Forums - Movies Discussion - Everything that didn't make sense in The Last Jedi (Spoilers)

This is just a list of things that didn't make sense to me from a writing perspective. And I think part of it has to do with Rian Johnson not being interested in building on what JJ Abrams set up for him in Force Awakens.

If you disagree or think I forgot to mention something, feel free to tell me why/what.

- The map to Luke Skywalker

A portion of the map was given to Lor San Tekka by Luke, but the film doesn't explain why Luke left it with him. So we are left to draw our own conclusions. No one aside from Luke (who does not have bad intentions) should be interested in finding the Jedi temple, so it was presumed by seemingly most people that he left it as a way to find him in the event of a crisis.

In The Last Jedi we find out that Luke not only did not want to be found, but he refused to help even after Leia being the one pleading with him, and after hearing that his best friend had been killed by Kylo.
Which leads me to the next point:

- The treatment of Luke's character

Before the film premiere, Mark Hamill said in a few interviews that he "fundamentally disagreed with virtually everything that Rian had written for his character."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOm84p4FxTY

Later on after seeing the film he did add that he changed his mind. Whether that was because Disney excecs were breathing down his neck, or he didn't want to influence fans, or he really did change his mind, I don't know but it's interesting to hear his initial thoughts none the less.

But in The last Jedi we see a Luke that is nothing like the Luke from previous films. And I had a very hard time buying that Luke would do these things.
The biggest thing here is that Luke reveals that he for a moment decided to murder his nephew, while he was sleeping, because he sensed powerful darkness within him. The only child of his sister and his best friend, whom he had known since he was a baby. The same Luke Skywalker who refused to give up on even Darth Vader, a father he never knew, because he believed there was some good in him, to the point where he surrendered himself to the enemy.
That Luke Skywalker thought for a moment that the best course of action was to butcher his nephew in his sleep, before he had committed any atrocities like Vader?

I couldn't buy it.
Sure, Luke did fight against his father, but he didn't want to kill him. He rather threw away his lightsaber than take his life. Even if he for a moment considered killing Vader there (we don't know that), that was his last choice. After lowering his guard multiple times, but constantly being provoked by Vader over and over again in a desperate situation until he snapped. But what was Luke's first choice with Ben? Was it to try to help his nephew? As far as we know, it wasn't. His first choice was to butcher him in his sleep, without anyone provoking him, and with all the time in the world to think. That's what I don't buy.

And then we find out that Luke knew about Snoke, and deliberately left his friends to deal with this powerful force user + the now evil Kylo Ren, without a single Jedi to help them combat this threat? The same Luke who cut his training with Yoda short to go recue his friends when he wasn't really ready, now thought it'd be a good idea if they were left fending for themselves against this huge threat.

And to top it off, he refused to help even after hearing that Leia was asking for help, and that Han was killed by Kylo.
Just because he failed with training Kylo (as Obi-Wan did with Anakin, or Yoda did with Dooku) doesn't mean he should believe that it's better if he leaves everyone to fend for themselves.

I could not buy that either. That was not Luke Skywalker to me.

- Holdo not telling anyone her plan

I don't believe it's explained in the film why she doesn't tell anyone about her real plan. Which leads to Finn and Rose going on a dangerous suicide mission, and Poe staging a mutiny. I can only make assumptions about why. But it does not make sense to me that she didn't at least tell Poe when the mutiny started. Instead she opted to use force to take back the ship. Which could have easily ended a lot worse than it did if Leia hadn't woken up at that moment. Another sign that Rian Johnson was obsessed with creating "gotcha" moments, to the point where surprising the audience was more important than having the story make sense.

Leia died. Nope, she didn't! (Flies back like Marry Poppins, and no one questions how she did it.)
Kylo will turn. No he won't!
Holdo is a badguy. No she isn't!
Snoke is a formidable foe. Nope, he randomly dies!
Rey's parents are important. Nope, she's nobody!
Finn is about to die. Nope, Rose saves him!
Luke is here doing badass things. Nope, he's not really here!

Moving on;

- Rose saving Finn

I'm not even going to bother trying to understand how she was able to accelerate past him to the point where she could drive into him form the side, and on top of that not have them both die in the process. But the two things that mainly stood out for me during that scene was her reasoning, and the fact that no one from the Empire shot them. They were really far from the entrance to their base. How they made it back there without any enemy ship firing at them is pretty weird. But perhaps not as weird as Rose's reasoning for saving him. Apparently she did it because she has fallen in love with him, in spite of only knowing him for a couple of hours and having had no romantic chemistry or moments shown on screen. And the message behind her actions greatly contradicts the rest of the film.
"We don't fight them with anger. We fight with love. And we don't sacrifice the ones we love."

.... You're going to kill thousands of enemies, regardless. So as long as you strike them down with love, it's ok?
And why is it not ok for Finn to sacrifice himself to save his friends? What is the movie trying to say, when Holdo sacrificed herself just moments earlier? And Luke did, just moments later?

