Forums - Movies Discussion - Top 5 Things I Disliked About SW:TLJ

When the Force Awakens came out, I wrote a Top 5 Things I Disliked About SW:TFA thread.  You can see it here.  I have given that movie a C+.  Well, I watched Last Jedi Fri, so I decided to do one for it, too.  And I after some thought, I have given it a C-.  Here are the Top 5 reasons why. 

 

5. Unnecessary CGI Creatures.   The sad thing about this movie is it comes off like one of the prequels.  While there are things done better in this film then in those, the director seems to fall for the same "there's gotta be shit going on in the background" trap that Lucas did with those films.  I guess for the kiddies, so they don't get bored.  We don't just have the Porgs.  Oh no, there are 3 cute animals (the Porgs, the ice/salt foxes, and the racing...foxes/dogs/things) for the kiddies, and young adult females, to run out and buy toys of.  And watching scenes with them, it's just so obvious why they are there.  Not to aid in the atmosphere or progress a story.  Oh no, they are there to look and act cute, so people want to buy toys of them.  It doesn't help that they are some of the most obvious CG that I have seen in awhile.  Which is weird when you think how the CG has actually improved in other aspects, especially for Snoke.

4. What The Hell Happened To Luke.  Luke's character has been completely shat on in these two new movies.  Now, I don't mind that for a split second of weakness he contemplated killing his apprentice.  We find out that he quickly recovered and felt ashamed, but Kylo woke up and thought his master had betrayed him.  No, what I have a problem with is him just running away and saying, "Fuck you, you fix my problem" to his friends and family.  Some hypothesized that he left in search of something, maybe a greater understanding of the Force, while leaving the map in R2D2 so that people could find him if shit really went down and they needed him.  That may have been acceptable, but that's not the explanation we got.  He went and found the origins of the Jedi, including some sacred tree and documents, and then...just came there to die?  If that's the case, why the hell would you leave a map?  Why does he act like he didn't know how Rey could have found him?  Why continue eating and drinking if you just want to die?

This is just not the real Luke.  The real Luke would have accepted his fault in the rise of the Dark Side in Kylo, his best friend and sister's son, his nephew, and would have done everything in his power to right that wrong.  Face Kylo.  Face Snoke.  Try to bring Kylo back to the Light.  Not just abandon everyone after he helped create a monster, live on some island, waiting/hoping to...ugh...die.

3. Not Enough Was Explained.  This is the exact same problem I had with the Force Awakens.  And most people said, "Hey, they'll explain more in the sequel."  I already knew that wouldn't be the case, and I was right.  So, I'll ask similar questions.  If Luke wanted to be left alone, why did he leave a map in R2?  Why was a section left out and given to BB8?  How did the New Order know they had a map to Luke?  Why did the New Order have finding Luke such a large part of their mission, if he was just going to stay on that island to die?  How did a new Republic, that is now sided with the Rebellion, allow a new Empire to form?  How did the New Order get so large, after much of the Empire was destroyed, in a matter of 30 years?  Where has this Snoke been this entire time?  Why is everyone just listening to him?  Did they really just destroy Palpatine's character by suggesting he was just an underling of this pathetic Snoke guy?  How the Hell did Kanata get Anakin's Lightsaber?  It should have shattered to a thousand pieces as it fell from Cloud City (with Luke's hand) and plummeted to the ground.

2. Girl Power, again.  It is more evident than before Rey is just a Mary Sue.  Some people tried to explain away her being so in tuned with the Force, without a single bit of training, because it would be revealed later that her father or mother, or both, were great Jedis.  Welp, surprise, she's a big nobody.  Sold into slavery for some cash.  Now, don't get me wrong, anyone can be a Jedi if they practice enough.  But, the fact is, some are more keyed into the Force than others.  It has already been established that the Skywalker line is very Force sensitive, but training is still needed.  So, what's with Rey?  In the FA, she takes on a Jedi, Kylo, that has been trained for probably 15+ years in the force, and on both sides of it.  She can resist him reading her mind.  She could control troops with her mind.  She took on Kylo in a one on one battle.  And was able to beat him by willing a light saber to her, even though he was bringing it to him, as well.  Again, not a single second of training.

