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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Bloomberg: Nintendo Traders Signal Switch Could Be Bigger Hit Than the Wii

Miyamotoo on 12 April 2017
Kane1389 said:
Miyamotoo said:

Not to mention that has one of best games ever like launch title.

 

You can call it like ever you want, my point is same, look how 3DS performed last year compared to 2015. and how still performing currently in its 7. year on market. Or you can look how PS3/Xbox360 performed in 2011/2012/2013 yers compared to Wii.

Switch is already massivley underpowered as it is, you expect it to be relevant in the future when PS5 realeases? It would be 3 generations behind at that point.

Wii was even more underpowered compared to PS3/Xbox360 than Switch is compared even to Pro or Scorpio. DS was also underpowered, 3DS also. Switch like hybrid device with current power will stay relevant until Switch 2 don't arrives (just look how very underpowered 3DS is curently selling in its 7. year on market), also Switch will multiple refresh of hardware similar like 3DS had with 3DS XL, New 3DS or 2DS. Saying that Switch is not strong but has very modern tech and architecture. Generations of consoles are not detriment buy power.



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Soundwave on 12 April 2017
Louie said:
Soundwave said:

I think people need to stop comparing it to the Wii period, Switch is not a casual-centric gaming device.

Sure it has some nods to that audience, but that's about it, it's a gaming hybrid device for people who need to have core games with them even when they go outside the house, which to me is a hardcore proposition in its own right. That's the "wow" of the Swtich, not that it can run some small simple game, the 3DS can do that too, it's that it can play a big giant adventure game like Zelda or Skyrim anywhere. As such it has appeal even to PS4/XBox gamers. 

That's going to be the main appeal, it's what's driving adoption right now in Zelda.

If things like 1,2 Switch and Just Dance end up driving Switch adoption and selling tens of millions of copies, ok, then you can say otherwise, but right now, nope.

Even the marketing is basically majority focused on adult males, who are definitely not the novice gamer type.

The challenge for Nintendo now is to keep games like Zelda coming, games that really excite/interest enthusiast gamers. Switch will have to succeed on its own merits, it unlikely to have that Wii/DS casual appeal, but on the other hand it's wide functionality as a gaming device can bring more core gamers back towards buying one (perhaps in addition to a PS4) than other "failed" Nintendo platforms like GameCube did. So it has that going for it. 

The whole notion of "casual" and "hardcore" gamers just needs to be thrown out of the window. It doesn't serve any purpose and it is a term that was used by marketing departments and "analysts" during the 7th generation.

The Switch has mass market appeal, that about sums it up. People who play lots of games and people who only play games a few hours per week are interested in it. 

The Wii wasn't aimed at "casuals", it was a disruptive product. The disruptive technology used was motion controls. The Switch, provided it gets the right software, will grab a lot of the Wii market, because it is also based on motion controls (Mario Kart, ARMS, Splatoon all use them). The reasons the Wii U failed was because Nintendo didn't follow the script: To improve upon a disruptive product, you have to enhance the disruptive characteristics. Christensen calls this "moving upmarket". In the case of the Wii U that should have been improved motion controls. Instead we got the gamepad and customers (predictably, because that's what the research said) were not interested in that.

The Switch does offer improved motion controls and more complex software, which is exactly what the textbook demands. For example, a Switch Sports that focused on competitive play (online and offline) based on accurate motion controls would be a textbook example of "moving upmarket". ARMS could very well be another example, but it's too early to tell. Splatoon for Wii U was one of the few last gen games that fit the description and it sold extremely well. 

The research, based on a sample size of 300,000 companies across dozens of industries predicts this: If Nintendo moves upmarket (Switch Sports, ARMS, Splatoon, Mario Kart, etc. with accurate motion controls, more complex motion-based games and a stronger emphasis on competition, along with more games focusing on playing together while providing an actual challenge) the Switch will succeed. If Nintendo concentrates on "core gamers" (3D Mario, Xenoblade, stuff like Bayonetta) the Switch will quickly lose its appeal and become a niche product. And as for your Zelda argument: The reason Zelda sells consoles is exactly *because* it broadened the franchise's appeal beyond the traditional Nintendo customer. More people than before are interested in it because it is an open world game. It has mass market appeal! Just like GTA, which definitely didn't sell its one gazillion units to hardcore gamers. 

I'm fine with throwing it out the window because that Wii Sports/Fit loving audience doesn't even exist anymore anyway in a relevant way to the market we're talking about. They're gone to phones/tablets and can't even be convinced to spend $10 on even a Mario game anymore. 

So that's fine. It will make Nintendo a better company to not rely on such fad-like crazes and have to focus in more on what is actually giving them success today -- Zelda: BotW, Splatoon, etc. 

The only game that requires motion support from Nintendo is 1,2 Switch, ARMS and Mario Kart can be played with regular controls. And 1,2 Switch is not what's driving Switch adoption. 

To be honest the entire Wii line can just go to the graveyard and stay there. It's over, done, finished. I don't care if it was "disruptive" or "gimmicky" or whatever. It's over. 

