Forums - General Discussion - 78 year old arrested for murder of burglar, *Update: Cleared of all charge but still faces strife,

78 year olds self defence stabbing was

Justified. 26 74.29%
 
Unjustified. 3 8.57%
 
Unsure. 6 17.14%
 
Comments, other, me no give a shit... 0 0.00%
 
Total:35

I'm rather confused as to why he is being arrested here, it'll be interested to see if he is convicted and sentenced. British  and many other western countries need to update their laws in this regard especially in home defence cases.

 

http://www.thejournal.ie/london-stabbing-3940100-Apr2018/?amp=1

 

In Ireland we have had a few wins for the freedoms of people defending their selves, family and property in recent years with some clear prescientant made for the future but this could go anyway in the ever regressing UK.



 

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I think, it would require a reasonable threat to his life to justify the kill - depending on the details of what happened, I do believe that this should be illegal. Not a murder charge, but a charge nonetheless - perhaps a fine would do. A burglar is highly unlikely to attempt to kill/physically harm a cooperative victim, since that's not in his interest - if nothing more than as a security measure for the homeowner himself, engaging in fights against the thief should be discouraged.



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Perhaps manslaughter



Pinkie_pie said:
Perhaps manslaughter

Perhaps no punishment at all. The 38 year old made the choice to put his freedom and life in jeopardy the moment he choose to burglarize the 78 year olds home. He should not be prosecuted for reacting to a home invasion, he is the victim. He didn't choose to be put in that situation however he dead man did.



 

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palou said:

I think, it would require a reasonable threat to his life to justify the kill - depending on the details of what happened, I do believe that this should be illegal. Not a murder charge, but a charge nonetheless - perhaps a fine would do. A burglar is highly unlikely to attempt to kill/physically harm a cooperative victim, since that's not in his interest - if nothing more than as a security measure for the homeowner himself, engaging in fights against the thief should be discouraged.

Excuse me, but if someone breaks into my home, why should I rely on what's supposedly in the criminal's interest and trust him to act rationally? The criminal is risking life and limb for the sake of stealing, at least; his actions already suggest to me that he has a poor grasp of what's in his interest, and rational action. He has further established that he's has no respect for me or my rights. His actions are careless, dangerous and malevolent. How can I trust such a person at that point -- and how can I risk my family's lives?



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He was forced into the kitchen at screwdriver point, so for me thats basically false imprisonment, trespassing and breaking and entering. As the criminal was threating him with a screwdriver, the victim can lawfully kill the criminal if he felt his or some one elses life was in imminent danger. Of course its up to the defense to proof that and vice versa, but yeah i would be suprised if CPS pursue this case.



Nogamez said:
He was forced into the kitchen at screwdriver point, so for me thats basically false imprisonment, trespassing and breaking and entering. As the criminal was threating him with a screwdriver, the victim can lawfully kill the criminal if he felt his or some one elses life was in imminent danger. Of course its up to the defense to proof that and vice versa, but yeah i would be suprised if CPS pursue this case.

You never know with UK law these days. It could go anyway.



 

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donathos said:
palou said:

I think, it would require a reasonable threat to his life to justify the kill - depending on the details of what happened, I do believe that this should be illegal. Not a murder charge, but a charge nonetheless - perhaps a fine would do. A burglar is highly unlikely to attempt to kill/physically harm a cooperative victim, since that's not in his interest - if nothing more than as a security measure for the homeowner himself, engaging in fights against the thief should be discouraged.

Excuse me, but if someone breaks into my home, why should I rely on what's supposedly in the criminal's interest and trust him to act rationally? The criminal is risking life and limb for the sake of stealing, at least; his actions already suggest to me that he has a poor grasp of what's in his interest, and rational action. He has further established that he's has no respect for me or my rights. His actions are careless, dangerous and malevolent. How can I trust such a person at that point -- and how can I risk my family's lives?

If you have family in the house, that's fundamentally a different question. However, what concerns just yourself - if you don't do anything, the chances are extremely slim that the thief will actively try to kill you (there are over 300k burglaries in the UK per year - less than a hundred result in a death), but *engaging* the thief will *assure* you a fight. How does that seem like a good idea?



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John2290 said:
Nogamez said:
He was forced into the kitchen at screwdriver point, so for me thats basically false imprisonment, trespassing and breaking and entering. As the criminal was threating him with a screwdriver, the victim can lawfully kill the criminal if he felt his or some one elses life was in imminent danger. Of course its up to the defense to proof that and vice versa, but yeah i would be suprised if CPS pursue this case.

You never know with UK law these days. It could go anyway.

Unless the laws that are applicable in this case have changed lately, it's got nothing to do with "these days". You'll always have cases that are in a grey area, in fact one of the most important duties of the justice system is to cover those grey area cases. If all cases were clear cut, black and white, trials wouldn't be a thing.



It's a toughie, considering the age of the man and if he was all by himself he might of been too weak or frightened to anything other than attack the burglar with a weapon. I think it was justified imprisonment is too far for this scenario in my opinion.

Last edited by Green098 - on 05 April 2018