Now, for the LJ.  And keep in mind that she gets ONE lesson from Luke, period.  She can stare in the Dark Side, instantly, without being tempted by it at all.  She takes on Snoke's elite guards, with not a single bit of light saber training.  And no, her flailing it around all by herself for a minute does not count.  Is once again shown to be Kylo's equal by having the same pull on a light saber, only this time it rips in half.  In what was probably the most ridiculous display, she lifts a ton of boulders out of the way with barely any concentration or stress.  Now, just remember how tough it was for Luke to do 3 smaller ones.  Or how hard Yoda had to concentrate to lift the X-Wing out of the swamp on Degobah.  I guess they both didn't have the right part between their legs.  It's really such a shame, because Daisy Ridley is a great actress and I just know she, and her character, deserve so much more than to just be lowered to the status of a Mary Sue.

1.  And the worst part...teases that lead to fucking nowhere.  There was so much hope for this movie.  So many great things it could have led to.  Instead, it lead to a big bunch of nothing.  Rey goes to see Luke to bring him back to fight for the Rebellion and...he just throws his lightsaber away.  He's become a grouchy old man who wants to die.  Rey's there now, so you think they may talk and then he will train her and...there's a silent montage of him drinking milk from a creatures four tits and him catching fish.  This is where the characters should have gotten to know each other, while we also got to know them better.  It's hinted at in the previous film, and this one, that Rey's parents are going to be a big reveal and...they were just junkies needing money so they sold her.  Rey and Kylo are connected through the force, so they can talk to each other light years away, and Rey tries to turn Kylo and...Kylo turns for about 5 mins, then we go back to the same old shit, Rey good, Kylo bad.  Snoke is set up to be this ultimate Sith, the true leader of the Empire and...he's easily tricked and killed by Kylo in a scene with some of the most transparent and cliched lines, ever.  Kylo offers Rey a 3rd way, without the NO/Empire or Rebellion, and...she instantly refuses him because she's a Mary Sue who can never be evil or even live in the grey. 

Well, there they are.  And there are definitely more things that are wrong that we can touch on.  Like some of the jokes and reaction shots that just fall flat and ruin the tone.  The plot holes.  The overly cliche lines/messages.  The fact this was obviously dumbed down for kids, instead of being for people of all ages.  Or the fact that the main plot is really just about a ship that is running out of gas, but is somehow faster than a NO ship, even though the NO could have some of their ships light speed to it.  So, what are your thoughts?

Last edited by thismeintiel - on 31 December 2017

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The ice foxes aren't CG. I saw a review where someone was showing clips of them making the icefoxes. Maybe they're CG in some scenes but they certainly are practical effects at moments



AngryLittleAlchemist said:
The ice foxes aren't CG. I saw a review where someone was showing clips of them making the icefoxes. Maybe they're CG in some scenes but they certainly are practical effects at moments

Those were definitely not practical, regardless of what that video shows.  You can even tell they are CG in the one shot of them in the trailer for the film.  And they definitely aren't practical when you see them moving in the background on the salt planet.



thismeintiel said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:
The ice foxes aren't CG. I saw a review where someone was showing clips of them making the icefoxes. Maybe they're CG in some scenes but they certainly are practical effects at moments

Those were definitely not practical, regardless of what that video shows.  You can even tell they are CG in the one shot of them in the trailer for the film.  And they definitely aren't practical when you see them moving in the background on the salt planet.

I guess they might have used the creature exclusively as CG in the movie even though they did make a puppet. That's disappointing 



I give you 5 more but not with as much writing.

1. Super Leia
2. Lack of lightsaber battle between anyone important.
3. It's Star Wars but 90% of the movie is between 2 ships despite the longest runtime. I like more planets.
4. People seem to say it is a high risk movie, but they still won't take high enough risks with deaths or even loss of limbs with the good guys like with Luke losing hand, Obi Wan in first movie and Anakin limbs. Luke only just "dies"
5. The force in general has become more casual, I wouldn't be surprised if in the next movie a random good guy all of a sudden uses the force like Finn or Poe.

Edit: Came up with a better one

6: No meaningful/strong villain

I: Darth Maul

II: Dooku

III: Dooku,Emperor, Anakin

IV: Vader

V: Vader

VI: Vader, Emperor

VII: Kylo Ren (he loses) okay..

VIII: Kylo Ren (he lost again) and a few minutes of Snoke (also lost)

IX: Kylo Ren again... (Spoiler: he's gonna lose)

Last edited by Farsala - on 18 December 2017

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Farsala said:
I give you 5 more but not with as much writing.

