Forums - Nintendo Discussion - What Nintendo learned from Sony

Ka-pi96 said:
Qwark said:

Well that will be learning from Microsoft not Sony give credit where it's due;)

I did say it could be learnt from MS.

But it could also come from Sony too. If Nintendo look at Sony and think "hey them trophy things seem like a good idea" then they've learnt it from Sony, not MS.

Well shamelessly copying things with some improvements always was something PS excels at.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

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Pavolink said:
deskpro2k3 said:

I like how some of you guys down playing Sony innovation with third parties. If that's the case then don't make threads begging for scale down ports. Yeah you know what thread I'm talking about.

The "Can we agree Nintendo should go third party?" thread begging for ports?

That sounds like a joke thread to me.



Areym said:
Well, as somebody eloquently put it, having too many games is a bad thing, you know. It's overwhelming to the user so they shouldn't take that note from Sony who puts out too many games.

Whoever said that didn't really have anything to say. Too many games? That's an argument against Sony? Wow, that really shows that there really is no arguing against what they are doing. You know, I think there's more than one or two flavors of ice cream or whatever out there and I don't think people are overwhelmed by that, either. See how that works?

I guess I'm an extraordinary person, since I have no trouble picking out games that I want to play from the library that Sony is offering. In fact, I'm quite pleased that I have a wide selection to choose from, both for myself and my kid, and I don't need any other gaming machines. Plus, I get what I consider to be the best exclusives. Should I be overwhelmed somehow and quit playing altogether? How does this "too many games" thing work in real life?



Nautilus said:
twintail said:

Doesnt really matter if they were cross gen, they still appealed to a mass market. BF, AC, CoD, Fifa. PS4 had these big IPs at launch. Sure, MS and Ninty had misteps. But likewise, the PS4 was better priced than both (X1 was overpriced with weaker hardware, WiiU wasnt cheap enough compared to the power differce). Sony had better marketting, and for the first 6 months a larger library of games. Sony also continued to push the future vision of PS4 more. They had the UC4 tease on launch day, a month later they had PSX straight after TGA, with gameplay of UC4, new details on other strong excluies like Bloodborne and UD, SF5 announced as an exclusive etc. A lo of httings were happening in the first 6 or so months for PS4 that chalking up its inital success to competetior mistakes is just short sighed to what was actually happening during this period. It was contributing factor, but not more 'largely' contributing that other important factors.

I mean, im not really sure how you can use VG forums as some example that Switch sales pass those that are mainly Nintendo fans. THe vast majority of console buyers are not o video game forums. of course the Switch is a success. But the 3DS was a success at launch too. THe WiiU was also a success at launch. If you consider that console nintendo fans are not always the same as the handheld sales, then having a device that does both console and portable means its attracting both Nintendo user bases. Hence why ppl are playing the waiting game to see how things go because we dont really know (as you even said) who is actually buying the device. At this point is is all just conjecture nd you are right, selling so well is obviously a sign that it should stay healthy, but we just dont know. Siwthc isnt just going to stay healthy based on the info we have now... we need to se how paid online affects it , how possily the majority of big 3rd party western titles skipping the device for holidays will affect it. There are a lot of variables at play.

and just because teh Switch has quality titles doesnt mean that it has quantity and vareity. Those are not really the same factors. And the only 3 90 titles are an originally WIiu exclusive being given a Switch release, and a port of a Wiiu title. At E3 we will definitey have a better idea of their software scope fro all fronts.

I think we can all agree Switch was never going to fail like the WiiU. Just being portable made that pretty clear. Short term Switch is doing well. Mid term it should be as well. We will have to see.

As for the first paragraph, you just said what I had basically said.PS4 succeeded on the promise on the great games and the screw up of the other two.I do think its largely, or most due(choose what term you prefer), to the screw up, but what you said is basically what I think.

