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Forums - Sony Discussion - What do yo think will be the hardware specifications of PS5 if it arrives arround 2019-2020?

Teeqoz said:
AlfredoTurkey said:

As far as power jumps, yes, Nintendo did. They did it up until the Wii. So did everyone else. 

Yeah, because tech progression was faster back then lol.

That's true.



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AlfredoTurkey said:
BraLoD said:
I don't understand why people are wanting to talk about the PS5 yet.
PS4 is doing great and we still have so many great games to hit, let us talk about the PS5 when we need it.
Of course Sony has been developing it for a while now but there is no hurry.
After TLOU2 hits we may focus on the PS5 xP

The PS4 has been on the market for fucking... almost five YEARS. I think it's well overdo to talk about it.

I do believe it is time to talk about new PlayStation hardware, but I don't know if PS5 is where the focus should be.

Next gen should be based on technology and/or the market, not time. Looking forward I don't see technology that can deliver a justifiable next gen console, in the $400 - $500 price range by 2020. On the market side PS4 is still selling extremely well, it may not even have peaked yet. I don't think it would be wise to put out an underimpressive unit with the PS5 name just for the sake of maintaining the traditional console pace. 

I believe Sony should continue to keep the PS4 fresh a few more years. Keep updates coming to firmware, and give it one more upgrade to keep it strong against consoles, PC, streamers, cable boxes, etc., and then unleash PS5 with HBM and M.2 NVMe, which will be the most vital in creating the next baseline. Right now we are restricted by current RAM, and even more so by decades out dated mechanical HDD's. These would only be bottle necks to any new device deliverd in 2019 - 2020.



Stop hate, let others live the life they were given. Everyone has their problems, and no one should have to feel ashamed for the way they were born. Be proud of who you are, encourage others to be proud of themselves. Learn, research, absorb everything around you. Nothing is meaningless, a purpose is placed on everything no matter how you perceive it. Discover how to love, and share that love with everything that you encounter. Help make existence a beautiful thing.

Kevyn B Grams
10/03/2010 

KBG29 on PSN&XBL

KBG29 said:
AlfredoTurkey said:

The PS4 has been on the market for fucking... almost five YEARS. I think it's well overdo to talk about it.

I do believe it is time to talk about new PlayStation hardware, but I don't know if PS5 is where the focus should be.

Next gen should be based on technology and/or the market, not time. Looking forward I don't see technology that can deliver a justifiable next gen console, in the $400 - $500 price range by 2020. On the market side PS4 is still selling extremely well, it may not even have peaked yet. I don't think it would be wise to put out an underimpressive unit with the PS5 name just for the sake of maintaining the traditional console pace. 

I believe Sony should continue to keep the PS4 fresh a few more years. Keep updates coming to firmware, and give it one more upgrade to keep it strong against consoles, PC, streamers, cable boxes, etc., and then unleash PS5 with HBM and M.2 NVMe, which will be the most vital in creating the next baseline. Right now we are restricted by current RAM, and even more so by decades out dated mechanical HDD's. These would only be bottle necks to any new device deliverd in 2019 - 2020.

If you've been paying attention to my opinions lately on the subject you'd know there's nothing they could do to keep it fresh for me. The system is going to be five years old this fall and I've had it since launch. It's more than long in the tooth for me and the games are just, they're good but the headroom is gone. We're not seeing games come out that push the hardware anymore. We're not seeing any advancements in AI or graphics. The system plateaued, technically speaking, years ago. And since I grew up as a child of the 80's, I'm conditioned to see something new every five years. The last generation was way too long for me and those two consoles had significantly more power for their time than these two do. The PS4 and Xbox One came out of the gate with the smallest bump in power in either companies history. So, for me, power wise, it's long over do.

This is all my personal preference though. I suppose if I could wave a magic wand and enjoy the same thing forever, I would. I mean, it's a lot less expensive in the long run, right?



AlfredoTurkey said:
KBG29 said:

I do believe it is time to talk about new PlayStation hardware, but I don't know if PS5 is where the focus should be.

Next gen should be based on technology and/or the market, not time. Looking forward I don't see technology that can deliver a justifiable next gen console, in the $400 - $500 price range by 2020. On the market side PS4 is still selling extremely well, it may not even have peaked yet. I don't think it would be wise to put out an underimpressive unit with the PS5 name just for the sake of maintaining the traditional console pace. 