Speaking of Holdo's sacrifice. That didn't make much sense either. Why couldn't they have left a drone behind to pilot the ship? We see BB-8 controlling a walker. Surely they have some auto-pilot technology they could have used instead of having her stay behind.
And as cool as the warp speed kamikaze crash looked, why has no one else ever thought of that idea? Why not fly a ship like that into the Death Star?
While on the subject of technicalities, I don't think the "we are running out of fuel" plotline makes sense either. If you're going at top speed in space, which they stated they were, you can just turn off the engines and you'll keep going at the same speed. Because you're in space.


- Rey's parents, and her lack of training

In the film, Rey reveals (before Kylo specifies that they were junk traders) that her parents were nobody. It appears she knew all along, but suppressed it because she wanted a more convenient truth that didn't involve her parents not loving her and selling her off.
Now I don't have a problem with that. And I see where Rian Johnson is going with that. He wants to show us that anyone can be a Jedi, regardless off lineage. And we see that suggested again in the end with the little boy holding the broom, looking up towards the resistance. And it's not like this is a new thing in Star Wars. But her background was built up a lot in the first film. JJ Abrams said that "something important happened on Jakku thousands of years ago, and Palpatine believed something important will happen there again." Was that just supposed to be Rey living there?
But the strangest thing to me here is that this means she bested Kylo Ren, who was trained by a Jedi Master, in a lightsaber duel the first time she ever picked one up, without any training, or special lineage.
They've explained before in Episode 2 that you can naturally be strong with the force, but without proper training you won't be able to wield it effectively.
So I'm not sure why I'm supposed to believe that she was better with a lightsaber than Kylo, even if his emotions were unbalanced. She can fight with a bo staff, but this is street fighting (with a different weapon that won't cut off her own limbs if she angles it wrong) vs sword training from a Jedi master.

- Why didn't Luke tell anyone that he was a projection/hologram?

Luke knew he couldn't do anything physical against the empire, because he was just a hologram. The best he could do was stall for time so that his friends could escape. Why then does he go out without telling anyone that? It was by mere chance that Poe realized this because he had a hunch that this is what Luke was doing. He might have never realized this, and Luke would have bought them no time at all.
Just so Rian could have another "gotcha" moment I guess.

- The first mainline Star Wars film without a lightsaber duel

As in two lightsabers never clash. The fight between Kylo & Rey vs the Praetorian guards was cool, but they weren't using lightsabers. And we didn't get a lightsaber duel between Luke and Kylo because he was just a hologram, and couldn't actually do anything, other than pretend he was dodging.
I get trying to be different. But no one is going to walk out of the movie theater feeling relieved that we didn't get an epic lightsaber duel.
Even though people hated the prequels, at least they had some nice lightsaber duels.

- Snoke is so powerful and such an evil mastermind

That he's able to link the minds of two people across different galaxies, and manipulate them into doing what he wants. But he can't notice a lightsaber scrambling right next to him.
(A bit of nitpicking, but I had to throw that in there. And he might come back again. But I don't expect him to.)

- What happened to the Knighst of Ren?

Why build that up and have ambiguous flashbacks of it if you're never going to show us? Maybe this will be shown in Episode 9, but I just don't think Rian Johnson cares.

I've probably forgotten many, but those are the main ones that come to mind.
Let me know if and why you disagree with something, and if I forgot to mention anything.

Last edited by Hiku - on 09 January 2018

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Yeah, during the scene where Rose crashes into Finn to save him I thought the same thing about how did they not get shot at. That was a big crash, and there were tons of AT-AT's and first order people obviously seeing it. And in one of the next scenes it shows that Finn apparently dragged Rose all the way back to the rebel base opening, which was a long distance away.

Apparently none of the tons of AT-AT's that saw them shot at them a single time during that.

And it's like Rian Johnson didn't give a fuck about character continuity at all for Luke Skywalker, in the OT he was willing to die because he sensed a bit of good left in Darth Vader, someone who had killed tons of people. But he feels a bit of darkness in Leia and Han Solo's son so he contemplates killing him immediately in his sleep? That made no sense. 

Also if JJ Abrams did truly have bigger plans for who Rey's parents were and wanted to I guess he could retcon the whole Rey's parents thing in episode 9 to something more and just say that Kylo was lying or something to try to further convince Rey to join him. 

Last edited by FloatingWaffles - on 09 January 2018

For me the worst part was when Rose and Finn were captured standing right next to Phasma and then that big explosion happens and everyone around them is dead while they are completely unharmed. Phasma is gone only to appear from a completely different section of the hangar as if nothing happened. WTF? The explosion happened right on top of all of them standing a few feet apart and then suddenly Phasma appears with a bunch of Stormtroopers like 300 feet away.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Great posts.

People who liked the movie (it's their right) have usually no answers for the enormous holes in the plot of this movie. Personnally that's one of the few movies I watched in theater where I was questionning wether the director thought the spectators were idiots. It really felt like it insulted our intelligence.

The biggest holes are obviously the fact that the first Order could have sent several ship in hyperspace to appear in front of the fleeing rebel ship, and could have ended this endless and ridiculous chase right away. The movie would have been over in a few minutes.

