Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Why do Zelda Console games take 5 years to develop.... ?

Arlo said:
bigtakilla said:
Arlo said:

I don't think that's an accurate comparison.  Other M was a failure because of its terrible ideas, which I don't think has anything to do with how quickly it was developed.

And I'm not saying they need to rush.  I'm saying they need to use their time wisely.  Say I built a model plane, then wanted to change it.  Instead of putting on a new coat of paint and swapping out some of the parts, I threw it away and built one entirely from scratch, yet in the end it was still the exact same model, only with a new coat of paint and some swapped-out parts.  I could have spent a fraction of the time and basically gotten the same product, or at least a product that I was still happy with.

It's not a sin to use a game's assets more than once.  I don't want a new art style and everything every single time if it means it takes this long to develop.  Majora's Mask came out two years after OOT, and it's amazing.  If this new Zelda came out, then was followed by another using the same engine and style a few years down the line, I would be ecstatic.

They didn't throw all of Zelda U away though... All I got from his statements is that there were new gameplay mechanics he wanted to implement into LoZ Wii U. His exact statement:

"Since I declared at the Game Awards in December that the game would launch in 2015, the directors and the many members of the development team have been working hard developing the game," Aonuma said. "In these last three months, as the team has experienced first-hand the freedom of exploration that hasn't existed in any Zelda game to date, we have discovered several new possibilities for this game."

"As we have worked to turn these possibilities into reality, new ideas have continued to spring forth, and it now feels like we have the potential to create something that exceeds my own expectations," he added. "As I have watched our development progress, I have come to think that rather than work with meeting a specific schedule as our main objective, and releasing a game that reflects only what we can create within that scheduled time, I feel strongly that our focus should be to bring all these ideas to life in a way that will make Zelda on Wii U the best game it can possibly be."

I'm not so much saying that they threw away Zelda U; it's more that going into it, they threw away Skyward Sword.  Going into Skyward Sword, they threw away Twilight Princess.  Going into Twilight Princes...  Well, you get the idea.  They keep recreating the entire world and art style, when they could easily get away with using each one at least twice and producing games (that are just as good, I might add) at a much faster rate.

Imagine if the Gamecube got two exclusive Zeldas--Wind Waker, and a sequel that continued the ocean thing but expanded on the idea, and gave us an even more awesome world to explore.  Then imagine that after Twilight Princess we got another one just like it, but in a new land with a new story and characters, that came out about halfway through the Wii's life.  Then that would have given them the time to release Zelda U closer to launch, and by now we would be hearing rumblings about the even-more-incredible sequel, that again improved upon the open world theme.

This is my dream.  But alas, 'tis only a dream...

Well, true to the degree that from every game they throw away what came before (usually at least) but that's one of the things that will keep LoZ fresh IMO. We would pretty much know the second game we'd be getting when we got the 1st game but "bigger" and "better". If that were the case I could completely see the same people here arguing why they split a game up into two segments that are similar instead of putting all the content in the first game. 



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Miyamotoo said:

Well I dont think Zelda U could be out by now in any case (unless you want half of game). Basically almost every 3D Zelda game except MM was delayed, so Zelda U is not difrent, add to that first HD Zelda, most biggest world and most open world.

Lots a developers make great games, but what developers makes great games for 30 years. And you can't compare other developers with Nintendo, especially Zelda game, every Zelda game, especially last few, are without any bugs or performance issues, maximum polished games on launch and they delivered experience that you can find in any other game.

Thats very subjective. Zelda games were always in their own tier, its no coincidence that one Zelda game usually is compared only with other Zelda games and not with another franchises, they are league are own.

If they hadn't wasted 2 years fiddling with SS's controls, they would have started Zelda U 2 years earlier and it would be out by now, even with delays.  Zelda NX would be well into production.



TheLastStarFighter said:
Miyamotoo said:

Well I dont think Zelda U could be out by now in any case (unless you want half of game). Basically almost every 3D Zelda game except MM was delayed, so Zelda U is not difrent, add to that first HD Zelda, most biggest world and most open world.

Lots a developers make great games, but what developers makes great games for 30 years. And you can't compare other developers with Nintendo, especially Zelda game, every Zelda game, especially last few, are without any bugs or performance issues, maximum polished games on launch and they delivered experience that you can find in any other game.

Thats very subjective. Zelda games were always in their own tier, its no coincidence that one Zelda game usually is compared only with other Zelda games and not with another franchises, they are league are own.

