Forums - Nintendo Discussion - (APRIL'S FOOLS!) "Nintendo should make a transgender Link in the new Zelda game"

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mornelithe said:

It IS a social narrative, and let's be crystal clear here, everytime an LGBT, or PoC character is written you get the avalanche of 'written by a white dude' (even though, you know, where Nintendo is concerned, the vast majority were written by PoC) critiques.  So, hire LGBT workers who can create realistic characters, they can relate to.  Nothing wrong with that.  But, you're not exactly giving that LGBT individual any kind of freedom when you force them to wrap Hyrule around it.  A new world, new universe etc... gives them the freedom to create whatever they want to.  Instead of, you know, trying to make it automatically profitable by using the Zelda name.

As far as the 'standard male save the day hero' blah blah blah, seriously, broaden your horizons, there are thousands of different types of games and stories out there (Hi, Metroid called, and says your narrative is shite).  Just like there are with books (and yes, they still write books where a guy saves the day), and movies (same).  Somehow, there's room for all to co-exist in books and movies, but not in games, eh?  In games a guy saving the day, well goddamn we have to do something about that right?  Not, you know, create our own unique characters, we need to take everyone else's away.  Now that's what I call inclusive, that's what I call adding something positive to the industry.

As I said, hire LGBT writers/directors etc... give them free reign.  And you can try to explain it however you want, but I'll never understand taking an established character and wrapping a narrative around it, other than for what it is.  Trying to get the game to be profitable before it even launches by latching onto an established name.  

 

I think you're missing the point. There's no need to hire LGBT writers; what the article points out is that a well-established franchise like Zelda isn't going to suffer because, surprise, they could ditch their stereotiped hero and show that there are different Links that could take his place: like a transgender one. Link is a reincarnated hero in each version, WW's link isn't the same as SS's Link, but they're always a cliché white male who saves the day.

I'm not too good explaining this, so I suggest going to the original source (where the full article lies, I only copy/pasted what I thought were the most important parts), and Anita actually makes great points when pointing out the importance of swapping this archetype of a hero for a less common one. It's the virtue of variety, don't think this is just for the transgender collective's sake. (Hence why your point about Amita defending a collective that isn't herself makes no sense). There's no point in creating a new world (I mean, there is, but not in this context) when we can take a established one and show that everyone can be a hero. Look at Hyrule Warriors. They added Linkle without any much trouble, didn't they? Did anyone ask for it? Probably not, but in a stroke of genius and tolerance, Nintendo rolled with it. They just need to do the same here.

Again, it's not social narrative. It's diversification. Diversification is good.



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Shiken said:

It is stupid because it would be a blatant kissing up 2 pathetic social justice Warriors. A female link is unnecessary in every sense. However if it were optional then I really would not care to be honest. When it comes to a forced female protagonist however I would much rather have Zelda herself be the hero of that particular story. She is an actual character that has everything to do with the world we are exploring. A female link however is just pointless.

 

It's not kissing up 2 SJW. It's showing your customers that more people outside the stereotiped white male can be the hero (or heroine) of Hyrule. The article isn't calling for a forced change (You should read it, Anita makes the point across better than myself trying to explain it here), but rather, take advantage of the game not being released yet and do the swap. Forced change would be adding a patch that changes the protagonist.

While Zelda as a protagonist isn't a bad idea, and it's been discussed in the past, we've already seen that a Link will be the protagonist, so this will go down on the traditional Zelda structure rather than giving the spotlight to a fresh (or another veteran) character. All this article asks for is that a transgender Link is given the chance to be the heroine in the game. It would be a daring move from Nintendo, and transgender collective could feel identified with the protagonist. Everyone wins.



Why are people so obsessed with this? I mean, it's ridiculous!

I'm Arab, and as we all know, Arabs are pretty much rarely shown in video games. DO I COMPLAIN? No. I do not complain. I realize that if all we do is whine because our stupid little feelings are hurt, then we'll get no progress done. I don't care for arabs to be "appreciated'' more in the video game world. Come on. We've purposely made games like this to escape reality. Why do we need to bring them down to earth?

I mean, Jesus flipping Christ. People will blow up at you for saying or doing anything that doesn't go 100% with their viewpoints.



 

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12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

hershel_layton said:
Why are people so obsessed with this? I mean, it's ridiculous!

I'm Arab, and as we all know, Arabs are pretty much rarely shown in video games. DO I COMPLAIN? No. I do not complain. I realize that if all we do is whine because our stupid little feelings are hurt, then we'll get no progress done. I don't care for arabs to be "appreciated'' more in the video game world. Come on. We've purposely made games like this to escape reality. Why do we need to bring them down to earth?