I said forums in general and youtubers reflect the general line of though about how more core and hardcore gamers perceive the Switch.If you go to youtube now and see videos about their opinions about what they think about the Switch, most oof them will be positive.And there is a big difference betwenn these systems launch.3DS and the Wii U sold well at their respective launches... for about two or three weeks.After that, you could easily find them at astore shelves, and after the first quarter, shipments plummeted.3Ds, as we all know, eventually recovered, but the Wii U did not.It did so bad that it shipped around 4 millions(pulling the number out of my head) for only the first year!The Switch, on the other hand, is constantly selling out and demand is extremely high.And even if demand was met, Im 99% sure sales wouldnt just plummet.They would just stabilize at a good number(thinking around 400- 500k worldwide).Hell, the Switch is starting to outsell the Wii U and the 3dS combined in Japan.That says something.

Well, for your third paragraph, Im giving the Switch the benefit of the doubt.For now, it does have diversity.Each first party game belongs to a different genre, and there will be about 8 games in total from Nintendo alone this year.But yeah, at E3 we will see what the Switch will hold for 2018( or at least get a better idea at it) and see if the third party support will improve.I mean, I still epect little support from the west at this E3, but Japan should start showing its support.If the west ever start to support it, we will only see it in 2018.And honestly, even if it dosent get as much suppport as we all hope, Nintendo could still carry it.I mean, just look at the Wii and the 3DS as an example, both of which had little to modest support.(Im not counting shovelware here as support)

 

Please dont lump my view into yours. You clearly believe competitor problems  (above everything else) = PS4 early success. I dont. 

Again, with 2 different userbases (consoles+handheld) potentially buying into the Switch, it selling out doesnt tell us anything about mass market appeal. It could just as likely tell us that 2 different Nintendo device demographics are buying into this single device. 

Outselling the 3DS and WiiU weekly at this stage means almost nothing. WiiU has been dead and Switch basically serves as a 3DS successor more than anyhing else. Outselling 2 old machines right now doesnt say anything, except the natural response that WiiU and 3DS owners are both jumping in on Switch. 

Wii got a lot of 3rd party support. Im surprised ppl think otherwise. 3DS drop in support shows with its massive drop in sales compared to DS, and still below the PSP. So 3rd party support is going to be important because as the WiiU shows: Nintendo alone doesnt really cut it. The only positive for Nintendo is that Switch can become their Pokemon, Fire Emblem and Animal Crossing machine. But that is hardly variety at this stage for a Nintendo device. 

Variety just because Nintendo has IPs that exist in different genres basically makes you entire thread pointless. Nintendo learned to have different types of games from genres they have been making for years doesnt exactly fit your topic MO that they are doing what Sony is doing. Not are they only not doing what Sony is doing so far (tons of different games from a wide variety of publishers) but its something they have been doing for years already. 



twintail said:
Nautilus said:

As for the first paragraph, you just said what I had basically said.PS4 succeeded on the promise on the great games and the screw up of the other two.I do think its largely, or most due(choose what term you prefer), to the screw up, but what you said is basically what I think.

I said forums in general and youtubers reflect the general line of though about how more core and hardcore gamers perceive the Switch.If you go to youtube now and see videos about their opinions about what they think about the Switch, most oof them will be positive.And there is a big difference betwenn these systems launch.3DS and the Wii U sold well at their respective launches... for about two or three weeks.After that, you could easily find them at astore shelves, and after the first quarter, shipments plummeted.3Ds, as we all know, eventually recovered, but the Wii U did not.It did so bad that it shipped around 4 millions(pulling the number out of my head) for only the first year!The Switch, on the other hand, is constantly selling out and demand is extremely high.And even if demand was met, Im 99% sure sales wouldnt just plummet.They would just stabilize at a good number(thinking around 400- 500k worldwide).Hell, the Switch is starting to outsell the Wii U and the 3dS combined in Japan.That says something.