This is Switch's time now and Switch is a very different system.

And yes sure, Zelda is appealling to modern gamers, I've had several Playstation/XBox owning fans come up to me and ask me if Zelda is as good as what they're hearing. They're curious about it. Largely because Nintendo allowed the dev team to actually look at games on the PS/XBox and modernize Zelda around that. 

That's appealling to today's core consumers. Those are the guys who want it and are lining up for Switch, it's not soccer moms like the Wii. Switch is it's own thing and will have it's own legacy and Nintendo was wise to ditch the Wii brand entirely. 



Magnus on 12 April 2017
Miyamotoo said:
Nautilus said:

Except it is a hybrid.You dont need any chips in the dock itself for it to be a home console.It just needs to have the functionality of one.Home consoles are more of a concept, rather than a piece of tecnology.A home console is something that plays mainly games(as in it is optimized for that) and displays that image on the tv, while you control it via a controller, but the unit itself is not portable.And the Switch is ALSO that(you can treat it as only that, if you so like).If we dont take that concept as the definition, then the PS4 and XOne are actually just very limited PCs, that happens to only play games.

The Switch is both parts equal home and handheld console.I can understand why you would prefer using more one or the other, and thus being more of a handheld for you, but its a hybrid at heart.And hey, if you wanna go by the official statement, the Switch is a home console(according to Nintendo), so there is that.

Great post.

Its funny how people see Switch hardware and say it's handled not home console only because has mobile hardware in it or Switch itself has mobile form factor, but dont realise that whole Switch is made from ground that can act, to be used and to give full home experience also, and actual Switch does that.

It's very obvious that Switch is true hybrid console of home console and handheld console, and how it would be used depends only from each consumer.

 

Magnus said:

Need for Speed was not a CPU intensive game so it could run well on Wii U. But most 360 and PS3 games weren't like that. EA broke with Nintendo because the Wii U couldn't run Frostbite.

EA (like most other 3rd parties) abandoned Wii U because terrible sales of Wii U.

EA abandoned Wii U before the system launch. They flatout said that they would not support the system beyond launch before the Wii U launch.

That was a clock rate issue.  The majority of game engines were developed around PS3 and X360 which both had CPU's clocked at 3.2 Ghz.  The Wii U's CPU was clocked lower and hence had difficulty running those game engines.  PS4 and Xone have lower clocks too and if those engines were simply ported (rather than rebuilt for them), they'd have issues too.   

So it's not so much it was weak as it was a matter of the game engines being developed around an expected CPU speed.  Would you say the PS4 and Xone CPU's are weaker than their predecessors?

You can't compare CPU speed like that between different architectures. The Jaguar CPU on PS4 and XBox One is stronger than Cell or Xenon. But Wii U's espresso is weaker and lacks SIMD instructions. And launch games that ran on PS4 and XBox One were often built on the same engines as 360 and PS3 games yet they still looked much better on the next-gen consoles. If the Wii U was a step up from 360 and PS3 it should run games better than on those consoles, even at launch.



iron_megalith on 13 April 2017
Nautilus said:
iron_megalith said:

No it's not. Mainly it is a handheld console. Like I said, the dock absolutely has nothing special. The whole hardware is inside the Switch "Handheld" device. Connecting it to the dock just removes the restrictions.

Another example Laptop is not a PC.

Except it is a hybrid.You dont need any chips in the dock itself for it to be a home console.It just needs to have the functionality of one.Home consoles are more of a concept, rather than a piece of tecnology.A home console is something that plays mainly games(as in it is optimized for that) and displays that image on the tv, while you control it via a controller, but the unit itself is not portable.And the Switch is ALSO that(you can treat it as only that, if you so like).If we dont take that concept as the definition, then the PS4 and XOne are actually just very limited PCs, that happens to only play games.

The Switch is both parts equal home and handheld console.I can understand why you would prefer using more one or the other, and thus being more of a handheld for you, but its a hybrid at heart.And hey, if you wanna go by the official statement, the Switch is a home console(according to Nintendo), so there is that.

Well a Wii is not a Hybrid my friend. It doesn't really matter how you twist it.

You cannot play the Wii on an airplane/bus/out in the park. NDS you can bring it on an airplane. And you probably can plug it elsewhere given you have the tools therefore enabling to becomes almost like the Switch.



Miyamotoo on 13 April 2017
iron_megalith said:
Nautilus said:

Except it is a hybrid.You dont need any chips in the dock itself for it to be a home console.It just needs to have the functionality of one.Home consoles are more of a concept, rather than a piece of tecnology.A home console is something that plays mainly games(as in it is optimized for that) and displays that image on the tv, while you control it via a controller, but the unit itself is not portable.And the Switch is ALSO that(you can treat it as only that, if you so like).If we dont take that concept as the definition, then the PS4 and XOne are actually just very limited PCs, that happens to only play games.

