Forums - Sony Discussion - Professional game dev explains why Sony's Morpheus won't get much backing from developers.

spemanig said:
That was literally the first thing I thought of when Sony said that the thing would play 1080p 120fps games. Unless the games look like PSX era games, that's not happening with the PS4's tech.

Maybe i understood wrong, but what i think they said is that the oled screen had a 120hz refresh rate, not that games would run in 120fps. Different things as you know it.



Proudest Platinums - BF: Bad Company, Killzone 2 , Battlefield 3 and GTA4

Around the Network
TheSpindler said:
Scoobes said:

Really? Considering there's not a full blown commercial product out and there are an increasingly large list of developers on board with different VR projects:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_Oculus_Rift_support

With only the Occulus Rift dev kit, there are already nearing 200 games with native VR support plus others with unofficial mod support. That list is obviously not including studios involved with Sony and we don't know if any additional studios are involved with Valve and HTC's project.

The other factor that sceptics are completely ignoring is the fact that VR is also becoming a great medium for showing movies:

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jan/27/facebook-oculus-story-studio-virtual-reality-films

http://www.technologyreview.com/news/534791/a-film-studio-for-the-age-of-virtual-reality/

So I very much doubt content will be a major hurdle.

The last problem for VR I see is cost, but we don't know how much these devices will cost yet. Obviously, costs will come down as time goes on though. 


 I think I should clarify a bit to make sure my point is coming across.  When I said development is going to be apain, I meant withthe Morpheus, as the developer in his comments as said.

Now the key points of what I said, which you have in bold, are that high profile games(no, not just high profile games with a VR mode, but built around and made for VR and done well) and the hardware being cheap enough to adopt for the veryday consumer are vital to its success.  Currently it is niche, adn will be niche for the forseeable future until those two things and others have been solved.

I'm not sure why you mentioned that VR film thing, as that's niche as can possibly be.  Just to be sure, I'm taliing about mainstream adoption of the tech for it to be successful, not small projects, or hardware selling in the thousands.  Sony would need to go far beyond setting up one studio for VR.  I doubt they can go further right now though.

Funny to think, if Microsoft had their way with always online they might be in the best position to push this whole VR thing with movie content streamed on Xbox consoles day one with theatre release with VR enabled.  But that's just a theory about their plans anyway.

There are multiple VR devices now and lots of studios devoted to developing content for them. The fact is that the same game played in VR is a very different experience. It's literally adding a new dimension, almost like playing a racing game on TV vs playing in a full blown F1 simulator. The track might be the same but the overall experience is very different.

Anyway, my point is that these "niche" project (including the film projects), are only the starting point and will grow to be the next big thing. With VR, a developer/studio doesn't need a massive budget, it just needs an innovative initial idea/product that can immerse a user to the medium. Minecraft started off as a simple game that is now one of the biggest titles on Earth. Some of these niche projects will pan out to be the next big thing (and that's the point the bigger budget publishers will jump on the bandwagon). That is what will ultimately sell VR to the mainstream. 



bigtakilla said:
Scoobes said:
bigtakilla said:
Scoobes said:

Have you ever tried VR?

Never in the state it is in now. Yet does it do something that interests me enough to drop $200? Not in the least. 

Wait until you've tried it. The word of mouth on this thing once it's properly released is going to be big. This is nothing like the gimmicks of '3D' or even motion controls. VR adds a whole new dimension. It's like the difference between colour TV vs black and white.

You might not jump in with this first gen, but I have no doubt you'll be purchasing some form of VR in the next 3-4 years.

But I have tried VR. Just not in the state it is in now. Have you?

What state would that be? I tried the last Rift dev kit and I'll be trying out the new Galaxy Gear VR soon.



Why did people have to bring Nintendo into this thread?

We already know the hardware is underpowered so you won't get awesome level gfx. We also know most devs aren't putting too much effort into their games to optimise them because lets face it for 80% extra effort needed to improve the visuals you will get maybe 10% more sales on the Wii U.

Reading around all the console wars BS there have been some good points made about the tech. I think yes the games won't be up to PS4 gfx standards later in the gen but it doesn't matter too much as long as they fun. As I mentioned in the other thread I hope the bulkiness of the device doesn't make it a nuisance to wear for long periods.



 

 

spemanig said:
Sony said that the thing would play 1080p 120fps games. Unless the games look like PSX era games, that's not happening with the PS4's tech.

Is Peter Molyneux working at Sony now or something?



Around the Network
Tachikoma said:
bigtakilla said:

Was this one supposed to be that much better? still looks PS2.5. noticable aliasing, basic geometry, flat lighting. It all still looks like an early Wii game. What gen would you say this looks?

Funny how features like these are ignored when it comes to wiiu games, isnt it?