I believe Sony should continue to keep the PS4 fresh a few more years. Keep updates coming to firmware, and give it one more upgrade to keep it strong against consoles, PC, streamers, cable boxes, etc., and then unleash PS5 with HBM and M.2 NVMe, which will be the most vital in creating the next baseline. Right now we are restricted by current RAM, and even more so by decades out dated mechanical HDD's. These would only be bottle necks to any new device deliverd in 2019 - 2020.

If you've been paying attention to my opinions lately on the subject you'd know there's nothing they could do to keep it fresh for me. The system is going to be five years old this fall and I've had it since launch. It's more than long in the tooth for me and the games are just, they're good but the headroom is gone. We're not seeing games come out that push the hardware anymore. We're not seeing any advancements in AI or graphics. The system plateaued, technically speaking, years ago. And since I grew up as a child of the 80's, I'm conditioned to see something new every five years. The last generation was way too long for me and those two consoles had significantly more power for their time than these two do. The PS4 and Xbox One came out of the gate with the smallest bump in power in either companies history. So, for me, power wise, it's long over do.

This is all my personal preference though. I suppose if I could wave a magic wand and enjoy the same thing forever, I would. I mean, it's a lot less expensive in the long run, right?

I hear you loud and clear. If there was a way to get a console on the market in 2019 - 2020, that could deliver a significant step forward, and be $500 I would be jumping with joy. Unfortunately, looking at where things are, the tech won't be there. Anything that could hit in that time frame would be by far the smallest leap we have ever seen from Sony or Microsoft. With major limits on RAM and Storage, games for the new consoles would not address the issues you are pointing towards. 

Tech improvement has slowed, and the requirements for any noticeable advancement in software has inreased exponentially. The days where we could have a new $400 or less box blow us away every 5 years are gone. Now we will be lucky to see that same jaw dropping leap in a ten year period, and it will only get worse going forward.



Stop hate, let others live the life they were given. Everyone has their problems, and no one should have to feel ashamed for the way they were born. Be proud of who you are, encourage others to be proud of themselves. Learn, research, absorb everything around you. Nothing is meaningless, a purpose is placed on everything no matter how you perceive it. Discover how to love, and share that love with everything that you encounter. Help make existence a beautiful thing.

Kevyn B Grams
10/03/2010 

KBG29 on PSN&XBL

KBG29 said:
AlfredoTurkey said:

If you've been paying attention to my opinions lately on the subject you'd know there's nothing they could do to keep it fresh for me. The system is going to be five years old this fall and I've had it since launch. It's more than long in the tooth for me and the games are just, they're good but the headroom is gone. We're not seeing games come out that push the hardware anymore. We're not seeing any advancements in AI or graphics. The system plateaued, technically speaking, years ago. And since I grew up as a child of the 80's, I'm conditioned to see something new every five years. The last generation was way too long for me and those two consoles had significantly more power for their time than these two do. The PS4 and Xbox One came out of the gate with the smallest bump in power in either companies history. So, for me, power wise, it's long over do.

This is all my personal preference though. I suppose if I could wave a magic wand and enjoy the same thing forever, I would. I mean, it's a lot less expensive in the long run, right?

I hear you loud and clear. If there was a way to get a console on the market in 2019 - 2020, that could deliver a significant step forward, and be $500 I would be jumping with joy. Unfortunately, looking at where things are, the tech won't be there. Anything that could hit in that time frame would be by far the smallest leap we have ever seen from Sony or Microsoft. With major limits on RAM and Storage, games for the new consoles would not address the issues you are pointing towards. 

Tech improvement has slowed, and the requirements for any noticeable advancement in software has inreased exponentially. The days where we could have a new $400 or less box blow us away every 5 years are gone. Now we will be lucky to see that same jaw dropping leap in a ten year period, and it will only get worse going forward.

If this is true, and there is no solution, then I have a hard time not feeling negative about the industry as a whole. How can we keep it running like this if the console cycles are going to be ten years? These things aren't cell phones. They're not necessities. People won't upgrade yearly just because. So where are we going to go from here? If I'm burning out at the idea of seven year cycles, how do you think people will deal with longer ones? I mean, it just seems like a massive problem and no one wants to address it.



