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Forums - Sony Discussion - Is PS4 the first console to sell like this without a fad?

Vizigoth04 said:
LethalP said:

Hows it dorky? It's fundamental information sir.

Maybe you are trying to say now that your OP was sarcasm and I get that. Innovation such as CD drive, DVD drive or Blu-ray or even cartridge isn't fad. It's experiment with Technology. Using different times of medium to can have different cost and different perks. Sony sold CD/DVD/Blu-ray players separately as well. Those wouldn't be fads either. Just gains in Technology. It seems as though the next gains if you call them that would be Digital Distribution. A fad is a fidget spinner, a yoyo, or bell bottoms. Some come back. Others don't. But CD players don't come back at all. They're obsolete in the entertainment and technology industry.

Without getting wrapped up in semantics my definition of a fad was different, perhaps wrong even.

Motion controls for the Wii for example was a development in technology much like CD or DVD, but it was also what overwhelmingly sold the Wii to 25 million people a year. People who had never owned a games console prior or since. It's hard to dispute that because what else sold the Wii to that many people? Take motion controls away and you're left with a Gamecube in another box, it would have flopped hard. Now to be straight, I don't think the PS1 and 2 sold because of CD's and DVD's, but apparently some think they did. And that being the case DVD's would be (my definition) of a fad. Perhaps the wrong word to use, maybe 'selling point' would have been more accurate. The technology itself isn't the fad, it's the novelty that it created that is the fad.



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COKTOE said:
Ucouldntbemorewrong said:

VGChartz: Video Game Charts, Game Sales, Top Sellers, Game Data

Well not exactly.

PS3 at the end of it's gen had much hearts and mind share due to the high quality exclusive releases at the end of that gen. Where as 360 near the end was forgotten from MS with exclusives. Along with sour taste in peoples mouths with the RLOD on 360.

Then yes MS with it's $100 more DRM in place, gotta have Kinetic for it to work lie. Did not help.

Plus Sony showing the roadmap of Exclusive games coming within the next 3 years plus deals with 3rd party AAA games DLC first to PS4.

And now 3 years later with all the P4 Exclusive games coming out with all the mind share and installed base, it's just a snowball effect till at least next gen if not longer as long as Sony does not fumble the ball to PS5 in 2020.

 

With full BC poised to become the norm in the next round, and digital purchases being bigger than ever, this gen will see a "carry over" effect that's stronger than it's ever been in past generations. Building a customer base has never been more important than it is now, especially for Sony and MS. It would take a monumental series of fuck ups for a gamer to abandon their favorite ecosystem at this point. Nintendo is not exempt of course, but they do exist in a slightly different space. Still competitors, but they are more apt to be paired with a Sony or MS console, as opposed to somebody buying an Xbox and Playstation combo. MS REALLY fucked up more than anybody else. I don't see how they ever get back to XB360 numbers, which, make no mistake, were somewhat padded due to it's high failure rate, and subsequently higher than normal levels of recurrent purchases.

I think BC at the start of a new generation is paramount. 3 years in it's not that big of a deal.

Come PS5 and XB1X2 BC is going to have to be there, and at 100% compatible to PS4 and BX1, not what it is right now.



Ucouldntbemorewrong said:
COKTOE said:

With full BC poised to become the norm in the next round, and digital purchases being bigger than ever, this gen will see a "carry over" effect that's stronger than it's ever been in past generations. Building a customer base has never been more important than it is now, especially for Sony and MS. It would take a monumental series of fuck ups for a gamer to abandon their favorite ecosystem at this point. Nintendo is not exempt of course, but they do exist in a slightly different space. Still competitors, but they are more apt to be paired with a Sony or MS console, as opposed to somebody buying an Xbox and Playstation combo. MS REALLY fucked up more than anybody else. I don't see how they ever get back to XB360 numbers, which, make no mistake, were somewhat padded due to it's high failure rate, and subsequently higher than normal levels of recurrent purchases.

I think BC at the start of a new generation is paramount. 3 years in it's not that big of a deal.

Come PS5 and XB1X2 BC is going to have to be there, and at 100% compatible to PS4 and BX1, not what it is right now.

Oh, for sure. Even though it's been done before with the PS2, Wii, Wii-U, DS line, and to a lesser extent, the PS3, it's still going to be the "new" paradigm going forward. The piecemeal, hodgepodge, after the fact approach currently being employed by MS, while laudable, is not even close to the same thing as absolute, 100% BC out of the gate.



- "If you have the heart of a true winner, you can always get more pissed off than some other asshole."

shikamaru317 said:
Ganoncrotch said:

The PS4 is selling like this because of the X1 reveal. IMO.

That reveal was just an absolute disaster, they left the door wide open for Sony in all markets, even their tightly held US. So yeah... the PS4's Gimmick was Smartglass, TV integration, DDR3 memory, empty promises of cloud power (remember that?), always online, no more trading of games, Kinect always kinected (remember that?), moving all games from the console to Games for Windows Live 10, but yeah... for Sony the handy thing is, all those ideas were on the systems main rival.

I bought a PS3 after that reveal, and a PS4 soon after launch, after being a X360 fan all last gen.

Gotta agree here. If XB1 had been at least as powerful as PS4 for the same price on release without all of the BS with Kinect and cloud and always online, I feel like XB1 sales would be at least 10m higher than they are now while PS4's would be at least 10m lower, possibly even 15m. 

