Forums - Sony Discussion - Why a PS4k is not necessarily bad for current PS4 owners

SvennoJ said:

More like the pc market? Later releases, more bugs on release, compatibility issues, more varialble performance?
You generally need a it of overhead on PC to match console visuals and you'll still not get the same stability.

That all can be limited with only 2 hardware specs to cater too. However the extra time spend on optimizing and testing 2 versions, which both share the exact same userbase, has to come from some where. Less time and budget for the actual game / cutting corners somewhere. The same revenue now has to be split accross 2 hardware specs instead of one.

Many scenarios can happen:
- Devs focus on the largest userbase first and maybe add a patch for ps4k later, maybe even as paid DLC. Comparable to 3D blu-ray, nothing changed to regular blu-ray, but you have to pay more for the 3D version.
- Devs build for ps4k to wow people with the best graphics, then sorta let the frame rate slide on ps4 trying to get it to run with several downgrades. A bit like developing on PC then start the downgrades and end up with an under performing version, except a bit worse as there are 2 specs now.
- Devs aim for ps4 with ability to increase some effects, ps4 version has frame rate dips less optimized, ps4k has frame pacing issues. Most likely, rough shadows on ps4, sharp on ps4k and maybe some other simple things that don't demand much more memory or time.

This would severly handicap PSVR adoption. Sony would split the new VR userbase right at the start.
What PSVR games need ps4k, which ones will make you motion sick on PS4. It would be stupid to introduce a separate hardware spec just after Sony has drilled it into developers that framerates should be locked. No dips allowed. Oh on 2 hardware specs, did we forget to mention that...

It's not only bad for current PS4 owners, also for future PS4 owners, developers and the console business as a whole.
Gamers, Developers and Console manufacturers all have a certain budget to spend on a generation. Adding new hardware mid cycle soaks up some of that budget that could have gone towards a real next-gen upgrade, better services, more games, bigger budget games.
Games already take 3 years to develop, adding new hardware every 3 years is not helping.



You've done probably the best job of dissecting the problems of a full mid-gen spec upgrade in all the threads on this subject. Keep up the good work.



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Nautilus said:
Its a bad thing, if the PS4K truly have extra power, because it would fracture the userbase, and by comparison you would get stuck with the "shitty" version comparing betwenn the PS4 and PS4K.And this trading system is horrible.It works for phones and such because thats how the market is, but unless you dont trade your phone in 4 or 5 years, all its functions, apps and games function flawlessly for most of the time, no matter the phone you have(not that graphics are that important for mobile games anyway).That would not be the case with consoles.

Plus imagine spending like 100 to 200 dollars every 2 years for each generation.Probably by then the concept of generation would be over, but you would spend, of what would be a normal cycle(around 5 years), betwenn 600 to 800 where you should have just have spend 400.Its as a bad practice as DLC is.Unless this PS4K is a version like slim is, its just terrible news.

Thank you! Somebody here is on the same page with me on this. I wanted to really say this, but couldn't articulate it in this fashion. I don't think it's terrible news, I just don't think it's really great news either. I got the most thumbs down ever on this site for speaking against it last week. LOL



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Rafie said:
Nautilus said:
Its a bad thing, if the PS4K truly have extra power, because it would fracture the userbase, and by comparison you would get stuck with the "shitty" version comparing betwenn the PS4 and PS4K.And this trading system is horrible.It works for phones and such because thats how the market is, but unless you dont trade your phone in 4 or 5 years, all its functions, apps and games function flawlessly for most of the time, no matter the phone you have(not that graphics are that important for mobile games anyway).That would not be the case with consoles.

Plus imagine spending like 100 to 200 dollars every 2 years for each generation.Probably by then the concept of generation would be over, but you would spend, of what would be a normal cycle(around 5 years), betwenn 600 to 800 where you should have just have spend 400.Its as a bad practice as DLC is.Unless this PS4K is a version like slim is, its just terrible news.

Thank you! Somebody here is on the same page with me on this. I wanted to really say this, but couldn't articulate it in this fashion. I don't think it's terrible news, I just don't think it's really great news either. I got the most thumbs down ever on this site for speaking against it last week. LOL

Its because you are not as popular as me  XD



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

This is your April 1Th Joke ?, People purchase consoles because don't want to Upgrade, there are Tons of people from Last Gen that still hasn't upgraded yet, a Gen that Started 10 years ago, and you want people to change Hardware every 3 years ?.



KLXVER said:
AnthonyW86 said:

Sony probably wants a proper 4k blu-ray/mediaplayer and using the Playstation brand for that is the most obvious choice. Also you need atleast 60 fps for VR so the current PS4 won't be able to run most of the PS4 library properly.They also need a new gpu for HDR support.

Remember that people who upgrade to the new version will sell their old PS4, allowing other people to buy a used PS4 at an affordable price. It would create the same effect as a price cut without Sony having to cut into their profit margin.This means that the total PS4 userbase actually grows even faster than it does now, allowing Sony to make more money on software sales and PS Plus subscriptions.

Well the sales of the regular PS4 would halt. Sony gets nothing from used sales. Who would buy the regular one? Releasing a brand new system just for VR, which isnt even a sure hit yet, sounds risky to me.  

