Forums - Nintendo Discussion - What I hope FE Echoes doesn't mean for FE 2018

I'd guess I'm only about halfway through Echoes, but I'd say that's already enough for me to confirm my feelings about this. I really do enjoy the game and think it's good sauce overall, but some of it's mechanics and changes I'd rather not see in another Fire Emblem game tbh. This is the latest FE game though, thus potentially the most telling of what the next game will be like, so here's just a quick list of what I really do not want.

-Linear Class Tress/Minimal Classes

Probably my biggest gripe. Aside from the few villagers you have no say in what classes your units are. There also just aren't many different classes in general. Less options is simply less fun and gives the game severely limited replayability compared to the previous games.

-No Pair Ups

I love love love this mechanic! Added many layers of strategy and options, and Fates version of it was just perfect, so not having it is sinful! Okay technically there is a very light version of it in Echoes, but nowhere near as in depth or impactful.

-Forced Grinding

Enemy units keep respawning on the map and you have to get through them to get to the actual missions, highly discouraging me from backtracking. Enemys in dungeons also respawn, though atleast there it's possible to avoid them.

-Cantors

Speaking of grinding! They basically took the most tedious and repetitive parts of Conquest (Faceless spam) and made it into a unit. This thing is just blatant padding. Honestly can we not have monsters in general? They're just not very interesting to fight, though atleast Echoes has more variety with it's monters.

-No Weapon Triangle

It's safe to say this wont be a thing in FE 2018 but eh listing it here anyway. A nice layer of added depth that has no business not existing in a FE game!

-Bland Maps/Rushdown A.I.

Awakening is also very guilty of this admittedly, but I wasn't fond of it there either. There have been some maps where the enemys actually don't move unless you aggro them, but on the majority so far they all just yolo charge. After Conquest we know IS is capable of well thought out map designs and enemy placements/A.I. so it's fair that I expect better!

-Overall Bulkier Units

On the fence on this one, I like it but I also don't lel. Perhaps it's just cause I'm used to Awakening/Fates where most everything dies in 1-2 hits, but I do think it raises the stakes and makes every move you make really count. Can't help but play more lax when my units can get crit twice and still live.

After writing this, I realize that's basically everything about the game lawlz! Well I certainly wouldn't mind the full voice acting and the continuing trend of archers actually being good. Other than that though, I really hope Echoes remains as it's own unique little thing, hate me for it!



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Just making sure you are aware, majority of the complaints I think you have, is due to the fact this is adopting an old game for modern audience without completely ruining the first game.



 

Out of curiosity, have you played any FE before awakening? Because i disagree.

I dislike the class changing and skill inheritance of awakening and Fates, wich i consider a humongous grind, wich the older games didn't have particularly because who they were and their class made them fit as part of the world and didn't force you to grind with multiple units to get the "perfect" setup. It forced you to build strategies with the resources you had. Also, little to no backtracking was a staple of the series i wish to see back, because FE used to be a story driven fest and not a grind and breeding fest. It completely ruins the pace.

Pair up was never very cool to me and just exacerbated one shot situations.

I'm surprised that there is no triangle. That is very weird. But overall you got me interested in Echoes. If it's not doing what Awakening and Fates are doing, it can only be better. Just the "dungeons" part didn't resonate with me.



Last edited by Nem - on 28 November 2017

Nem said:

Out of curiosity, have you played any FE before awakening? Because i disagree.

I dislike the class changing and skill inheritance of awakening and Fates, wich i consider a humongous grind, wich the older games didn't have particularly because who they were and their class made them fit as part of the world and didn't force you to grind with multiple units to get the "perfect" setup. It forced you to build strategies with the resources you had. Also, little to no backtracking was a staple of the series i wish to see back, because FE used to be a story driven fest and not a grind and breeding fest. It completely ruins the pace.

Pair up was never very cool to me and just exacerbated one shot situations.

I'm surprised that there is no triangle. That is very weird. But overall you got me interested in Echoes. If it's not doing what Awakening and Fates are doing, it can only be better. Just the "dungeons" part didn't resonate with me.



Its a remake of a game before the triangles and yes, I have to agree with what you said about the class changing and inheritance. I don't like it, I never have. Pair ups I'm fine with but the majority of his complaints are old mechanics and quite frankly I enjoyed echoes FAAAAAAAAAAR more than I did with awakening. Its the FE that I like. It has its quirks but I quite enjoy it



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Acevil said:
Just making sure you are aware, majority of the complaints I think you have, is due to the fact this is adopting an old game for modern audience without completely ruining the first game.

Yeah I haven't played or even seen the original NES version, so I wouldn't know what's stayed the same or changed between it and Echoes. I would assume the watered down pair up system is new though.

 

Nem said:

Out of curiosity, have you played any FE before awakening? Because i disagree.

