Forums - Politics Discussion - Why is the United States so segregated?

I'm sure the President and his demeanor doesn't help.



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DonFerrari said:

VAMatt said:
As an American, I take a bit of offense to this OP. My experience shows me that we're, by and large, much less racist than the average citzen of earth.

I've had a fair amount of experience with European and Asian cultures. Compared to them, Americans are far, far less racist. Its not even comparable.

I've had a bit of experience with South and Central American cultures. While I agree that those cultures tend to ignore race more than Americans do, I think the difference is relatively small.

I have essentially no basis for comparison to Africans or Aussies.

You could read the OP.

I did.  Maybe you should read my comment.  



"In this text, I used the word "racism" meaning "the act of diving people into races". It was the best word I could find to describe it."

Unfortunately you fell into a bit of a trap - in western cultures the term has been redefined so minorities can't be racist (that requires power & privilege). And even if they do happen to discriminate based on skin color, they're just "colorist." Higher education is basically required for many people here in the US to get a job with a decent income, and getting a degree requires both going heavily in debt (probably to the government) and taking a number of social justice courses, where this sort of teaching springs forth. And from these courses aspiring young minds learn how white people are racist, denying it is racist, and ignoring race is also racist.

So yeah, if it seems we're obsessed with race, a good starting point as to understanding why is how most kids are being taught to think that way these days. And from there it spreads to mass media, so even those who haven't had formal classes get exposed to it.



Slade6alpha said:
I'm sure the President and his demeanor doesn't help.

Actually, there were more racially motivated violent acts during Obama's presidency than there were at any time since the 1960's. Trump haters are going to blame EVERYTHING on Trump, no matter how ridiculous it it sounds. It's just what haters do.



First of all, the US is probably one of the least racist nations on earth. If the US was as racist as a lot of people claim, then the country could not exist in it's current state. It should also be noted that most of the people who voted for America's first black President were white voters. Second, most people nowadays simply do not care about race. In fact, I would go further and say that the majority of Americans are sick of talking about it and just want to be left alone. Third, the most racist people out there are usually the ones who can't shut up about it. Whenever they're called out on it, they usually reply by saying "I can't be racist because...blah blah blah." They love double standards. They also love redefining the definition of the word racist in order for it to fit their narrative. Fourthly, the reason we have black neighborhoods is because a long time ago, many black moved into the inner city and stayed where they are. It's also a part of community culture that goes back a long way. Long ago, at least up until half a century ago, most people in the cities lived around others who they identified with the most. German immigrants lived in German neighborhoods. Italian immigrants lived in Italian neighborhoods. Irish immigrants lived in Irish neighborhoods. Chinese immigrants lived in Chinese neighborhoods. However, this changed over time and that leads to what I'm going to say next. America DID have a problem with racism a long time ago. This is when many blacks moved into the cities while many whites and Asians moved out and into the newly constructed suburbs. That's when the German, Irish, and Italian neighborhoods evaporated in many cities. Some of these neighborhoods still exist, which is where you get Little Italy and China Town from.

If you want to go into detail about why the inner cities are so bad, then I should save that for another post.



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Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
DonFerrari said:

You know that the more you talk about races and racism more conscious people are and keep it?

And reading OP would help.

I'm not sure how you would come to the conclusion that I did not read the OP as I am directly addressing it.

Here is the Original Post for Reference and the reference in my post addressing it in Bold:

LuccaCardoso1 said: 

I've been thinking about this for the last few days, but I couldn't get to a conclusion to why (most) people from the United States are so racist. Racism seems to be embedded in US's culture. I say that as a Brazilian that has already lived in the US and experiences the country's culture almost daily.

Addressed by First Sentence and second paragraph two some degree.


Brazil and the United States have very similar historical backgrounds. Both were inhabited by natives before the Europeans arrived in the first half of the 16th century and have a history of slavery, where in both countries it was abolished in the second half of the 19th century. Today, however, while Brazil is known for its miscegenation of natives, africans, europeans and asians, the United States seems to have mostly maintained the division that existed before the Emancipation Proclamation.

Addressed by third paragraph. Examples of explicit institutionalized  racism (US ONLY) following and undercurrent of general class-ism include: Jim Crow (Segregation), Internment Camps, Racial Profiling (Stop and Frisk), Tuskegee syphilis, Philando Castile (and related shootings). While determining if the latter is racial motivated can be primarily subjective, that distinction is meaningless when considered from the perspective of coming from the institution itself i.e training.

For example: In Brazil, there are no such things as "black neighborhoods". Yes, in some places some ethnicities are more prevalent (that has to do with the lack of support the government gave to the ex-slaves once slavery was abolished and the recency of that event), but no one thinks of these places as "where black people live". There are no words that can only be used by one ethnicity, such as the N word in English. Also, "white culture" and "black culture" aren't really a thing. While rap in the US is mostly viewed as black culture, in Brazil it's simply culture. Some of the most important samba and funk singers are black, but that doesn't mean it's black culture. We see it as Brazilian culture.

Also addressed by the third paragraph. Institutional effects cannot be reversed to a significant degree in a reasonable amount of time by simply removing the cause. It needs to be counteracted. For example, a zoning law that creates a minority ghetto being removed will not result in integration or diversification on its own. You might have a couple of people who pull themselves out of poverty and then observers will ignore the causes of the condition in the first place.