I don't think they would, and that's the key difference with how console generations work now. Today if a new console is released sales halt for the old system, even as early as the announcement of the new system. Heck in some cases sales of a system have been dropping steadily even before a new system is announced. And the reason for that is software support. Currently once a new system is announced support pretty much stops for the system, and consumers know this.

If a PS4K would release say by the end of the year, we would still get years of software support for the PS4 would still continue. I don't expect any PS4K exclusives for the next 2-3 years. So people would still be interested in PS4, and the would also have the option of the PS4K.



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Hardcore user base buy's PS4 first few year's casual fucks turn up buy the new system. So the original PS4 just the beta.



ironmanDX said:
danielrdp said:
No matter how you look at the PS4K, it's a bad thing. If all that it does is play 4K Blu-ray, then I suppose it's not a big deal. However if there is any difference in power, then that sucks a lot.

What if all the games are the same but just are scaled up/down? More like the pc market? 

How much time do you think developers will spend on optimizing the PS4 framerate and graphic if the PS4K becomes the norm in the future. PS4k is going to give a better more enjoyable experience to owner that only have a 1080P TV. When there only one spec, such as PS3 and Xbox 360, developers would keep coming up with solution to push more out of these systems. Now with the PS4 they can simply develop the game for PS4k and downgrade the game until it "works" on a PS4. If your not happy upgrade to a PS4k.



Tommy Jean, CPA, CGA

MortienGerrux said:

PS4K won't be 400$ that's for sure.


Even if all it does is play 4K Blu-ray's.

People said the same thing about PS3 and blu rays. It took about a year after PS3 was launched for a cheaper blu ray player to come out (incidentially, manufactured by Sony themselves).

That said, I think people are misinterpreting the extra horsepower of the PS4 4k. The extra compute power is there to drive games at 4K resolution, not to improve the speeds of games at non-4K. I doubt Sony would approve a developer using the 4K development kit who builds a game at 1080P resolution with the extra horsepower and the 4K game is unplayable.

It takes a massive amount of horsepower to drive 4K resolutions. Additionally, competitive VR headsets like the Vive and Oculus support greater resolutions than the current generation PS4 can support - so VR is likely a big push behind this move by Sony as well.

If you don't need 4K, the PS4 4K will be totally irrelevant to you. And even if you by some chance have a 4K TV, at the size required to make a difference with 1080P (it is more than 100 inches) and sit a few feet away from the TV. Below is a reference image for how close you'd need to sit for full hd versus 4k for Sony's own 150 inch 4K projector. 

 

In short, 4K is a bit of a scam these days, meant to appeal to early adopters who need to have the latest and greatest thing at money is no object prices and the actual practical benefits be damned. 

If you are interested in VR, there may be a case to upgrade to the PS4 4K, but that technology will again take years to prove itself as a worthwhile investment, and at least to start, will only appeal to the above demographics. 

No matter what, you will be able to play "full HD" games, and enjoy the VR experiences with the current PS4.



ps4k is as bad for ps4 users as nx is for wii u users.

the ps4 will be garbage then. Expect tons on 4k exclusives and cross titles will run even worse on ps4 as now. Multiplayer, 4k owner will own you.



AnthonyW86 said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Firstly, the constant trading in and upgrading that you're proposing makes it sound like the mobile phone business which IMO is a total shitfest. Going down that route and it won't be long until the pricing is the same. PS5 at $2000 dollars unless you get a monthly subscription or some stupid shit like that? No thanks.

Secondly, that's a very dodgy conclusion you have there that I don't agree with in the slightest. While I would agree with the thread title that it's not necessarily a bad thing, trying to argue that it's a good thing instead? Nah, not fooling for that.

Although I agree that a business model like that of smartphones would be terrible, having to wait six years for a new model smartphone would probably be even worse. That would be like going from the first Galaxy S to an Galaxy S7 in one go. Why not atleast something like a Galaxy S3/S4 iafter three years, especially if that first Galaxy S would receive new software and updates for a total of six years?

Also with or without a PS4k, a PS4 would be worth roughly the same after six years. So why not offer the option?

Smartphones are not consoles, whereas the PS4 is solely owned, developed for, manufactured, and developed by Sony (and the companies they contract), smartphones have millions of people developing for them, hundreds of companies manfacturing and developing for them, and many big companies like Google, Apple, and Microsoft working on their oses and such.

Furthermore, consoles are luxury products they are not necessetties like smartphones are. So upgrades are unlikely and if that is the case then Sony will end up wasting money on R&D, manufacturer, and development of the PS4K.

This leaves Sony with three shitty options:

1. Stop dev and distribution of PS4 to force people to upgrade, thus alienating their existing base and ruining a lot of their customer confidence and end up flopping ala dreamcast

2. Incetivize PS4K by giving it exclusives, thus fracturing their entire base, ruining customer confidence to a lesser degree and selling less on both platforms while still dealing with the expenses for launching and manufacturing the PS4K

3. Do both and give the PS4K no incentives, base remains intact, customer confidence is shaken not stired and they sell less on both platforms, but then have to deal with the expenses for launching and manufacturing the PS4K

^

These are all the results of making the PS4K a significantly upgraded PS4 rather than a slim PS4 with just 4K blu-ray capability.

This is why it makes zero sense to compare the smartphone market to the console market:

phones aren't made for apps, apps are made for phones

consoles are made for games



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