Forums - Politics Discussion - Can the Rape Culture in the West be Reduced with Guns?

OhNoYouDont said:
o_O.Q said:

 

"Even if we take the study prima facie it does NOT support your idea of "rape culture" which would be a predominant view"

a culture does not have to be the predominant view of the society... west indians for example have a particular type of culture that differs from most of the society but they are still a part of the society

 

"Problem two for you is when the question is presented as a rape shown here:

When asked whether they would act on “intentions to rape a woman” with the same assurances they wouldn’t face consequences, just 13.6 percent of participants agreed."

...which was the point

"But, when the researchers actually used the word “rape” in their question, those numbers dropped much lower — suggesting that many college men don’t associate the act of forcing a woman to have sex with them with the crime of committing rape."

the point being that the men did not consider coercing a woman to have sex to be a crime/rape... how did you not understand that?

 

"Problem three is trying to compare India to any Western culture at all as if it were an analogous setting. "

which was not the main point of this thread... the point was simply that women who face a more severe problem with rape in indian have looked to arming themselves as a solution and i'm asking if that may be a viable solution for the problems with the rape culture in the west

 

"It's just insane to me that you cannot even be bothered to take a step backward from your intransigence to see things objectively as they are."

and what would be the objective way of viewing things in this context?


ah i remember you, you're that guy that posted all of that nonsense on my wall because you couldn't understand the connection between technology and waste... how are you man?

LOL here we go again.

Let's start with your own words (from OP):

“Rape Culture is an environment in which rape is prevalent and in which sexual violence against women is normalized and excused in the media and popular culture. "

Show me where the act of rape is normalized and excused in the west. Oh instead you cite a study which actually establishes the exact opposite of this. 

Objectivity would lead to the rather abundantly obvious conclusion that rape culture doesn't exist in the west champ. Are you going to start talking about the wage gap next, Mr. SJW?

Did you learn the difference between intrinsic and extrinsic yet? Obviously not if you're still clinging to a rather asinine perspective about technology, Luddite. What a walking contradiction...

 

"Rape Culture is an environment in which rape is prevalent and in which sexual violence against women is normalized and excused in the media and popular culture. "

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/booknews/9459779/50-Shades-of-Grey-is-best-selling-book-of-all-time.html

well as an example the best selling book of all time besting the final entry in the harry potter series was 50 shades of grey in 2012 and that may probably still be the case

https://endsexualexploitation.org/fiftyshadesgrey/

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/aug/13/science/la-sci-sn-fifty-shades-of-grey-sexual-emotional-abuse-20130812

a book widely criticised for promoting sexual abuse and violence

 

arguably some of the most popular musical artists like eminem, 50 cent, etc are known for lyrics that promote violence against women

 

"You and your husband have a fight

One of you tries to grab a knife
And during the struggle he accidentally gets his Adams apple sliced
(No!)
And while this is goin' on
His son just woke up and he just walks in
She panics and he gets his throat cut
(Oh my God!)
So now they both dead and you slash your own throat
So now it's double homicide and suicide with no note
I should have known better when you started to act weird
We could've, hey! where you going? get back here!
You can't run from me Kim
It's just us, nobody else!
You're only making this harder on yourself
Ha! ha! got you!
(Ah!)
Ha! go ahead yell!
Here I'll scream with you!
Ah somebody help!
Don't you get it bitch, no one can hear you?
Now shut the fuck up and get what's comin' to you
You were supposed to love me
Now bleed! bitch bleed!
Bleed! bitch bleed! bleed!
So long, bitch you did me so wrong
I don't want to go on
Living in this world without you"
the porn industry and the modelling industry have been widely criticised for objectifying women

 https://fightthenewdrug.org/how-watching-porn-erodes-views-of-women/

 

and i could go and on and on... where have you been living? under a rock?

 

" Oh instead you cite a study which actually establishes the exact opposite of this. "

But, when the researchers actually used the word “rape” in their question, those numbers dropped much lower — suggesting that many college men don’t associate the act of forcing a woman to have sex with them with the crime of committing rape."

the point being that the men did not consider coercing a woman to have sex to be a crime/rape... how did you not understand that?

