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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Why do Zelda Console games take 5 years to develop.... ?

Pavolink on 01 June 2015
Mythmaker1 said:

Because each Zelda is built, more or less, from scratch. New assets, new art-style, new controls, new engines, and so on. That takes a lot of time.

Many sequels these days are built using similar engines or recycled assets in order to save costs and time.

Not always. Almost every Zelda plays similar. About engines, Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask runs in the same engine as Super Mario 64. The Wind Waker and Twilight Princess uses a modified version of the same OoT/MM/SM64 engine. And we don't have confirmation of a new different one used for Skyward Sword or this one.



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Pavolink on 01 June 2015
LipeJJ said:
Well, the later games usually have a big amount of dungeons, which must be difficult do design since they're pretty complex. Also, the Zelda team usually makes big changes in the middle of the development, which I think is the main reason why it take so long. They also take some time to experiment which art direction to go. So that's enough reasons already, but this time specifically, it's also the first Zelda in HD AND the game seems to have a huge open world. So I think that's why.

Ocarina of Time has 12 dungeons...

Majora's Mask 6...

The Wind Waker only 7...

Twilight Princess 10 and counting the Cave of Ordeals as one...

Skyward Sword 8 and counting the Pirate's Strongholds as one...



Proud to be the first cool Nintendo fan ever

Number ONE Zelda fan in the Universe

DKCTF didn't move consoles

Prediction: No Zelda HD for Wii U, quietly moved to the succesor

Predictions for Nintendo NX and Mobile


S.Peelman on 01 June 2015
Pavolink said:
S.Peelman said:

Yeah a lot of the time is sucked up by the experimenting. I remember they said once that they took three years to perfect the 1-1 swordplay mechanics of Skyward Sword and come up with an art-style that suited it...

I agree having three years as the total development time would be much more favorable. Even Iwata thinks so, because he said he wanted 'the next Zelda' after SS to come out in three years' time, but Aonuma doesn't really seems to listen. On the other hand though, even if I want to play it like, now, the delay will probably turn out for the best and it will be awesome for sure.

As far as I know, Skyward Sword was done with the normal Wii Remote and using a similar Twilight Princess's art style. After the Wii Motion Plus, Nintendo greenlighted (idiots) the decision to re-done the game with the Wii Motion Plus and changed a lot of mechanics, even the artstyle.

Yes, I think you are right, so of those three years they basically wasted half. 



Pavolink on 01 June 2015
S.Peelman said:
Pavolink said:

As far as I know, Skyward Sword was done with the normal Wii Remote and using a similar Twilight Princess's art style. After the Wii Motion Plus, Nintendo greenlighted (idiots) the decision to re-done the game with the Wii Motion Plus and changed a lot of mechanics, even the artstyle.

Yes, I think you are right, so of those three years they basically wasted half. 


Yes, I remember reading around the web that the epic TP E32004 trailer was just something put to show a new Zelda, but Aonuma didn't have any clear idea to what to do. It was during the development that he cames with new ideas like the wolf transformation.



Proud to be the first cool Nintendo fan ever

Number ONE Zelda fan in the Universe

DKCTF didn't move consoles

Prediction: No Zelda HD for Wii U, quietly moved to the succesor

Predictions for Nintendo NX and Mobile


Pavolink on 01 June 2015
TK14 said:
Conversely, the game could be delayed because of a potential dual-release scenario for the NX (like Twilight Princess), if NX is, in fact, a console and more powerful than Wii U so it'd be capable of running the game or making it even better. It's not as far-fetched as people think, given that they've obviously invested a ton of resources into their first built-from-the-ground-up HD, open-world Zelda game and they will want to make a profit on it (something that is not necessarily guaranteed on Wii U given its low install base).

 

Dunban67 said:

Sometimes Nintendo releases games strategically Or I should say delays games strategically- IMO Zelda U was either 1) never going to be ready in 2015 but they said it would and reaffirmed during holiday 2014 to help spur excitement and sales or 2) It was ready for release (or close enough to be released) in 2015 and decided to delay the release to a future date to perhaps fill a gap, co release w the NX or some other reason

I guarantee Zelda U was NOT delayed for the reasons they indicated-

 

This and this.

The problem is that they are giving a bad perception. Rather than new content this gen we have only get remakes. For someone new to the franchise it could be good, but for Zelda fans, like me, it has been a boring gen.



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DKCTF didn't move consoles

Prediction: No Zelda HD for Wii U, quietly moved to the succesor

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Pavolink on 01 June 2015
Cream147 said:
I honestly think it's better that it isn't any quicker than 4 years. Main Zelda games should be rare treats - something to be vastly anticipated. Each one should be its own individual gem, unique from any other in the series. Should they ideally speed up the development a little bit? Perhaps, but I'd rather they delay and release another gem than rush it out.

In reality we've had 1 new Zelda game, 2 remakes and a spin-off since Skyward Sword so its not like we've been starved of Zelda in the meantime.

3 remakes, not 2. And I played those games many years ago. The spin-off is just that, an spin-off. And the new game is A Link to the Past 2. So, yes I'm starve from new real content.



Proud to be the first cool Nintendo fan ever

Number ONE Zelda fan in the Universe

DKCTF didn't move consoles

Prediction: No Zelda HD for Wii U, quietly moved to the succesor

Predictions for Nintendo NX and Mobile


Pavolink on 01 June 2015
Jon-Erich said:
ihatefatkatz said:
Ambition and Aonuma self-consumed with beating the previous zelda with the new zelda

This.