Some other ridiculous one is the fact that Snoke is furious against Hux because he think he let the rebels flee. But then Hux tells him he has a tracker to follow them. So Snoke, the supreme leader, wasn't aware of this. But Finn, a former simple stormtrooper, not only know the tracker, but know its exact location inside the first order main ship and know how to neutralize it.

The whole plot with Hold is ridiculous, wanting to die alone and doing nothing on the main ship so the spectator can be just surprised later when a reason magically appear.



Its called forced tokenism (Rose) and bad screen writing (Lukes treatment, Holdos plan, Snokes demise).

And then there is Disney. Making out Phasma, Snoke to be so badass that you just have to buy their latest toys and figures.

Sad thing is Finn had and arc in the last movie. Now he is reduced to mooching around a casino ( which Disney want you to visit) with a pointless character ( which was created to bring the chinese audiance to the cinema, lol at how that turned out).

Make not mistake about it. No thought was put into the script, arc or how it ties with the mythology of Star Wars. Disney just want to sell toy, have you visit Star Wars Land and go to the proposed "Skywalker-less trilogy" which I hope is put on the backburner.

If Jar Jar Abrams has any respect, he will retcon the crap from TLJ and give fans what they want.



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I can name more but I'll pace myself.
For starters:
How did Kylo get to the salt planet ahead of Rey? She left him laying down while she escaped. She also has the fastest ship in the Galaxy. When she finally shows up, the battle is over!?!

And how did DJ tell the First Order the plan of the Resistance? When did he ever know the plan? Hell, Poe didn't even know the plan and he was on the goddam ship!!



mZuzek loves Smeags. 😢

But really, you're just angry because your theory didn't pan out and you can't stand seeing a strong female lead. The movie was perfect.



mZuzek loves Smeags. 😢


- The map to Luke Skywalker

Did Luke give the map to Lor San Tekka? Or did he discover it? Honestly, I don't know. Maybe someone can chime in. But that's a big difference.

- The treatment of Luke's character

This is the "error" I see most often, but I really don't think it counts. Yes, the conceptualization of Luke in TLJ is different from the conceptualization of Luke in ROTJ. However, 30 years have passed. People change. Seeing Luke grow from a callow teenager to a Jedi knight was great, but did people seriously expect a human being to remain unchanged over the course of three decades? Believe me, this isn't how I saw Luke either, but a character isn't bad or inexplicable just because he's not what you wanted/expected. Some might argue that an unexpected, unconventional take makes the character more interesting.

- Holdo not telling anyone her plan

I interpreted this as Holdo telling the plan to senior leadership, and Poe was excluded.

- Rose saving Finn

I'm not sure how she caught up. So I'll give you that one. Honestly, the bigger problem is that Finn should have died. That would have been a great ending to his arc. I'm not sure what he's supposed to do in the next one.

For Holdo, I dunno. Maybe they needed a human at the helm to respond if anything went wrong. Maybe it's a resistance tradition for captains to go down with their ships -- we see this happen earlier. Maybe everyone was in a tense, life-or-death situation and wasn't thinking straight.

Star Wars has always played fast and loose with space. 

- Rey's parents, and her lack of training

Rey's parentage was the right move, I think. Weren't folks tired of every important person in a galaxy of thousands of planets being either a Skywalker or a Solo?

Lack of training, I will give you. I think you can justify the fight at the end of TFA because Ben was totally unhinged after killing his father and bleeding out from a shot from a weapon that had, earlier in the movie, thrown Stormtroopers back 5 yards.

But she gets even stronger in TLJ. It's just boring. She's boring. I want a hero with a flaw. What is Rey's flaw? Missing her parents? For me, Kylo is by far the more interesting, conflicted character. 

- Why didn't Luke tell anyone that he was a projection/hologram?

Maybe the act of facing down The First Order and surviving a imperial barrage is more inspirational if the onlookers think you're really there? I don't have any problems with this.

- The first mainline Star Wars film without a lightsaber duel

I LOVED this. I appreciate a movie subverting expectations and forging its own path.

- Snoke is so powerful and such an evil mastermind

Snoke is just a crummy villain/character design and I'm glad he's gone  

But seriously, his death proves his overconfidence and Kylo's raw power/ability to hide his true feelings.

- What happened to the Knighst of Ren?

Maybe they'll be in Episode IX, maybe they were out terrorizing another pocket of the galaxy .
 

Listen, I acknowledge that there are problems with TLJ. But they're structural, tonal, and technical problems. A few moments where things are not explained in 100% perfect detail are not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I regret that legitimate criticism of the movie is being conflated with inconsequential details.



I hated Rey the most. Mary Sue all the way.



Pretty much what happens when you have different director and writers for a direct sequel that literally takes place where the last film left off. Both are going to have different visions and ideas, and it’s not likely they’ll link together properly. It’s a shame that Abrams didn’t stick around to do the whole trilogy. Even if Episode 7 wasn’t exactly fresh, it was still a good film, and a genuine Star Wars story. Episode 8 just felt plain and boring, like it was more focused on real political issues than it was being Star Wars. I imagine if it would’ve been a lot different, albeit better, under Abrams.



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