 

"Objectivity would lead to the rather abundantly obvious conclusion that rape culture doesn't exist in the west champ."

well based on objective standards such as the types of media we consume that is debatable as i have demonstrated

 

"Did you learn the difference between intrinsic and extrinsic yet? Obviously not if you're still clinging to a rather asinine perspective about technology, Luddite."

have you been able to think of a form of technology that does not produce waste? i'm still waiting on you... its been a few months now and counting

Last edited by o_O.Q - on 16 April 2018

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i'd go with making prostitution legal



o_O.Q said:
 

arguably some of the most popular musical artists like eminem, 50 cent, etc are known for lyrics that promote violence against women

"You and your husband have a fight

One of you tries to grab a knife
And during the struggle he accidentally gets his Adams apple sliced
(No!)
And while this is goin' on
His son just woke up and he just walks in
She panics and he gets his throat cut
(Oh my God!)
So now they both dead and you slash your own throat
So now it's double homicide and suicide with no note
I should have known better when you started to act weird
We could've, hey! where you going? get back here!
You can't run from me Kim
It's just us, nobody else!
You're only making this harder on yourself
Ha! ha! got you!
(Ah!)
Ha! go ahead yell!
Here I'll scream with you!
Ah somebody help!
Don't you get it bitch, no one can hear you?
Now shut the fuck up and get what's comin' to you
You were supposed to love me
Now bleed! bitch bleed!
Bleed! bitch bleed! bleed!
So long, bitch you did me so wrong
I don't want to go on
Living in this world without you"

Dude...those lyrics are the exact opposite of promoting violence against women. The point is to bring attention to that problem, not glorify it. Seriously, only extreme bias will make you not able to see this.



This thread is such click bait.

India is not the west and the number of cases and how they are perceived is vastly different. OP is just trying to push his ridiculous agendas as usual.



o_O.Q said:
OhNoYouDont said:

LOL here we go again.

Let's start with your own words (from OP):

“Rape Culture is an environment in which rape is prevalent and in which sexual violence against women is normalized and excused in the media and popular culture. "

Show me where the act of rape is normalized and excused in the west. Oh instead you cite a study which actually establishes the exact opposite of this. 

Objectivity would lead to the rather abundantly obvious conclusion that rape culture doesn't exist in the west champ. Are you going to start talking about the wage gap next, Mr. SJW?

Did you learn the difference between intrinsic and extrinsic yet? Obviously not if you're still clinging to a rather asinine perspective about technology, Luddite. What a walking contradiction...

 

"Rape Culture is an environment in which rape is prevalent and in which sexual violence against women is normalized and excused in the media and popular culture. "

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/booknews/9459779/50-Shades-of-Grey-is-best-selling-book-of-all-time.html

well as an example the best selling book of all time besting the final entry in the harry potter series was 50 shades of grey in 2012 and that may probably still be the case

https://endsexualexploitation.org/fiftyshadesgrey/

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/aug/13/science/la-sci-sn-fifty-shades-of-grey-sexual-emotional-abuse-20130812

a book widely criticised for promoting sexual abuse and violence

 

arguably some of the most popular musical artists like eminem, 50 cent, etc are known for lyrics that promote violence against women

 

"You and your husband have a fight

One of you tries to grab a knife
And during the struggle he accidentally gets his Adams apple sliced
(No!)
And while this is goin' on
His son just woke up and he just walks in
She panics and he gets his throat cut
(Oh my God!)
So now they both dead and you slash your own throat
So now it's double homicide and suicide with no note
I should have known better when you started to act weird
We could've, hey! where you going? get back here!
You can't run from me Kim
It's just us, nobody else!
You're only making this harder on yourself
Ha! ha! got you!
(Ah!)
Ha! go ahead yell!
Here I'll scream with you!
Ah somebody help!
Don't you get it bitch, no one can hear you?
Now shut the fuck up and get what's comin' to you
You were supposed to love me
Now bleed! bitch bleed!
Bleed! bitch bleed! bleed!
So long, bitch you did me so wrong
I don't want to go on
Living in this world without you"
the porn industry and the modelling industry have been widely criticised for objectifying women

 https://fightthenewdrug.org/how-watching-porn-erodes-views-of-women/

 

and i could go and on and on... where have you been living? under a rock?

 

" Oh instead you cite a study which actually establishes the exact opposite of this. "

But, when the researchers actually used the word “rape” in their question, those numbers dropped much lower — suggesting that many college men don’t associate the act of forcing a woman to have sex with them with the crime of committing rape."

the point being that the men did not consider coercing a woman to have sex to be a crime/rape... how did you not understand that?

 

"Objectivity would lead to the rather abundantly obvious conclusion that rape culture doesn't exist in the west champ."

well based on objective standards such as the types of media we consume that is debatable as i have demonstrated

 

"Did you learn the difference between intrinsic and extrinsic yet? Obviously not if you're still clinging to a rather asinine perspective about technology, Luddite."

have you been able to think of a form of technology that does not produce waste? i'm still waiting on you... its been a few months now and counting

I should not be surprised at the impotence of your sophistry and yet I am.

