benefit while some games fall with these methods.

Last edited by Azzanation - on 21 December 2018

omarct said:
DonFerrari said:

Seems like you haven't read much on his posts. He is totally admitting he is being elitist on Fire Emblem and accepting that it contradicts what he think about Souls.

Well you cant have your cake and eat it too. You can't say well some specific games that I like shouldn't have easier modes but those games I do not like or care for, should have easier modes. Again this goes back to the reasoning behind this whole argument being extremely selfish and self centered, "I want to play this game so it should be changed to accommodate my needs".

He isn't asking for having it both ways. He is just accepting that he is wrong for felling different for a particular game he fells very attached to it and how it is played. Which is similar to how some few on DS, but the guy accepts he is wrong.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

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Azzanation said:

If you think Vanilla WoW was easy than you would laugh at current WoW. Games need a challenging edge. Due to WoWs simplicity it has lost majority of its supporters. Case in point, Blizzard opted to bring in the casuals by simplifying WoW and the game went downhill.

As for me, modern DK on SNES doesnt appeal to me anymore due to that fact. I guess its good for those looking for a quick win. It all comes down to the game, some games benefit while some games fall with these methods.

It' not looking for a quick win. It's being able to temporarily use assists or lower difficulty to get past a frustrating no fun obstacle (like a mine cart level) to enjoy more of the game. I gave up on Zelda skyward sword as I didn't want to do the same battle again and again with cut scenes and crap. The rest of the game was awesome, not that boss fight in the pit for the 3rd time.



SvennoJ said:

It' not looking for a quick win. It's being able to temporarily use assists or lower difficulty to get past a frustrating no fun obstacle (like a mine cart level) to enjoy more of the game. I gave up on Zelda skyward sword as I didn't want to do the same battle again and again with cut scenes and crap. The rest of the game was awesome, not that boss fight in the pit for the 3rd time.

My point of view is different here. I see games designed around there difficulty. Some games even mention that the best way to play them are on the harder modes. Can you imagine a gamer who plays a game on easy when its meant to be played on hard where the A.I shines and after that gamer beats the game on easy, than comes out and says the game was average because he never played it the way the game was intended. 

I finished all the DK games on the SNES, the satisfaction of beating them all was amazing. In fact I finished Battletoads on the NES a long time ago and I felt like the king of gamers because only a couple of my friends could have completed the game at the time. I refinished Battletoads on Rare's Replay and aside from replaying such a legendary game, my satisfaction for completing it with the cheat of rewinding the game dropped immensely, plus just about every other friend of mine was able to finish it as well. The challenge of completely games as an option can ruin the experience for me.

It still comes down to the game. I am playing Ashen atm and I am quite enjoying it. Every achievement I earn and my friends earn feel like we deserve it. Rather than seeing everyone rush and finish the game and obtaining all the achievements because they are playing the game on easy mode. That's just how I feel.



The existence of these baby mode training wheels (in an era of already very easy games) feel as anathema to my gaming spirit as in-game purchases in a game that isn't F2P. Nothing will move me on that front.

However, I just bought Mario Kart 8 for my niece & nephew as a gift. The selling point? Well, besides it being a damn good game my 9yo niece will enjoy, it had the "Jesus, take the wheel" mode so my 3yp nephew will also be able to participate.

So...I guess my point is I will never like these things existing, but I won't be harassing Nintendo and whoever else for including this stuff. Considering the aisle with Nintendo stuff in Best Buy was 25% baby toys (like super-size mega blox & wooden puzzles with knob handles on the pieces) I've come to terms with the idea that Nintendo is aiming for a very wide audience, and the youngest are an audience they cater to far better than Sony & MS.



Azzanation said:

SvennoJ said:

It' not looking for a quick win. It's being able to temporarily use assists or lower difficulty to get past a frustrating no fun obstacle (like a mine cart level) to enjoy more of the game. I gave up on Zelda skyward sword as I didn't want to do the same battle again and again with cut scenes and crap. The rest of the game was awesome, not that boss fight in the pit for the 3rd time.

My point of view is different here. I see games designed around there difficulty. Some games even mention that the best way to play them are on the harder modes. Can you imagine a gamer who plays a game on easy when its meant to be played on hard where the A.I shines and after that gamer beats the game on easy, than comes out and says the game was average because he never played it the way the game was intended. 

I finished all the DK games on the SNES, the satisfaction of beating them all was amazing. In fact I finished Battletoads on the NES a long time ago and I felt like the king of gamers because only a couple of my friends could have completed the game at the time. I refinished Battletoads on Rare's Replay and aside from replaying such a legendary game, my satisfaction for completing it with the cheat of rewinding the game dropped immensely, plus just about every other friend of mine was able to finish it as well. The challenge of completely games as an option can ruin the experience for me.

It still comes down to the game. I am playing Ashen atm and I am quite enjoying it. Every achievement I earn and my friends earn feel like we deserve it. Rather than seeing everyone rush and finish the game and obtaining all the achievements because they are playing the game on easy mode. That's just how I feel.

There are different sections in games requiring different reaction times and/or memorization skills. There is no such thing as designing a game around one set difficulty for all. Besides who cares if they think it was average on easy, they would probably say it was shit if they got stuck and went to play something else instead. I would never recommend a game with only hard difficulty level to friends that only play occasionally.

Achievements have ruined gaming imo. Unlocking behind the scenes footage or concept art was at least something to strive for. The only thing they are good for is to check how far a friend is so you don't spoil the plot when talking about the game.

I don't mind hard games, I played Everquest for 4 or 5 years as an enchanter, hardest class in the game. I love the online competition in GT Sport and nowadays always start from the back without qualifying to see how far I can get through the field while avoiding all the crazy drivers online. However when I play a single player game I would like to have the option to skip bits (or make them easier) that I do not enjoy.

It depends on the game. Story driven, I don't care much for difficulty. Platformers, bring it on as long as the checkpoints are frequent and there is no loading between retries. Everyone has their own preferences. I grew up with PC gaming where difficulty is meaningless as everything can be modded anyway. I already altered the run-time library in civ.exe with a hex editor in '91 to re-balance the game for different challenges. Everquest was the first game where difficulty was locked as it was all online. Yet that ultimately made me abandon the game, no time to keep up with raids anymore to continue.

Anyway, if it's optional you can still beat it on the hardest difficulty level to feel satisfied and rub it in your friends faces when they only complete it on a lower difficulty. At least you can talk about the ending!



0D0 said:

It's the arrogant NES generation players.

 

(I'm not saying all of them are arrogant, but saying that there's an arrogant bunch among the NES generation players)

I’m one of those.

 

1. All games should not be for everyone

2. Most modern games are allready way to easy even on hardest difficulty

3. Instant gratification people will never understand this