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AlfredoTurkey said:
KBG29 said:

I hear you loud and clear. If there was a way to get a console on the market in 2019 - 2020, that could deliver a significant step forward, and be $500 I would be jumping with joy. Unfortunately, looking at where things are, the tech won't be there. Anything that could hit in that time frame would be by far the smallest leap we have ever seen from Sony or Microsoft. With major limits on RAM and Storage, games for the new consoles would not address the issues you are pointing towards. 

Tech improvement has slowed, and the requirements for any noticeable advancement in software has inreased exponentially. The days where we could have a new $400 or less box blow us away every 5 years are gone. Now we will be lucky to see that same jaw dropping leap in a ten year period, and it will only get worse going forward.

If this is true, and there is no solution, then I have a hard time not feeling negative about the industry as a whole. How can we keep it running like this if the console cycles are going to be ten years? These things aren't cell phones. They're not necessities. People won't upgrade yearly just because. So where are we going to go from here? If I'm burning out at the idea of seven year cycles, how do you think people will deal with longer ones? I mean, it just seems like a massive problem and no one wants to address it.

Well, the question is whether or not we really need to advance much further gaming-wise. I think we're reaching the point of diminishing returns.



VGPolyglot said:
AlfredoTurkey said:

If this is true, and there is no solution, then I have a hard time not feeling negative about the industry as a whole. How can we keep it running like this if the console cycles are going to be ten years? These things aren't cell phones. They're not necessities. People won't upgrade yearly just because. So where are we going to go from here? If I'm burning out at the idea of seven year cycles, how do you think people will deal with longer ones? I mean, it just seems like a massive problem and no one wants to address it.

Well, the question is whether or not we really need to advance much further gaming-wise. I think we're reaching the point of diminishing returns.

So then what? At what point do we all just collectively look in the mirror and go... ok... end game? We can't do ten year cycles and have this thing continue on in a healthy way. If we can't provide significant upgrades on a timely bases, what are we going to do to get people to upgrade? Better OS? The ability to more seamlessly post pictures of videos? I don't get it. What are we going to sell? 



withdreday said:

My prediction? The PS5 GPU will be beefy enough to run 4k at 30-60fps and thus won't launch until mid to late 2019 at it's earliest.

They almost have to with the PS4 Pro being so under powered compared to the Xbox One X. The One X is even out selling the Pro now, so most current owners don't even see the upgrade as being worth it. I tend to believe most of the rumors that the PS4 Pro will become the baseline PS4 and drop $299 the PS5 will be the "premium" console.

As far as Ram, Maybe 16 Gigs of DDR5? Remember this thing has to be able to be priced at Sony's ideal price point of $399. I can't imagine that they want another PS3...

The 1X isn't selling better because of how much more powerful it is. Its selling better because more owners of the XB1s can justify the upgrade considering how bad the base XB1 is and because the PS4s is still considered by many as good enough whereas the Pro is just looked at as a bonus. The PS4 pro will never become the baseline console (especially when comparing it to the PS5). 

And your comment on Ram, i think its worth pointing out that the PS4 back in 2013 was one of the first mass produced hardwares to even get 4Gb Ram modules allowing them to hit 8GBusing 16 of such modules. And yet they still hit that $399 price point. As of january this year, 16Gb GDDR6 (2GB) modules are in production. By next year you probably wouldnt see any GDDR5 ram being made anymore as fabricators shift their focus to the newer and more efficient Ram... oh and as demand for said ram increases too. By the time the PS5 releases,it would cost less for them to put in 16GB of GDDR6 ram than it did putting 8GB of GDDR5 ram in the PS4 back in 2013.

Pemalite said: 

 

Intrinsic said:

STORAGE: I believe the PS5 (and next Xbox) will finally jump to solid state drives. And of the M.2 variety. While the consoles will support PCIEx4 based nvMe drives by default (~2000Mb/s + reads) the consoles will come with a 1TB sata 3 based m.2 drive instead (~500Mb/s reads). Right now you can get a 512GB M.2 sata ssd for under $150.

Thats not what it would cost for sony and those prices will come down in the next 2/3yrs. Drives will be user upgradeable of course.