You demonstrate a fundamental misapprehension about what it means for something to be normalized as well as when causality is involved. Your examples that were an effort to produce support for your ideas instead promote your abject obliviousness to the topic and only further advances my point. A book depicting unsavory actions is no more causally linked to sexual exploitation as grand theft auto is to...well, grand theft auto. It's a resoundingly debunked idea and you would do well to take note.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/01/180116131317.htm

As to study, again you fail miserably at understanding the point. (Ignoratio elenchi fallacy)

Were rape normalized as is your claim, then the language would make no impact. Because it did have an impact, we can safely state that is it not the case that rape is normalized.

Will you learn this time or continue defending an absurdity? Judging from our last encounter I expect more red herrings and perhaps another statement about technology.

As to technologies which do not produce waste, you've apparently never heard of green technologies which is quite frankly shocking. Do you go outside ever?

Anyway, the argument was never about technology and waste. It was specifically about your claim that waste is intrinsic to technology, which is fundamentally incorrect as any waste would be a byproduct and thus extrinsic. So again I see you fail to grasp knowledge most children comprehend. 

 



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would it cut down on the girl who is walking down the road and is abducted and then raped... probably. Or even the cases where a female is isolated from a group and raped.

However a majority of rapes are people they know and in places they probably would not have the gun on them.

So it would cut down of some times of rape, but not get after the most pervasive types.



psn- tokila

add me, the more the merrier.

OhNoYouDont said:
o_O.Q said:

 

"Rape Culture is an environment in which rape is prevalent and in which sexual violence against women is normalized and excused in the media and popular culture. "

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/booknews/9459779/50-Shades-of-Grey-is-best-selling-book-of-all-time.html

well as an example the best selling book of all time besting the final entry in the harry potter series was 50 shades of grey in 2012 and that may probably still be the case

https://endsexualexploitation.org/fiftyshadesgrey/

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/aug/13/science/la-sci-sn-fifty-shades-of-grey-sexual-emotional-abuse-20130812

a book widely criticised for promoting sexual abuse and violence

 

arguably some of the most popular musical artists like eminem, 50 cent, etc are known for lyrics that promote violence against women

 

"You and your husband have a fight

One of you tries to grab a knife
And during the struggle he accidentally gets his Adams apple sliced
(No!)
And while this is goin' on
His son just woke up and he just walks in
She panics and he gets his throat cut
(Oh my God!)
So now they both dead and you slash your own throat
So now it's double homicide and suicide with no note
I should have known better when you started to act weird
We could've, hey! where you going? get back here!
You can't run from me Kim
It's just us, nobody else!
You're only making this harder on yourself
Ha! ha! got you!
(Ah!)
Ha! go ahead yell!
Here I'll scream with you!
Ah somebody help!
Don't you get it bitch, no one can hear you?
Now shut the fuck up and get what's comin' to you
You were supposed to love me
Now bleed! bitch bleed!
Bleed! bitch bleed! bleed!
So long, bitch you did me so wrong
I don't want to go on
Living in this world without you"
the porn industry and the modelling industry have been widely criticised for objectifying women

 https://fightthenewdrug.org/how-watching-porn-erodes-views-of-women/

 

and i could go and on and on... where have you been living? under a rock?

 

" Oh instead you cite a study which actually establishes the exact opposite of this. "

But, when the researchers actually used the word “rape” in their question, those numbers dropped much lower — suggesting that many college men don’t associate the act of forcing a woman to have sex with them with the crime of committing rape."

the point being that the men did not consider coercing a woman to have sex to be a crime/rape... how did you not understand that?

 

"Objectivity would lead to the rather abundantly obvious conclusion that rape culture doesn't exist in the west champ."

well based on objective standards such as the types of media we consume that is debatable as i have demonstrated

 

"Did you learn the difference between intrinsic and extrinsic yet? Obviously not if you're still clinging to a rather asinine perspective about technology, Luddite."

have you been able to think of a form of technology that does not produce waste? i'm still waiting on you... its been a few months now and counting

I should not be surprised at the impotence of your sophistry and yet I am.

You demonstrate a fundamental misapprehension about what it means for something to be normalized as well as when causality is involved. Your examples that were an effort to produce support for your ideas instead promote your abject obliviousness to the topic and only further advances my point. A book depicting unsavory actions is no more causally linked to sexual exploitation as grand theft auto is to...well, grand theft auto. It's a resoundingly debunked idea and you would do well to take note.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/01/180116131317.htm

As to study, again you fail miserably at understanding the point. (Ignoratio elenchi fallacy)

Were rape normalized as is your claim, then the language would make no impact. Because it did have an impact, we can safely state that is it not the case that rape is normalized.