Well, for your third paragraph, Im giving the Switch the benefit of the doubt.For now, it does have diversity.Each first party game belongs to a different genre, and there will be about 8 games in total from Nintendo alone this year.But yeah, at E3 we will see what the Switch will hold for 2018( or at least get a better idea at it) and see if the third party support will improve.I mean, I still epect little support from the west at this E3, but Japan should start showing its support.If the west ever start to support it, we will only see it in 2018.And honestly, even if it dosent get as much suppport as we all hope, Nintendo could still carry it.I mean, just look at the Wii and the 3DS as an example, both of which had little to modest support.(Im not counting shovelware here as support)

 

Please dont lump my view into yours. You clearly believe competitor problems  (above everything else) = PS4 early success. I dont. 

Again, with 2 different userbases (consoles+handheld) potentially buying into the Switch, it selling out doesnt tell us anything about mass market appeal. It could just as likely tell us that 2 different Nintendo device demographics are buying into this single device. 

Outselling the 3DS and WiiU weekly at this stage means almost nothing. WiiU has been dead and Switch basically serves as a 3DS successor more than anyhing else. Outselling 2 old machines right now doesnt say anything, except the natural response that WiiU and 3DS owners are both jumping in on Switch. 

Wii got a lot of 3rd party support. Im surprised ppl think otherwise. 3DS drop in support shows with its massive drop in sales compared to DS, and still below the PSP. So 3rd party support is going to be important because as the WiiU shows: Nintendo alone doesnt really cut it. The only positive for Nintendo is that Switch can become their Pokemon, Fire Emblem and Animal Crossing machine. But that is hardly variety at this stage for a Nintendo device. 

Variety just because Nintendo has IPs that exist in different genres basically makes you entire thread pointless. Nintendo learned to have different types of games from genres they have been making for years doesnt exactly fit your topic MO that they are doing what Sony is doing. Not are they only not doing what Sony is doing so far (tons of different games from a wide variety of publishers) but its something they have been doing for years already. 

I never lumped my views into yours.You simply resaid everything(in that past post) I said from the beginning:That the screw up from Nintendo and MS, coupled with the promise of a great future, is what initially sold the PS4.

And yet we have famous youtubers that are known to be mostly Sony fans being really positive about a Nintendo machine for a change.I never said that this is definitive proof, quite the oposite, but given this and the fact that the Switch keeps selling out, Its beyong obvious at this point that the Switch is appealing to the consumer base outside of the Nintendo crowd.Now how much is another question.But that there is an appeal, there is.

I should have stated that the Switch is outselling the Wii U and 3Ds combined with their launch alligned.In the same period that they released(as in the first two months of the Wii U and 3DS  in Japan), the Switch is starting to outsell it.Again, its not a definitive proof that its going to be a success in the long run, but this coupled with the other things points that the Switch will do at least better than the Wii U(It isnt that much, but its something).

Ehhhh not really.Alot of the support that the Wii got were shovelwares(Party games, really simple games, or just straight bad games).It did have modest support, dont get me wrong, but its not as good as you say.And your Wii U example is horrible.The Wii U didnt fail just because of lack of third party.It was a variety of missteps by Nintendo(ended up being too expensive to manufacture, bad marketing, complete lack of first party games in the first year,a concept that was not that well thought, etc).People mistakenly put Wii U failure mostly due to lack of third party, and thats a common mistake.

And another thign that kinda pisses me off is the line of thinking "Oh, Nintendo will only be successful if they put a Pokemon game on their system".No.Nintendo can be successful and push systems without Pokemon.Dont get me wrong, Pokemon is a gigantic IP and is very important.But Pokemon by itself wont make a successful console, and a Nintendo machine can be successful without it.Justlook at Zelda.BOTW has a real chance of passing the 10 millions mark.Mario Kart 8 Deluxe had its best opening in US ever.Splatoon is bound to put Japan on fire, maybe with the same effect as a Pokemon game.Nintendo is more than Pokemon, Animal Crossing or FE.