1. They will go with whatever is cheapest. - Even the Xbox One X isn't using the biggest, fastest mechanical disks and that was a "premium" console.

SSD's/m.2 drives still command a premium and will do so even in a few years from now.
Plus the demand for NAND is increasing, so costs could actually increase, especially if NAND fabs retool to start taking advantage of higher DRAM prices.


2. It will be GDDR6, it will be what will offer the greatest benefits, higher capacities and good enough bandwidth/latency.
GDDR6 is currently ramping up production right now, so costs will be leveled out by the time 2020 hits.
 

  1. I think with regard to this they simply can't afford to do that. Whatever is cheapest (especially if thats a mechanical drive) will not be ideal for next gen. Especially if the amount of system ram increases. Just imagine right now it takes over a minute to load up some games... how long do you think it will take when those games go up from using 5GB to say 16GB of ram? 6 minute loading screens? Also, we are talking about the next 6-8 years after release too. I doubt they would wanna build in such a massive bottleneck in 2020 and hope its ok till 2026/2028..... I also don't think that a sata m.2 drive will command the kinda premium you think it will by 2020. I'm not saying sony/MS will throw in an m.2 nvme drive, no.. they will just use the interface but ship the boxes with the cheapest sata based m.2 drive the market can muster. Still significantly better performance than a mechanical drive and ensures future proofing.

  2. I completely agree. But I think ur underselling the bandwidth part. If they go with 16GB of GDDR6 they will hit bandwidths of over 550GB/s with a 256bit bus. And if they go with 24GB then that will go up to around 800GB/s+ on a 384bit bus. Thats nothing to scoff at for consoles that will for the most part be targeting 30fps 4k gaming.
KBG29 said:

I do believe it is time to talk about new PlayStation hardware, but I don't know if PS5 is where the focus should be.

Next gen should be based on technology and/or the market, not time. Looking forward I don't see technology that can deliver a justifiable next gen console, in the $400 - $500 price range by 2020. On the market side PS4 is still selling extremely well, it may not even have peaked yet. I don't think it would be wise to put out an underimpressive unit with the PS5 name just for the sake of maintaining the traditional console pace. 

I believe Sony should continue to keep the PS4 fresh a few more years. Keep updates coming to firmware, and give it one more upgrade to keep it strong against consoles, PC, streamers, cable boxes, etc., and then unleash PS5 with HBM and M.2 NVMe, which will be the most vital in creating the next baseline. Right now we are restricted by current RAM, and even more so by decades out dated mechanical HDD's. These would only be bottle necks to any new device deliverd in 2019 - 2020.

GDDR6 is good enough. The benefits of HBM2 compared to GDDR6 doesn't offset the much higher costs of HBM2. best HBM2 is around 901GB/s of bandwidth while the best GDDR6 is around 864GB/s. And we will not see those consoles come with an M.2 nvme SSD. But my money is on the interface being there. So we will use an m.2 slot that supports nvme drives but will come shipped with a sata based drive. Probably 1TB of it. But the option will always be there for the users to throw in an nvme drive. 



AlfredoTurkey said:
VGPolyglot said:

Well, the question is whether or not we really need to advance much further gaming-wise. I think we're reaching the point of diminishing returns.

So then what? At what point do we all just collectively look in the mirror and go... ok... end game? We can't do ten year cycles and have this thing continue on in a healthy way. If we can't provide significant upgrades on a timely bases, what are we going to do to get people to upgrade? Better OS? The ability to more seamlessly post pictures of videos? I don't get it. What are we going to sell? 

Bigger worlds.
Better simulation.
Better fidelity.

But the answer to your question is iterative console releases. A-la. Playstation 4 Pro and Xbox One X.

There is room to possibly add a 3rd iterative release to the stack at some point.

Intrinsic said:

  1. I think with regard to this they simply can't afford to do that. Whatever is cheapest (especially if thats a mechanical drive) will not be ideal for next gen. Especially if the amount of system ram increases. Just imagine right now it takes over a minute to load up some games... how long do you think it will take when those games go up from using 5GB to say 16GB of ram? 6 minute loading screens? Also, we are talking about the next 6-8 years after release too. I doubt they would wanna build in such a massive bottleneck in 2020 and hope its ok till 2026/2028..... I also don't think that a sata m.2 drive will command the kinda premium you think it will by 2020. I'm not saying sony/MS will throw in an m.2 nvme drive, no.. they will just use the interface but ship the boxes with the cheapest sata based m.2 drive the market can muster. Still significantly better performance than a mechanical drive and ensures future proofing.