I dislike the class changing and skill inheritance of awakening and Fates, wich i consider a humongous grind, wich the older games didn't have particularly because who they were and their class made them fit as part of the world and didn't force you to grind with multiple units to get the "perfect" setup. It forced you to build strategies with the resources you had. Also, little to no backtracking was a staple of the series i wish to see back, because FE used to be a story driven fest and not a grind and breeding fest. It completely ruins the pace.

Pair up was never very cool to me and just exacerbated one shot situations.

I'm surprised that there is no triangle. That is very weird. But overall you got me interested in Echoes. If it's not doing what Awakening and Fates are doing, it can only be better. Just the "dungeons" part didn't resonate with me.

I'm an Awakening baby here, and yeah looks like we're of opposite minds on this. I loved planning out team comps and the satisfaction of seeing my own unique builds working just as planned! Sounds like you're more of a minimalist so I definitely see Echoes being a good fit for ya.



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You might think it's weird but I would like them to not use the triangle weapon system in the next FE :P +

I love the way magic is used, it's basically an effective risk vs reward system.

And on the + side again, Berkut is the best vilain out of the FE 3DS games, coupled with a great reimagining of the story and stellar voice acting, I was quite for this game being the first time I experienced the FE franchise :)



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This game was made increadibly faithful to the original. The game also suffers from thev2nd game syndrone that most ninty games have, qhich is the reason its so wierd. That said most of the new mechanics won't carry over. Large amount of supports, triangle, playable avatar (seriously how alm and celica was portrayed maked me wish for an avatar) and pair ups will probably be back by the next game.
That said fully VA'd dialogue should return which is going to be just awesome.



This is a remake of an old game so it's not likely indicative of what the next game will be

Interestingly enough, this game reminded me what set the original games apart from Awakening and Fates and I really liked it, was a breath of fresh air, despite being a remake. You need to keep in mind that this is a remake of the game. Newer mechanics such as reclassing/map design/pair ups aren't added or changed because of the remake. Killing the Cantors kills all of their summons so aim for those.

> Double promotions and promoting system
Rather than grinding up to 20 and then promoting, you have the option to promote at level 10 with bigger stat boosts if your character was RNG screwed. The option is still there to grind to 20 (which I did) but it truly incentivize promoting early. With double promotions, promoting early isn't too bad either since you won't be level capped easily. The real grind of the newer games is the reclassing and skill system. You need to grind much more whereas here you can get all the skills with a single level up path. Being unable to reclass makes your characters specific and specialized so there are strategies, though Dread Fighters are just as broken in this game as in Awakening.

> Weapons and Magic
The classic triangle is nice for strategies and when Fates threw all weapons into the mix, it made this a bit weird. Magics were truly the strongest in the original FE games, so having it drain your life and having a fixed accuracy percentage remedies this. Bows are a bit broken but at least weight and accuracy isn't perfect. The equipment slot is a really nice addition, though you probably will just go with rings



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Mar1217 said:
You might think it's weird but I would like them to not use the triangle weapon system in the next FE :P +

I love the way magic is used, it's basically an effective risk vs reward system.

And on the + side again, Berkut is the best vilain out of the FE 3DS games, coupled with a great reimagining of the story and stellar voice acting, I was quite for this game being the first time I experienced the FE franchise :)

What do ya have against the weapon triangle? :O

Storywise, I'm not even done yet but I'd already say it's better than Fates, though really that's not saying much lel. I'm gonna wait until I see what the villians motives and overall plan is first before comparing to Awakening. Berkut seems like a stock evil because evil guy so far, atleast Ferdinand had somewhat of a reason, but eh I'll see!



Lonely_Dolphin said:
Acevil said:
Just making sure you are aware, majority of the complaints I think you have, is due to the fact this is adopting an old game for modern audience without completely ruining the first game.

Yeah I haven't played or even seen the original NES version, so I wouldn't know what's stayed the same or changed between it and Echoes. I would assume the watered down pair up system is new though.

 

Nem said:

Out of curiosity, have you played any FE before awakening? Because i disagree.

I dislike the class changing and skill inheritance of awakening and Fates, wich i consider a humongous grind, wich the older games didn't have particularly because who they were and their class made them fit as part of the world and didn't force you to grind with multiple units to get the "perfect" setup. It forced you to build strategies with the resources you had. Also, little to no backtracking was a staple of the series i wish to see back, because FE used to be a story driven fest and not a grind and breeding fest. It completely ruins the pace.

Pair up was never very cool to me and just exacerbated one shot situations.

I'm surprised that there is no triangle. That is very weird. But overall you got me interested in Echoes. If it's not doing what Awakening and Fates are doing, it can only be better. Just the "dungeons" part didn't resonate with me.

I'm an Awakening baby here, and yeah looks like we're of opposite minds on this. I loved planning out team comps and the satisfaction of seeing my own unique builds working just as planned! Sounds like you're more of a minimalist so I definitely see Echoes being a good fit for ya.

"watered down pair ups" is how supports were originally done and honestly how I prefer them. Honestly, I prefer the older games. If I to say what the perfect FE game is it would be radiant dawn due to the great maps and the way everything was handled. Nice difficulty too.



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