I mean, Jesus flipping Christ. People will blow up at you for saying or doing anything that doesn't go 100% with their viewpoints.

 

It's not obsession. It is a problem that needs to be adressed.

Maybe you're comfortable with the misrepresentation of arabs in videogames, but the Transgender collective is fed up being always ignored. They're also part of those consumers that make the videogame business thrive and succeed. So, it's only fair that they get the spotlight every once in a while, don't you agree? You should read the full article in the source, it adresses the importance of a transgender protagonist with factual points and solid evidence.

No one is blowing up here, people is just asking for change. Nothing wrong with that, no one is holding up Anouma's family hostage and demands that he changes the main character.



Wright said:
mornelithe said:

It IS a social narrative, and let's be crystal clear here, everytime an LGBT, or PoC character is written you get the avalanche of 'written by a white dude' (even though, you know, where Nintendo is concerned, the vast majority were written by PoC) critiques.  So, hire LGBT workers who can create realistic characters, they can relate to.  Nothing wrong with that.  But, you're not exactly giving that LGBT individual any kind of freedom when you force them to wrap Hyrule around it.  A new world, new universe etc... gives them the freedom to create whatever they want to.  Instead of, you know, trying to make it automatically profitable by using the Zelda name.

As far as the 'standard male save the day hero' blah blah blah, seriously, broaden your horizons, there are thousands of different types of games and stories out there (Hi, Metroid called, and says your narrative is shite).  Just like there are with books (and yes, they still write books where a guy saves the day), and movies (same).  Somehow, there's room for all to co-exist in books and movies, but not in games, eh?  In games a guy saving the day, well goddamn we have to do something about that right?  Not, you know, create our own unique characters, we need to take everyone else's away.  Now that's what I call inclusive, that's what I call adding something positive to the industry.

As I said, hire LGBT writers/directors etc... give them free reign.  And you can try to explain it however you want, but I'll never understand taking an established character and wrapping a narrative around it, other than for what it is.  Trying to get the game to be profitable before it even launches by latching onto an established name.  

 

I think you're missing the point. There's no need to hire LGBT writers; what the article points out is that a well-established franchise like Zelda isn't going to suffer because, surprise, they could ditch their stereotiped hero and show that there are different Links that could take his place: like a transgender one. Link is a reincarnated hero in each version, WW's link isn't the same as SS's Link, but they're always a cliché white male who saves the day.

I'm not too good explaining this, so I suggest going to the original source (where the full article lies, I only copy/pasted what I thought were the most important parts), and Anita actually makes great points when pointing out the importance of swapping this archetype of a hero for a less common one. It's the virtue of variety, don't think this is just for the transgender collective's sake. (Hence why your point about Amita defending a collective that isn't herself makes no sense). There's no point in creating a new world (I mean, there is, but not in this context) when we can take a established one and show that everyone can be a hero. Look at Hyrule Warriors. They added Linkle without any much trouble, didn't they? Did anyone ask for it? Probably not, but in a stroke of genius and tolerance, Nintendo rolled with it. They just need to do the same here.

Again, it's not social narrative. It's diversification. Diversification is good.

Ok my question to you is if this is not a social narrative then why change an establish charater in an establish IP? Why not create a new IP and not pander to the minoraty?Linkle(and any version of fem.Link) in a side game is fine but in a main one is just stupid since it makes no sense.Link is a guy,Zelda a girl and Ganon a pig monster,and if we are to get a female lead in a Zelda game why do we have to change Link? Why can't we just have Zelda as the hero and Link as the prince?

I for one would much rather play a new version of Ocarina were you play the 7 missing  years as Zelda/Sheik than Zelda U with an shoehorn Trans/Fem. Link.Also most of the 3D Zelda's the story is not just the hero saves the princess and in many of them Zelda as a major role in the  story and in 1 there isn't even a princess to save.



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TheLegendofDS said:

Ok my question to you is if this is not a social narrative then why change an establish charater in an establish IP? Why not create a new IP and not pander to the minoraty?Linkle(and any version of fem.Link) in a side game is fine but in a main one is just stupid since it makes no sense.Link is a guy,Zelda a girl and Ganon a pig monster,and if we are to get a female lead in a Zelda game why do we have to change Link? Why can't we just have Zelda as the hero and Link as the prince?

I for one would much rather play a new version of Ocarina were you play the 7 missing  years as Zelda/Sheik than Zelda U with an shoehorn Trans/Fem. Link.Also most of the 3D Zelda's the story is not just the hero saves the princess and in many of them Zelda as a major role in the  story and in 1 there isn't even a princess to save.