Games aren't neccesarily going to run at 1080p/120fps (most demos were at 60fps up sampled), nor are we going to only see traditional games being forced to be Morpheus compatible.

I think this guys is speaking on behalf of some developers (the conservative ones) naturally but definitely not all. I imagine a lot of original content is in works which is designed for purpose at 1/20th the budget of traditional retail games. I imagine lots of cheaply priced apps being released for morpheus, and if development becomes accessible to the indie scene I they could easily deliver some of the most innovative and talked about content. Tradiotional games with Morpheus compatibility will not be the norm, nor the key selling point although they will be a bonus. Is GTA6 going to be Morpheus compatible? Probably not but GT6/Driveclub 2 will. Overall peripherals are often dependent of made for purpose titles to sell their appeal (wii sports, dance central etc)

Also things can be successful and niche at the same time, It doesn't need to sell 30m copies for it to conjure a successful development environment for devs and make sony profit at the same time. people saying $200 (if sony manage that price) is too much either haven't touched VR or underestimate the expendable income of the average tech consumer. When people spent $250 on the wii, we must know by now that plenty were literally just buying a device for wii sports/wii fit and mario kart. If the gimmick is strong enough it will sell at $200.



JOKA_ said:
I can't speak to it on a technical level, but project Morpheus isn't going to take off....I'm sorry, it just isn't. The mass market isn't going to spend $200 on a device to go with their $400 console to play glorified tech demos *cough*kinect*cough* And for that reason he is right, devs aren't going to pump money into games that 7 people are going to buy.

Gun stringer and Kinect sports rivals definitely didn't feel like glorified tech demos. 



Ltd predictions by the time 9th Gen comes out

Ps4:110million

Xbox one :75 million( was 65) 

Wii u: 20 milliion

Scoobes said:
TheSpindler said:
Yeah I've been seeing the VR hype-train for a while now, and I still don't get why people think this will be successful anytime soon.

VR being successful needs to be taken up by the masses and there are too many roadblocks to that atm. Sony coming in wont really help as Sony has a checklist approach to tech like this. It exists but they wont go full steam ahead with it for it to be successful. A few games will come out from them, they'll fund a few more through third parties and some indies will jump on, and maybe some of the bigger companies will have a VR mode or something, and that'll be it.

How it looks, its graphics really don't matter, its success depends on developer support(which it seems will be a pain, along with the fact that most developers wont be supporting VR anyway) and it being cheap enough to afford and appealing enough for the consumer to pick up, which again comes down to games and how much games and which high profile or good games will have them.

There's also stuff like aesthetics(while wearing them) and awkwardness for the average consumer, but i don't think that its that much of a problem for most.

Really? Considering there's not a full blown commercial product out and there are an increasingly large list of developers on board with different VR projects:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_Oculus_Rift_support

With only the Occulus Rift dev kit, there are already nearing 200 games with native VR support plus others with unofficial mod support. That list is obviously not including studios involved with Sony and we don't know if any additional studios are involved with Valve and HTC's project.

The other factor that sceptics are completely ignoring is the fact that VR is also becoming a great medium for showing movies:

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jan/27/facebook-oculus-story-studio-virtual-reality-films

http://www.technologyreview.com/news/534791/a-film-studio-for-the-age-of-virtual-reality/

So I very much doubt content will be a major hurdle.

The last problem for VR I see is cost, but we don't know how much these devices will cost yet. Obviously, costs will come down as time goes on though. 

Most of the Oculus stuff consists of small experiences or tiny games.

In addition, looking "into" the screen and watching movies on the second Oculus devkit is not a great experience beyond the initial wow factor of "sitting" in a theater and watching a movie, as the resolution is too low.

Playing retro games on a virtual TV in a virtual room works quite well because those games are low resolution to begin with.

 

--------------------

On a separate note, the biggest reason the Wii and Kinect were so popular were the family audience. People would get together and play. That will not be a factor with Morpheus in the same way as it is a solitary experience and less fun to watch someone else play.



Scoobes said:
bigtakilla said:
Scoobes said:
bigtakilla said:
Scoobes said:

Have you ever tried VR?

Never in the state it is in now. Yet does it do something that interests me enough to drop $200? Not in the least. 

Wait until you've tried it. The word of mouth on this thing once it's properly released is going to be big. This is nothing like the gimmicks of '3D' or even motion controls. VR adds a whole new dimension. It's like the difference between colour TV vs black and white.

You might not jump in with this first gen, but I have no doubt you'll be purchasing some form of VR in the next 3-4 years.

But I have tried VR. Just not in the state it is in now. Have you?

What state would that be? I tried the last Rift dev kit and I'll be trying out the new Galaxy Gear VR soon.

Last Rift kit as well. I don't even know about Galaxy Gear...