As I said to Rol, I should have written that this variety is important, and is a lesson learned from Sony, in the sense that they are putting this much variety in such a short time.While Sony has the third parties to make the hard work for him, Nintendo needs to put the hard work itself, because it dosent have the same luxury than Sony.So its in that sense that they learned from them and thats why it is so important.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

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Dante9 said:
Areym said:
Well, as somebody eloquently put it, having too many games is a bad thing, you know. It's overwhelming to the user so they shouldn't take that note from Sony who puts out too many games.

Whoever said that didn't really have anything to say. Too many games? That's an argument against Sony? Wow, that really shows that there really is no arguing against what they are doing. You know, I think there's more than one or two flavors of ice cream or whatever out there and I don't think people are overwhelmed by that, either. See how that works?

I guess I'm an extraordinary person, since I have no trouble picking out games that I want to play from the library that Sony is offering. In fact, I'm quite pleased that I have a wide selection to choose from, both for myself and my kid, and I don't need any other gaming machines. Plus, I get what I consider to be the best exclusives. Should I be overwhelmed somehow and quit playing altogether? How does this "too many games" thing work in real life?

yeah I waas blown away by such an ass backwards comment, saw it a while back before the launch of the Switch. Just cause there's a lot of good offerings doesn't mean every PS$ owner will pick up everything there is, we have options. I have been buying less since I have less time to play now so I just buy the stuff I really want and leave other games as rentals or bargain bin buys. Nintendo would be wise to keep realeasing some of their more niche games like pikmin or wonderful 101, which may not be Halo or CoD FW million sellers but shows that they aren't afraid to release more focused games, it just build a good relationship with the customer who love these smaller, lesser known games.



"Trick shot? The trick is NOT to get shot." - Lucian

RolStoppable said:
This is a case of blind admiration for Sony.

Nintendo had good marketing campaigns before the PS4 (remember "Wii would like to play"?), so it's not like Nintendo had to look at what Sony was doing.

Games-wise, Nintendo isn't really doing anything different than what they've done since forever. The one major difference is the timing of the releases. Compare what Nintendo is releasing in year 1 for Switch to what Sony released in year 1 for the PS4 and you should realize that Nintendo is not following Sony at all. All Nintendo is doing is proper execution of what they have had since a long time.

Lastly, it isn't hard to say whether Switch will be a success or failure. It was clear since the presentation on January 12th that Switch was going to be a hit. One only needed to properly analyze the system and its games, and the only reasonable conclusion was success.

So much this ^



Nautilus said:

I never lumped my views into yours.You simply resaid everything(in that past post) I said from the beginning:That the screw up from Nintendo and MS, coupled with the promise of a great future, is what initially sold the PS4.

And yet we have famous youtubers that are known to be mostly Sony fans being really positive about a Nintendo machine for a change.I never said that this is definitive proof, quite the oposite, but given this and the fact that the Switch keeps selling out, Its beyong obvious at this point that the Switch is appealing to the consumer base outside of the Nintendo crowd.Now how much is another question.But that there is an appeal, there is.

I should have stated that the Switch is outselling the Wii U and 3Ds combined with their launch alligned.In the same period that they released(as in the first two months of the Wii U and 3DS  in Japan), the Switch is starting to outsell it.Again, its not a definitive proof that its going to be a success in the long run, but this coupled with the other things points that the Switch will do at least better than the Wii U(It isnt that much, but its something).

Ehhhh not really.Alot of the support that the Wii got were shovelwares(Party games, really simple games, or just straight bad games).It did have modest support, dont get me wrong, but its not as good as you say.And your Wii U example is horrible.The Wii U didnt fail just because of lack of third party.It was a variety of missteps by Nintendo(ended up being too expensive to manufacture, bad marketing, complete lack of first party games in the first year,a concept that was not that well thought, etc).People mistakenly put Wii U failure mostly due to lack of third party, and thats a common mistake.