Will you learn this time or continue defending an absurdity? Judging from our last encounter I expect more red herrings and perhaps another statement about technology.

As to technologies which do not produce waste, you've apparently never heard of green technologies which is quite frankly shocking. Do you go outside ever?

Anyway, the argument was never about technology and waste. It was specifically about your claim that waste is intrinsic to technology, which is fundamentally incorrect as any waste would be a byproduct and thus extrinsic. So again I see you fail to grasp knowledge most children comprehend. 

 

"It's a resoundingly debunked idea"

the notion that media has an impact on our behavior has been debunked? can you post some evidence of that?

 

"Were rape normalized as is your claim, then the language would make no impact."

behavior is what is being studied here... not language

the fact that they admit that they would coerce women into having sex with them is the problematic aspect of this study, not whether they responded differently based on the language

its kind of gross that you missed that point btw

 

"As to technologies which do not produce waste, you've apparently never heard of green technologies which is quite frankly shocking."

lmao green technologies do not produce waste?

ok narrow this down to one type and lets have a crack at this lol

 

"which is fundamentally incorrect as any waste would be a byproduct and thus extrinsic."

lmao we've been through this before and i can't believe that i apparently have to again

waste is a part of the essential nature of technology, meaning that its intrinsic to technology

maybe with green technology you'll finally be able to prove me wrong so name one type and we'll see what happens lol



Is this post a joke?



the-pi-guy said:

No one likes rape.  Conservatives don't like it.  Liberals don't like it.  


The problem is that people don't understand how rape happens, or even exactly what it is. 

Why people don't know what rape is:

There's a lot of instances where it's really hard to say what consent is.  If two drunk people have sex together, legally they are not in their right mind.  Legally they might not be able to consent.  Does that mean that they raped each other?  Does that mean that one raped the other?  Just based off those details, it's hard to say what the right answer is.  Maybe one of them drunkenly shoved the other into having sex, maybe it was consensual because they both agreed to it.  

There's also instances where someone is manipulated into having sex.  Or even blackmailed or something else.  

There's also a misunderstanding about why people dress up the way they do.  "Well, she dressed up sexily because she was looking for sex.  So clearly it was consensual."  Even though that's not how that works.  

 

People don't always understand how rape happens: 

Rape isn't always a kidnapping and being shoved against the bed. Sometimes it's a lady sleeping at a lifelong friend's house, and they creep into their room and stick their penis inside them while they're sleeping.

Sometimes, it's done by the "nice guy" who is taking her home one night after drinking (but actually being drugged), and takes advantage of the situation.  

Sometimes, it's being manipulated by someone.

 

Do we have a rape culture because people don't care about it?  No, but we do because people make excuses about what it is.  

I feel like you started out strong, but then gave three clear examples of rape under the pretense of being part of the grey area of rape.



Muda Muda Muda Muda Muda Muda!!!!


Arminillo said:
the-pi-guy said:

No one likes rape.  Conservatives don't like it.  Liberals don't like it.  


The problem is that people don't understand how rape happens, or even exactly what it is. 

Why people don't know what rape is:

There's a lot of instances where it's really hard to say what consent is.  If two drunk people have sex together, legally they are not in their right mind.  Legally they might not be able to consent.  Does that mean that they raped each other?  Does that mean that one raped the other?  Just based off those details, it's hard to say what the right answer is.  Maybe one of them drunkenly shoved the other into having sex, maybe it was consensual because they both agreed to it.  

There's also instances where someone is manipulated into having sex.  Or even blackmailed or something else.  

There's also a misunderstanding about why people dress up the way they do.  "Well, she dressed up sexily because she was looking for sex.  So clearly it was consensual."  Even though that's not how that works.  

 

People don't always understand how rape happens: 

Rape isn't always a kidnapping and being shoved against the bed. Sometimes it's a lady sleeping at a lifelong friend's house, and they creep into their room and stick their penis inside them while they're sleeping.

Sometimes, it's done by the "nice guy" who is taking her home one night after drinking (but actually being drugged), and takes advantage of the situation.  

Sometimes, it's being manipulated by someone.

 

Do we have a rape culture because people don't care about it?  No, but we do because people make excuses about what it is.  

I feel like you started out strong, but then gave three clear examples of rape under the pretense of being part of the grey area of rape.

The only part of my post that was about a grey area was the bold.

The rest is clear examples of rape, but a few of them a lot of people disagree about them being "clear" examples.