 

See, this is where you contradict yourself. You claim that making changes to the main games in the franchise is stupid, because people is already established to be those types. But Ganondorf isn't only a pig monster, he has been changing and evolving into different things from his first iteration until now. He wasn' a pig monster in Wind Waker, was he? You thought that was stupid? Of course not, because characters CAN change. Heck, sometimes he isn't even the villain or is not present at all in certain main entries of the franchise.

So, the fact that Ganondorf change isn't a social narrative, you can agree with that, right? Then why changing Link IS a social narrative? See, a contradiction. That's because changing Link IS NOT a social narrative. It's a sign of a franchise that evolves and diversificates itself, just like Ganondorf ISN'T ALWAYS a pig.

Again, Zelda as a hero would be a good option, but what we've shown already of Zelda U points at Link being in charge, once again. Why not take this oportunity and, you know, just like Ganondorf isn't always a pig, make Link something else than a white male? Your opinion actually supports this view, not the other way around.



To be fair, I don't think it matters. Simply because I don't think the gender identity of Link matters much to his character. So in away it would be a pointless change and in some ways superficial pandering.

I agree with increasing the representations of non-white males in video games, but not with changing established character to do so unless there is a more of a reason than just representing them.

So for Link, even if he is technically multiple people, if you change him to represent other groups then it can't just be solely for that reason, especially since if that is the case you've got no reason to make him Transgender over any other (Non-white male heteronormative groups) such as African Americans, Arabs, Asians, etc, as well as different gender and sexual identies. 



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

Thankfully the mary sue will be a wrestling blog by the end of the month.



Transgender?! How often do you even meet a transgender person? Maybe once a year! Why make a universally popular character be represented by a group of people who make up less than 1‰ of the population?

If we really want diversity and representation we should talk about the next Link being xenophobic or against mass immigration before suggesting he's transgender. A racist Link, that would be diversity for real.

This PC brainwash is disgusting. Always the left wing Marxists coming with these perceived "minorities" who already are over-represented in media.



Wright said:
hershel_layton said:
Why are people so obsessed with this? I mean, it's ridiculous!

I'm Arab, and as we all know, Arabs are pretty much rarely shown in video games. DO I COMPLAIN? No. I do not complain. I realize that if all we do is whine because our stupid little feelings are hurt, then we'll get no progress done. I don't care for arabs to be "appreciated'' more in the video game world. Come on. We've purposely made games like this to escape reality. Why do we need to bring them down to earth?

I mean, Jesus flipping Christ. People will blow up at you for saying or doing anything that doesn't go 100% with their viewpoints.

 

It's not obsession. It is a problem that needs to be adressed.

Maybe you're comfortable with the misrepresentation of arabs in videogames, but the Transgender collective is fed up being always ignored. They're also part of those consumers that make the videogame business thrive and succeed. So, it's only fair that they get the spotlight every once in a while, don't you agree? You should read the full article in the source, it adresses the importance of a transgender protagonist with factual points and solid evidence.

No one is blowing up here, people is just asking for change. Nothing wrong with that, no one is holding up Anouma's family hostage and demands that he changes the main character.

I read it. My criticism was on a whole though. Not just to transgender(they do have it bad), but other people that demand everything is diverse and have all groups feel represented. 

 

The only reason I don't want it for Link is because Sheik would be a more matching character. Makes everyone think she's a boy(even though she isn't in OoT).

 

Also, the article had problems. First off, nintendo never dealt with otherkin. There's a difference between transforming into a badass animal and otherkin.

Secondly, Anita Sarkeesian. Saying the typical audience is "30 year old white[caucasion] males" is absolutely dishonest. Do you truly think the majority of Nintendo's audience is above 30, let alone 25? Most of them are teenage-young adult men and women who love their games for original gameplay. You'll find the "white men" elsewhere, not at Nintendo.


Also, look at the wording. She's so biased it's to the point where I'm cringing. The article is portraying Nintendo as some big, bad villian with the fired worker(who I have nothing against) as some angel that got pursecuted by Nintendo.

 

Adding on, I'm quite sure Nintendo has their own reason for not making any of their current characters transgender- they just never felt the need. As I said, this is video games that we're talking about. Not everyone will be happy. But guess what? Link isn't a white male with white privilege. He's a dude that's an elf(I think).

YET, the reason why I never saw the need for Link being transgender is because most of the Link's from the LoZ franchise look extremely masculine and male-like(especially the voice). The Wii U version could make him look like a girlish boy/boyish girl to allow people to pick whatever the heck they want Link to be. Male, female, transgender male, transgender female...See what I mean?

 

 

 

Link is Nintendo's golden character(well, one of them). I'm pretty sure Nintendo will do whatever they can to keep it like that, now what I mean? They probably know what to do for the best.



 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.