Aonuma was with the Zelda team when Shigeru Miyamoto was still running it. He had a great teacher. He was part of that older generation of Japanese developers from the 80's who were very ambitious towards their games. This ambition kept them ahead of everyone else for almost two decades. Then something happened. Attitudes changed. There are still ambitious individuals, like the ones who are having success with their Kickstarters. The companies themselves lost that ambition along the way and that's where we get modern day Sega, modern day Capcom, and modern day Konami. While Nintendo has MANY problems of their own, I'm just glad that Nintendo's management lets Aonuma make his games the way a Japanese developer or any developer should make their games: with passion, ambition, and with pride in a great product.

So ambitious to copy paste A Link to the Past and base his new game in one he admitted never finished.



Proud to be the first cool Nintendo fan ever

Number ONE Zelda fan in the Universe

DKCTF didn't move consoles

Prediction: No Zelda HD for Wii U, quietly moved to the succesor

Predictions for Nintendo NX and Mobile


JNK on 01 June 2015
Mythmaker1 said:
JNK said:


hm a skyward swors speedrun needs about 5:40 hrs and a gtaV speedrun 7:30 hrs. GTA have way more cutscenes and co so the playtime for both are pretty equal. 

Fair enough. I still assert that there's way more to actually do in GTAV (Kind of a given, with the open world and all), but in terms of actual playtime they aren't that different.


the next zelda will be real open world, i guess it will be easier to compare for you.

Also i think its alot easier to increase playtime in a open world game like gta (sidequests and co). You just have this one giant sandbox and can add dozens of things into it as soon you got it. For a game like zelda, every quest does mostly needs his own unique levels with unique textures, enemies and other mechanics. On the other hand this zelda quests will be way better in my opinion but defintiyl take alot more time to make



TK14 on 01 June 2015
bigtakilla said:
Miyamotoo said:

Nintendo official numbers till 31. march:

-5.11mil: Mario Kart 8

-4.10mil: Super Mario 3D World

-4.81mil: New Super Mario Bros U

-4.68mil: Nintendo Land

-3.65mil: Super Smash Bros for WiiU

-2.25mil: New Super Luigi U

-1.55mil: Wii Party U

-1.52mil: Zelda WW HD

Okay, a remake only sold 1.5 mil as a launch title. You can use that, but I don't think it's very indicative to what a new LoZ with 10+ million fan base will pull. And remember, it pulled that much with less than 3 million install base if I'm not mistaken. It's actually pretty impressive.

WWHD came out 11 months after launch...not really a launch title. And Wii U was probably around 4-5 million by that point if I remember.

I'm not saying Zelda U couldn't do a respectable 3-4 million or more, but I just think Nintendo may be worried about investing so much $$ into an open-world, HD Zelda game (previously, Skyward Sword was their most expensive game to make, and because of its late release after Wii was dead, it didn't sell as well as they wanted it to) and then not getting a healthy profit return on it because of Wii U's puny install base. They will no doubt think of Twilight Princess, how it sold incredibly well on the new console and still a decent amount on the low install-base of the GameCube, AND helped sell the Wii at launch because a new-Zelda launch title is a HUGE deal. So if they dual-release on NX, they increase the sales/profits of Zelda U, as well as guarantee a strong NX launch (if its even a console and not a handheld that wouldn't be able to handle Zelda U anyway), which means a lot less risk after investing so much into the development of Zelda U. 



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Jon-Erich on 02 June 2015
Pavolink said:
RolStoppable said:
Because the Zelda team is somehow treated like the crown jewel of Nintendo EAD, even though they are a bunch of slackers.


This.

OP: Incompetence and financial reasons are behind it.

Incompetence because, as much as I love Skyward Sword, it took them a lot to do a game without even a proper overwolrd. 4 years to do A Link Between Worlds, focused on remakes, etc... Aonuma doesn't know at this point what to do with the franchise anymore. He has to remade half of the franchise history to decide to go with a Zelda NES based game, and implementing other things from other games like Hyrule Warriors.

Financial reasons because, first, games are released on holidays, second to fit on celebrations like the 25th anniversary. It won't be a surprise if Zelda HD "fits" by the god's will with the 30th anniversary next year...

The better solutions is for Aonuma and Miyamoto to step down and let someone else with clear ideas to take control of the franchise. Someone like Koizumi. He was heavily involved in Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask.

Skyward Sword actually had an average development cycle, about three and a half years. A Link Between Worlds started development in 2011 and was finished by 2013. Again, another average develop cycle. In fact, let's analyze the release dates for Zelda games dating back to Twilight Princess since that release would take place 10 years before the intended release of the Wii U Zelda. And I'm only going by games that the Zelda team worked on since Aonuma's role in the remakes and spinoffs was that of an advisor/supervisor:

2006-The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess

2007-The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass

2007-Link's Crossbow Training (was worked on by EAD Group No. 3 aka the Zelda Team)

2009-The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks

2011-The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

2013-The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker HD

2013-The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds

2016-Zelda U

So on average, we had to wait about 2 years for a new Zelda game since 2006 and even before then. Only Zelda U seems to be breaking this tradition. Both the console and handheld Zelda games were worked on by the same team so you know they were never spending too much time with one game. With the exception of Link's Crossbow Training and Wind Waker HD, remakes and spinoffs were handled by other studios which allows EAD Group No. 3 to focus their attention on the main games. 

The worst game on this list was Link's Crossbow Training and that wasn't even bad for what it was supposed to be. Those other games were all pretty good. They all stand out from one another and don't feel like a repeat of the same experience and we seem to be getting them at a decent pace. So tell me again why Aonuma is doing such a bad job and why he needs to retire?



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