And another thign that kinda pisses me off is the line of thinking "Oh, Nintendo will only be successful if they put a Pokemon game on their system".No.Nintendo can be successful and push systems without Pokemon.Dont get me wrong, Pokemon is a gigantic IP and is very important.But Pokemon by itself wont make a successful console, and a Nintendo machine can be successful without it.Justlook at Zelda.BOTW has a real chance of passing the 10 millions mark.Mario Kart 8 Deluxe had its best opening in US ever.Splatoon is bound to put Japan on fire, maybe with the same effect as a Pokemon game.Nintendo is more than Pokemon, Animal Crossing or FE.

As I said to Rol, I should have written that this variety is important, and is a lesson learned from Sony, in the sense that they are putting this much variety in such a short time.While Sony has the third parties to make the hard work for him, Nintendo needs to put the hard work itself, because it dosent have the same luxury than Sony.So its in that sense that they learned from them and thats why it is so important.

Its because you are placing greater importance on one aspect that I am not, hence why my opinion is not like yours. 

 Youtubers, who make their money off getting ppl to watch their videos and therefore basing their content on what is popular is not proof of anything. 

Well no this would be wrong. The Switch has only just passed the WiiU, launch aligned, in Japan. And still behind the 3DS. Its not doing better than both combined, at all. 

All really good selling hardware gets a bunch of shovelware but please, the Wii got a lot of bankable IPS. THe likes of NBA, CoD, DJ and Guitar Hero, Skylanders, 007, MH, RE, Fifa, Madden, NFS, Tiger Woods, Pro Evo, Lego games, Rock Band, some Rockstar support, Sonic, DQ, WWE, Naruto, Far Cry, Just Dance, PoP, Rabbids, Ghost Recon, Splinter Cell , and of course the exclusive titles of which quite a few were good.

Fair enough, WiiU had many problems. It also had a lack of 3rd party support, which was felt even with the 3DS. Of course I cna agree that there are many other equally contributing factors.

Pokemon is pretty much one of NIntendos dominating IPs, more so than Zelda, or Splatoon will ever be. No one is saying that Ninteno will only be successful with Pokemon. THey are saying that Pokemon is what is guarenteed to help them, if things go South. And that is true. its a marquee IP that brings in consumers.

Fair point, that I can understand and see. But variety is not going to only come from Nintendo. Sony 1st party is ripe with vareity too but its not what ppl use when talking about software quantity and variety on PS devices. 



Ka-pi96 said:
KLXVER said:

What is that? Becoming Sony?

Nope, that some people (points at self) like achievement systems. I guess they could learn that from MS too... but nope, they haven't from either of them so

yeah my buddy has ps4 and x1 and he will buy the ps4 version always if its on both because of his achievement collection on that system. lol

 

 

i think its a bit lame....but dont tell him... so it would be cool if nintendo added it for people who like fake money.  

 

 

 

*yes i know its not fake money but its similar in nature and function.*



twintail said:
Nautilus said:

I never lumped my views into yours.You simply resaid everything(in that past post) I said from the beginning:That the screw up from Nintendo and MS, coupled with the promise of a great future, is what initially sold the PS4.

And yet we have famous youtubers that are known to be mostly Sony fans being really positive about a Nintendo machine for a change.I never said that this is definitive proof, quite the oposite, but given this and the fact that the Switch keeps selling out, Its beyong obvious at this point that the Switch is appealing to the consumer base outside of the Nintendo crowd.Now how much is another question.But that there is an appeal, there is.

I should have stated that the Switch is outselling the Wii U and 3Ds combined with their launch alligned.In the same period that they released(as in the first two months of the Wii U and 3DS  in Japan), the Switch is starting to outsell it.Again, its not a definitive proof that its going to be a success in the long run, but this coupled with the other things points that the Switch will do at least better than the Wii U(It isnt that much, but its something).