1. Super Leia
2. Lack of lightsaber battle between anyone important.
3. It's Star Wars but 90% of the movie is between 2 ships despite the longest runtime. I like more planets.
4. People seem to say it is a high risk movie, but they still won't take high enough risks with deaths or even loss of limbs with the good guys like with Luke losing hand, Obi Wan in first movie and Anakin limbs. Luke only just "dies"
5. The force in general has become more casual, I wouldn't be surprised if in the next movie a random good guy all of a sudden uses the force like Finn or Poe.

1. Yea, Super Leia was pretty ridiculous.  Especially since she should have been dead from the explosion.  Or even if she wasn't dead, she was unconscious, so would have died before she woke up to use those powers.

2.  I don't know about battles, but there definitely should have been a lot of lightsaber training between Luke and Rey.  Not exactly a battle, but it could have been interesting.

3. Yea, I only mentioned it.  It really seemed out of place for a major Star Wars movie.  Seems more suited for a half hour episode of Star Trek.

4. I agree with Angry Joe on his take on it.  The director didn't have the balls to do anything, so he had it both ways.  Oh, Rey or Kylo might change sides.  Well, definitely not the Mary Sue, but Kylo will...for 5 mins.  Will Kylo kill Luke.  Well, he does, but not really.  Oh no, the NO/Empire is destroying ships with people on th...wait no, we'll make sure to have scenes saying everyone but the pilot escaped.  The stakes couldn't be lower.

5.  I could be wrong, but didn't that boy at the end of the film use the force to bring the broom to him?  I know it was leaning on the wall and he didn't reach all the way to it.  I couldn't tell if he used the Force, or if he just kicked the bottom of the broom to make it fall towards him.  Wouldn't surprise me if he did use it.



Farsala said:

Edit: Came up with a better one

6: No meaningful/strong villain

I: Darth Maul

II: Dooku

III: Dooku,Emperor, Anakin

IV: Vader

V: Vader

VI: Vader, Emperor

VII: Kylo Ren (he loses) okay..

VIII: Kylo Ren (he lost again) and a few minutes of Snoke (also lost)

IX: Kylo Ren again... (Spoiler: he's gonna lose)

True.  The sad thing is that the fans theories would make for a much better film.  Personally, I think Snoke should have lived to have a bigger presence in the 3rd one.  Kylo and Rey should have either switched sides or started their own 3rd side.  For the former, it would have been interesting to have Rey turn out to be Snoke's daughter, and because she is prone to go towards the Dark Side, she joins him.  While Kylo seeks redemption after killing his father.  In the 3rd film, Rey or Snoke could be responsible for Leia's death, giving Kylo the strength/drive to face them/him.  For the latter, there are just too many possibilities to explore.

Instead we got, "Oh man, this is co...Oh, nevermind. It's back to exactly how we started this movie."



thismeintiel said:
Farsala said:

Edit: Came up with a better one

6: No meaningful/strong villain

I: Darth Maul

II: Dooku

III: Dooku,Emperor, Anakin

IV: Vader

V: Vader

VI: Vader, Emperor

VII: Kylo Ren (he loses) okay..

VIII: Kylo Ren (he lost again) and a few minutes of Snoke (also lost)

IX: Kylo Ren again... (Spoiler: he's gonna lose)

True.  The sad thing is that the fans theories would make for a much better film.  Personally, I think Snoke should have lived to have a bigger presence in the 3rd one.  Kylo and Rey should have either switched sides or started their own 3rd side.  For the former, it would have been interesting to have Rey turn out to be Snoke's daughter, and because she is prone to go towards the Dark Side, she joins him.  While Kylo seeks redemption after killing his father.  In the 3rd film, Rey or Snoke could be responsible for Leia's death, giving Kylo the strength/drive to face them/him.  For the latter, there are just too many possibilities to explore.

Instead we got, "Oh man, this is co...Oh, nevermind. It's back to exactly how we started this movie."

Yeah people aren't gonna look back as fondly on these new villains like we did with Vader and the emperor. Even Dooku was fun, being played by an 80 year old man and of course Darth Maul is cool but he was one off. Snoke was here then gone without a single lightsaber stroke from himself.

At this point I think we would have liked Kylo Ren if his arc was Episode VII and some elements of episode VII . Then episode VIII with Han death and the abridged version of episode VIII to finish. Then finish with IX with Luke dieing if they still desired to cement the trilogy. With a lot of changes and maybe some more villains, like another skilled student.



I like your review. I think you hit on some keys points. Some of my friends loved the movie. I just thought it was OK but not great.



I had to click on this thread to know what it was about.



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