I don't know, Brazil just seems much more integrated and patriotic than the United States in that regard (yes, I just said the United States is not very patriotic in a way).

I'm not aware of Brazil's history or governmental structure, but it may be the case that since the US is a federation of states, that integration can be limited to each state's individual history, culture, and governance.

This also has nothing to do with Democrats and Republicans. It has nothing to do with left or right-wing. It affects both sides. You know, all of those BuzzFeed videos such as "White Parents Who Raise Black Children" or "Things Our Black Moms Would Say" only exist because they think of black and white people as being fundamentally and culturally different. In Brazil, a video titled "Things Our Black Moms Would Say" would make no sense, because being black has nothing to do with the way you act.

I'm not calling you racist for being American. You are not guilty for doing things the only way you know to do them. I'm just trying to show you a different vision of the world and hopefully make you reflect about it.

EDIT: In this text, I used the word "racism" meaning "the act of diving people into races". It was the best word I could find to describe it.

@DonFerrari If your suggesting that I did not read the OP because of this EDIT, do you not think it likely that the OP was edited after I posted.
Irregardless, "the act of dividing people into races" is simply categorization. It is recognizing the differences between people. Even race is just a social construct to describe a group of characteristics that people share. For instance, it is not racist to say people of Jewish Descent are more likely to get Cancer or even Black People tend to have lower than average IQs. 
Intent is what makes something racist, so in the latter example it is why you said such a thing (In this case, nearly every intent is racist, I personally can't think of a way other than here in this very post that isn't racist. [Intent is difficult to prove and subjective itself, so it could in fact be interpreted as racist anyway lol])
As a result, that categorization "the act of dividing people into races" is universal its not any more inherent in one country or another. You wouldn't even notice it to be able to describe it as racist unless that intent was behind it.

TL:DR: You are describing categorization for a lack of a better term, which is useful and necessary when describing a large subset of things. Noticing differences is natural, not racist. It is action as a result of that observation that describes an (intention/motivation) as racist. And this can be generalized to any us versus them behavior such as sexism, class-ism, caste systems (Advanced Class-ism), marxism, communism, age-ism, etc.

Racism is so noticeable in the US, for the same reason that Sexism is so widespread; people pretend like it doesn't exist.

 

Sweeping it under the rug doesn't resolve it for the myriad of reasons stated above such as the persistent effects and stereotypes, nor will it stop people from noticing differences. The fact that my skin is darker and that I can notice that difference is not racist or aberrant from normal human nature, its only when I make a judgement, action, or belief motivated by that difference that it can and usually is racist.

The Edit certainly help people that failed to interpret his points on the whole OP as it was much more as dividing in races than prejudice and harm towards black people. So the posting before edit mitigate but doesn't really cover all of it.

And the division in races on medical or scientific studies is something (and since there is positive evidence of difference in the DNA and physiology then it is valid to keep verifying these differences) but he is talking much more about the need of affirmation and segregation that not only white people do, but most ethinicities in USA.

VAMatt said:
DonFerrari said:

You could read the OP.

I did.  Maybe you should read my comment.  

I read your comment, and you are reading it just as if the OP wasn't talking about ethnicity segregation instead of racial law.



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"And if any US citizen is living in "Horrible" conditions, it IS NOT BECAUSE OF THEIR SKIN COLOR! "

But it is, kind of. Look at history. Not for everyone, but for many.

Last edited by PSintend0 - on 12 March 2018

PSintend0 said:

"And if any US citizen is living in "Horrible" conditions, it IS NOT BECAUSE OF THEIR SKIN COLOR! "

But it is, kind of. Look at history. Not for everyone, but for many.

There absolutely, definitely is a historical racism issue that still effects black Americans (and, to a less extent, other minorities) today.  No question about it.  Just like there are still rich Rockefellers riding off of the money their family made 6-8 generations ago, so to are there poor people stuck in the lack of education/poverty spiral.   

With that said, that fact, in and of itself, says nothing about racism in the USA today.  



DonFerrari said:

The Edit certainly help people that failed to interpret his points on the whole OP as it was much more as dividing in races than prejudice and harm towards black people. So the posting before edit mitigate but doesn't really cover all of it.

And the division in races on medical or scientific studies is something (and since there is positive evidence of difference in the DNA and physiology then it is valid to keep verifying these differences) but he is talking much more about the need of affirmation and segregation that not only white people do, but most ethinicities in USA.

As we currently understand it racial and ethnographic differences are no more scientifically significant than socioeconomic differences. So like the idea of Rich and Poor, race and ethnicity are social constructs albeit with apparent differences. These constructs are useful for categorization but with regard to what the OP is claiming, this need for racial affirmation, I'm arguing that this is a result of the differences grouped together to form racial classes misused as justification for amoral behavior.

Once again my favorite parallel to this are Caste System's. The idea of a Caste is even more tenuous than that of typical class-ism and yet a large part of Indian society and culture was built around it till recently. Many more rural parts of India have that exact same affirmation and segregation but based on Caste rather than Race.



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That's a pretty loaded question.