Geez. Those are some pretty big "if's". :) But they did what they did. With a big, shit eating grin, Don Mattrick smile backing it up. Who then told people who didn't like it, that the Xbox 360 was still there to meet their needs. An audience who almost exclusively already owned that console. I know Hitler analogies have become passe, which is huge loss for comedy...... but, if only he had focused on the autobahn, anti-smoking legislation, and his paintings......



- "If you have the heart of a true winner, you can always get more pissed off than some other asshole."

Brutalyst said:
Ganoncrotch said:

The PS4 is selling like this because of the X1 reveal. IMO.

That reveal was just an absolute disaster, they left the door wide open for Sony in all markets, even their tightly held US. So yeah... the PS4's Gimmick was Smartglass, TV integration, DDR3 memory, empty promises of cloud power (remember that?), always online, no more trading of games, Kinect always kinected (remember that?), moving all games from the console to Games for Windows Live 10, but yeah... for Sony the handy thing is, all those ideas were on the systems main rival.

I bought a PS3 after that reveal, and a PS4 soon after launch, after being a X360 fan all last gen.

 

I still remember that interview, where when asked 'What about those who dont have an internet connection?' to which I watched open mouthed as Don Mattick replied 'we have a console for them, its called the Xbox 360'... the biggest middle finger to the consumer base I can recall :D

It makes me cringe in all sorts of ways...

But yeah for the few people that replied that I'm over simplifying the events, of course I'm just picking the key moments that turned me personally as a Xbox fan to a Playstation fan (I still buy every system lol, just mean fan as in the one I'll start up first at home) but yeah I know that events to begin the generation don't mean the whole thing is going to play out that way, but for everyone who watched that reveal the same as me was basically -1 from the X1 sales and +1 to the PS4 sales. Now you have that online environment to think about when it comes to games too far more than any previous gen, so if you want to get the system your friends got and play the same games as him, even if they're third party games, chances are by order of the early lead... your mate will likely have a PS4, as such that's another sale of the system.



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Ryugarr said:
jason1637 said:
The Wii wasn't a fad. Motion controls are still a thing.

Yup and the Switch proves that, especially with how much it has been selling. The motion controls on the Switch are a nice touch.

I am pretty sure the absolute majority arent buying it for the motion controls



Ruler said:
Ryugarr said:

Yup and the Switch proves that, especially with how much it has been selling. The motion controls on the Switch are a nice touch.

I am pretty sure the absolute majority arent buying it for the motion controls

Yes. It's something that still exists in a vestigial state, but it's hardly what it once was. Which is the only outcome that was possible, given it's obvious limitations.



- "If you have the heart of a true winner, you can always get more pissed off than some other asshole."

thismeintiel said:
DivinePaladin said:
The whole PS2 succeeding because of the DVD boom is a bit of a history rewrite, which only really popped up after Sony itself claimed around the PS3's launch that the PS2 pioneered DVD. Cheap DVD players were already becoming popular in some households before the PS2 launch - the PS2 didn't seem to have a super tangible effect on this outside of giving gamers an excuse to buy DVDs.

Of course at this point we can't prove either side is more correct with more detailed data that we just don't have, so the PS2 succeeding because of a "fad" is a claim that can just be thrown around!

The PS4 doesn't need to be special compared to the others in the 100m club, it doesn't need an extra ego stroke or to take shots at its older brothers or the Nintendo systems to feel better. If we really want to start defining fads, I can guarantee each of the highest selling systems moved many units to those that don't usually buy systems just due to word of mouth, popularity, or because it was a status symbol. My buddy's non-gamer dad owns a Switch because it's popular, and I believe coincidentally also had a PS2 for that same reason!

I think it's pretty easy to come to the fact that PS2 helped DVD, not the other way around. In pretty much every region it launched in, we have stories of DVD sales skyrocketing, while before the sales were meh, at best. If it was DVD that helped PS2, DVD would have been becoming very popular on their own. Then people saw the PS2 could play DVDs, so they bought it.

Of course, that's not what happened. DVD players were already around half the price of the PS2. No one was picking it up that early in its life for DVDs. What happened was gamers were buying the new Playstation, and knowing it could also play DVDs, they thought "Well, might as well pick up a couple DVDs to test them out."

@ OP

I don't think people are picking up on what you did there. But, yes, PS4 is selling for the same reason PS1, PS2, and, on a slightly smaller level, the PS3. Games. 

Again, on a site so driven by numbers and data, we have a lot of "we knows" and "I thinks" involving this issue, but no real solid numbers I've ever found have ever really helped affirm the common belief that you're holding. That was pretty much entirely my point. 



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jason1637 said:
The Wii wasn't a fad. Motion controls are still a thing.

Using motion controls as the core central mechanic for gameplay is a fad.

Using motion controls as a supplementary mechanic for gameplay, however, is not.



LethalP said:
I realize now that using sarcasm in a forum post doesn't always go over. If you may recall, I done a thread stating why the 'PS2 sold because of DVDs' claim was nonsense, so I'm right there with you. But if anything I (attempted) to bring fourth another point in this thread about the idea that PS consoles don't need, and never needed, a fad (some new enticing technology substantially different to what has been seen on other consoles).

People think that by fad i'm saying something with less credibility or 'flash in the pan', I just mean some new thing that was a primary draw to the console, like motion controls or what some people have actually said, DVD on PS2.

PS2 would have still sold at least triple million without the DVD playback. Take out the motion controls on Wii probably would have sold a little better than GC.