If they hadn't wasted 2 years fiddling with SS's controls, they would have started Zelda U 2 years earlier and it would be out by now, even with delays.  Zelda NX would be well into production.


Add 1 year for the delay of Twilight Princess and that's 3 years. Enough time to develop a good game.



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TheFallen said:

Well the two previous new entries in the series. I'm not talking about remake or remasters ala Windwaker. The development time is comparable to a modern day Grand Theft Auto.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to bait fans of the series ( If you've read my posts , you'll see i'm actually a HUGE Fan). I'm waiting for the day Nintendo announces the release date so I can plan my Wii U purchase, just as I purchased a Wii last gen for Zelda only.

 Is it a question of resources Nintendo allocates? Yes, I know they've developed DS and 3DS Zelda games since ( Rockstar made GTA IV plus dlc , Red Dead Redemption AND GTA V in the same time frame between the last Zelda and the next one) I'm obviously not asking for Nintendo to UBISOFT i.e. annualize the series , I would just prefer to have a new main entry ever 3 years , as opposed to 5 years. Can anybody shed some light?


From my understanding, Nintendo has much smaller dev teams than the likes of Rockstar's. Also they also do a much bigger push to get the debugging done right, unlike Ubisoft who would push something into release when it's really not ready.



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TheLastStarFighter said:
tolu619 said:

"Heavily built on previous gens" and "been using the same engine since the N64 days" are not the same thing. You don't seem to know what an engine is in software architecture. You're acting like this is an argument between you and I in which one person has to win. It isn't. I simply corrected your wrong statement and you simply refuse to hear the truth. You clearly don't have much to say in response to what I've explained, seeing as you specifically picked out one example, the example I cited about converting to Unity, and then failed to explain why my example or explanation was wrong. You can chose not to learn, but I'll bet some others who have read my posts would learn a few things. That's supposed to be one of the advantages of forums. I've learnt a lot from people here, and it shouldn't be hard to research the validity of my statements. You have search engines at your disposal. And you can also ask your friend who works/worked at Microsoft whether your statement about using the same engine is even possible.

 

@Rolstoppable, your point about the treatment of the Zelda team sounds very likely now that you explain it.

There's is nothing to learn from you, other than how to be obnoxious.  The Zelda team (and the GTA team) (and the Windows team!) have used the same basic framework for eons.  They build on it each generation.  A software "engine" is a framework used in game development that may include things like rendering engine, physics engine, sound, ai, etc.  Very little has changed in the core physics and gameplay of Zelda or GTA since the N64.  Elements have been added and improved gen on gen, but the foundation lies in those early 3D games.

The main point is, however, that people defend Zelda's long dev time by saying it is build from scratch with each title, which is silly.  The visuals are either new or improved, but the game mechanics have hardly changed at all. 

I clearly stated other ways you could confirm/debunk what I said. I didn't say I was an epitome of knowledge that you should learn from. You keep missing the point, and are showing a much more obnoxious outlook than I am. From your own definition of a software engine, you should be able to tell that every few years, advancements are made such that engines are overhauled. WW and TP were built on the same engine. For all we know, SS might have been built on the same engine. However, if that engine was overhauled, implemeting the exact same things that one has implemeted before will require a different approach. This different approach might even be easier, but the fact that it is different, means that it takes some time to get used to.

The U.I system (for creating the 2D U.I elements of your game) was changed in Unity 4.6, so that it is way easier and more convenient to use than the U.I system that shipped with Unity 4, but it still took devs a while to understand the changes and upgrades. That may account for just 1 week of learning, but you get my point. So even though the core game mechanics of games like Zelda and GTA have remained largely the same, the process of implementing them changes, EVENN WITHIN THE SAME GAME ENGINE.

As for Microsoft and OS development, think about how many things Microsoft has to consider when making a new OS. W3C may have upgraded HTML and other technologies, new security threats may have emerged, new file types, etc. It isn't just a matter of piling on updates. When developing software, adding a new piece, or editting an existing piece may cause a bug in another piece, or outright brick the entire software. That's one of the main reasons developing anything takes so long. After adding new stuff, we always have to test the whole thing again and hope we didn't break something. And that's just one software. Now imagine trying to do an entire operating system



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So add another handheld Zelda that is most likely taking up dev time on Zelda U. Part of me wants Nintendo to port to NX so MAYBE I can get 2 Zelda's on 1 console. Alas.



After SS came out on Wii, Aonuma himself said in some interview the next console Zelda definitely wouldn't take as long, and that SS's long development cycle was mainly due to their problems in developing the control scheme.

However, seems like he was wrong. :/



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