Ehhhh not really.Alot of the support that the Wii got were shovelwares(Party games, really simple games, or just straight bad games).It did have modest support, dont get me wrong, but its not as good as you say.And your Wii U example is horrible.The Wii U didnt fail just because of lack of third party.It was a variety of missteps by Nintendo(ended up being too expensive to manufacture, bad marketing, complete lack of first party games in the first year,a concept that was not that well thought, etc).People mistakenly put Wii U failure mostly due to lack of third party, and thats a common mistake.

And another thign that kinda pisses me off is the line of thinking "Oh, Nintendo will only be successful if they put a Pokemon game on their system".No.Nintendo can be successful and push systems without Pokemon.Dont get me wrong, Pokemon is a gigantic IP and is very important.But Pokemon by itself wont make a successful console, and a Nintendo machine can be successful without it.Justlook at Zelda.BOTW has a real chance of passing the 10 millions mark.Mario Kart 8 Deluxe had its best opening in US ever.Splatoon is bound to put Japan on fire, maybe with the same effect as a Pokemon game.Nintendo is more than Pokemon, Animal Crossing or FE.

As I said to Rol, I should have written that this variety is important, and is a lesson learned from Sony, in the sense that they are putting this much variety in such a short time.While Sony has the third parties to make the hard work for him, Nintendo needs to put the hard work itself, because it dosent have the same luxury than Sony.So its in that sense that they learned from them and thats why it is so important.

Its because you are placing greater importance on one aspect that I am not, hence why my opinion is not like yours. 

 Youtubers, who make their money off getting ppl to watch their videos and therefore basing their content on what is popular is not proof of anything. 

Well no this would be wrong. The Switch has only just passed the WiiU, launch aligned, in Japan. And still behind the 3DS. Its not doing better than both combined, at all. 

All really good selling hardware gets a bunch of shovelware but please, the Wii got a lot of bankable IPS. THe likes of NBA, CoD, DJ and Guitar Hero, Skylanders, 007, MH, RE, Fifa, Madden, NFS, Tiger Woods, Pro Evo, Lego games, Rock Band, some Rockstar support, Sonic, DQ, WWE, Naruto, Far Cry, Just Dance, PoP, Rabbids, Ghost Recon, Splinter Cell , and of course the exclusive titles of which quite a few were good.

Fair enough, WiiU had many problems. It also had a lack of 3rd party support, which was felt even with the 3DS. Of course I cna agree that there are many other equally contributing factors.

Pokemon is pretty much one of NIntendos dominating IPs, more so than Zelda, or Splatoon will ever be. No one is saying that Ninteno will only be successful with Pokemon. THey are saying that Pokemon is what is guarenteed to help them, if things go South. And that is true. its a marquee IP that brings in consumers.

Fair point, that I can understand and see. But variety is not going to only come from Nintendo. Sony 1st party is ripe with vareity too but its not what ppl use when talking about software quantity and variety on PS devices. 

For your first point, fair enough.

It kind of is.Its not hard proof, but it is a strong indicator of what the general public thinks about the console.Sure, there is one youtuber here or there that exagerates things just to get the clicks and its not an actual representation of his or her opinion, but thats not the case of the more serious ones.

As for the sales, I was saying the week on week sales.Overall it still didnt, but since it is opening up an davantage, it soon will.

As for the games you listed, part of them are party games and not all of them aare quality titles, and the other part are extremely downgraded ports of annual franchises, to the poin that they feel like different games.Not saying thats a bad third aprty support, but its not something you really brag about.

As for the Pokemon point, I dont really agree, but I dont contest either.Pokemon is so important that can turn the tides of things.And though I believe Splatoon 2 will have a similar effect that Pokemon has on Japan, that is still in the future and dosent serve as much of an argument.Other than that, I can agree, just not with the same.... enthusiasm.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1