The Switch is both parts equal home and handheld console.I can understand why you would prefer using more one or the other, and thus being more of a handheld for you, but its a hybrid at heart.And hey, if you wanna go by the official statement, the Switch is a home console(according to Nintendo), so there is that.

Well a Wii is not a Hybrid my friend. It doesn't really matter how you twist it.

You cannot play the Wii on an airplane/bus/out in the park. NDS you can bring it on an airplane. And you probably can plug it elsewhere given you have the tools therefore enabling to becomes almost like the Switch.

What are you talking about!?

Wii is just a home console, NDS is just handheld, Switch is both, you can use it right of box like real handheld or like real home console.



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Soundwave on 13 April 2017
Kane1389 said:
Miyamotoo said:

Not to mention that has one of best games ever like launch title.

 

You can call it like ever you want, my point is same, look how 3DS performed last year compared to 2015. and how still performing currently in its 7. year on market. Or you can look how PS3/Xbox360 performed in 2011/2012/2013 yers compared to Wii.

Switch is already massivley underpowered as it is, you expect it to be relevant in the future when PS5 realeases? It would be 3 generations behind at that point.

There will likely be more powerful Switch models by the time PS5 launches.

Tegra Xavier will be available by 2019, that should give you PS4 visuals on the go. 



Nautilus on 13 April 2017
iron_megalith said:
Nautilus said:

Except it is a hybrid.You dont need any chips in the dock itself for it to be a home console.It just needs to have the functionality of one.Home consoles are more of a concept, rather than a piece of tecnology.A home console is something that plays mainly games(as in it is optimized for that) and displays that image on the tv, while you control it via a controller, but the unit itself is not portable.And the Switch is ALSO that(you can treat it as only that, if you so like).If we dont take that concept as the definition, then the PS4 and XOne are actually just very limited PCs, that happens to only play games.

The Switch is both parts equal home and handheld console.I can understand why you would prefer using more one or the other, and thus being more of a handheld for you, but its a hybrid at heart.And hey, if you wanna go by the official statement, the Switch is a home console(according to Nintendo), so there is that.

Well a Wii is not a Hybrid my friend. It doesn't really matter how you twist it.

You cannot play the Wii on an airplane/bus/out in the park. NDS you can bring it on an airplane. And you probably can plug it elsewhere given you have the tools therefore enabling to becomes almost like the Switch.

What?Yeah, the Wii is a home console.Im talking about the Switch.This is the one thats a hybrid.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

iron_megalith on 13 April 2017
Miyamotoo said:
iron_megalith said:

Well a Wii is not a Hybrid my friend. It doesn't really matter how you twist it.

You cannot play the Wii on an airplane/bus/out in the park. NDS you can bring it on an airplane. And you probably can plug it elsewhere given you have the tools therefore enabling to becomes almost like the Switch.

What are you talking about!?

Wii is just a home console, NDS is just handheld, Switch is both, you can use it right of box like real handheld or like real home console.

And somehow people lost track of this whole chain of replies. My main argument was it was not comparable to the Wii but more on NDS.

You can slap "Hybrid" if it's comfortable to you but the fact that the Switch itself limits its power when undocked just screams portable to me.

I'm tired of this discussion. I've made my point. If someone still insists its a "Home Console" then let's agree to disagree.



Miyamotoo on 13 April 2017
iron_megalith said:
Miyamotoo said:

What are you talking about!?

Wii is just a home console, NDS is just handheld, Switch is both, you can use it right of box like real handheld or like real home console.

And somehow people lost track of this whole chain of replies. My main argument was it was not comparable to the Wii but more on NDS.

You can slap "Hybrid" if it's comfortable to you but the fact that the Switch itself limits its power when undocked just screams portable to me.

I'm tired of this discussion. I've made my point. If someone still insists its a "Home Console" then let's agree to disagree.

It way very clear that Nautilus was talking about Switch bein hybrid, not Wii.

You do realise that Switch runs at higher power when is docked and increasing native resolution for TV play!? You do realise that Switch even in handheld mode is more stronger than Wii U (only home console)!?

Actually you didn't make any point, its obvious you ignoring some clear facts that clearly pointing why Switch is true hybrid of home console and handheld.



iron_megalith on 13 April 2017
Miyamotoo said:
iron_megalith said:

And somehow people lost track of this whole chain of replies. My main argument was it was not comparable to the Wii but more on NDS.

You can slap "Hybrid" if it's comfortable to you but the fact that the Switch itself limits its power when undocked just screams portable to me.

I'm tired of this discussion. I've made my point. If someone still insists its a "Home Console" then let's agree to disagree.

It way very clear that Nautilus was talking about Switch bein hybrid, not Wii.

You do realise that Switch runs at higher power when is docked and increasing native resolution for TV play!? You do realise that Switch even in handheld mode is more stronger than Wii U (only home console)!?

Actually you didn't make any point, its obvious you ignoring some clear facts that clearly pointing why Switch is true hybrid of home console and handheld.

Whatever dude. You simply repeated my points in your post and worded them as your own. Then you have the gall to say that I don't have a point? Here's your reply.