Well. The Xbox One and Playstation 4 don't have the fastest mechanical disks anyway.

The Xbox One X is still using an antiquated 5400rpm HDD... Namely the Seagate ST1000LM035. - And that is a good 80% slower in sustained transfer rates  than some decent 7200rpm drives... Ironically the Xbox One X's drive was also a fairly big upgrade over the Xbox One S's internal drive... Which just goes to show the shit Hard Drives Microsoft and Sony chose this generation straight out of the gate.

And why did they choose those slow 500GB HDD's at the start of this console generation? Price.

I think a decent 7200rpm drive with higher transfer rates, lower access times will be the drive of choice for next gen, maybe a hybrid drive with it's own built in NAND.
It is what provides the best capacity/price for your dollar... And consoles being cost-sensitive devices *must* take that into account.

Intrinsic said:

  1. I completely agree. But I think ur underselling the bandwidth part. If they go with 16GB of GDDR6 they will hit bandwidths of over 550GB/s with a 256bit bus. And if they go with 24GB then that will go up to around 800GB/s+ on a 384bit bus. Thats nothing to scoff at for consoles that will for the most part be targeting 30fps 4k gaming.

 

We should see at-least 512GB/s of bandwidth with a 16GB arrangement on a 256-bit bus affordably by the time next gen starts with GDDR6 at a minimum.

If Microsoft/Sony/AMD drive home the memory controller they will of course be able to push those rates up higher.
GDDR6 though without a doubt in my mind will be the DRAM choice for next gen.

And you are right, it's nothing to scoff at.

Intrinsic said:

 But my money is on the interface being there. So we will use an m.2 slot that supports nvme drives but will come shipped with a sata based drive. Probably 1TB of it. But the option will always be there for the users to throw in an nvme drive. 

Sony has been more forgiving in this area, where-as Microsoft hasn't in allowing user upgradeable drives.
So I would say it's a given for the Playstation 5... And a fat chance from the Xbox 4, we do have a few generations worth of precedents to go by now.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

AlfredoTurkey said:

If this is true, and there is no solution, then I have a hard time not feeling negative about the industry as a whole. How can we keep it running like this if the console cycles are going to be ten years? These things aren't cell phones. They're not necessities. People won't upgrade yearly just because. So where are we going to go from here? If I'm burning out at the idea of seven year cycles, how do you think people will deal with longer ones? I mean, it just seems like a massive problem and no one wants to address it.

AlfredoTurkey said:

So then what? At what point do we all just collectively look in the mirror and go... ok... end game? We can't do ten year cycles and have this thing continue on in a healthy way. If we can't provide significant upgrades on a timely bases, what are we going to do to get people to upgrade? Better OS? The ability to more seamlessly post pictures of videos? I don't get it. What are we going to sell? 

Consoles don't need to be upgraded every year. With the way the current price structure is set up, sales of actual hardware does very little as far as profits go. The profit on consoles is in the software, services, and subscriptions. This could change a little in the future if more revisions and teirs are introduced, but it is not the case currently.

Not everyone jumps on day one, or even year one. There are still millions of people that have yet to move on from PS3 and 360. As much as a 7 year cycle sounds crazy to you, in those peoples eyes just got, or are just getting PS4 and now PS5 is coming out.

Strides are already being made to try and make people happy at both the hardcore end of the market, and the casual end. PS4 Pro and XOX are built for those that want more performance, while PS4 Slim, and XBOS are targeted towards the people that are still looking to join the current gen console space. I believe this will continue going forward, with a wider range of products being available from as little as $100 and up to $1,000. This will allow people to get the expereince they want, at the price they want. It will also allow consoles to make a bigger margin on the higher end devices.

Beyond the hardare, new services and necessity functions are continuing to be added, to further justify the ownership of consoles. The vision of the console has always been that it would be the hub of your digital life. Ken Kuturagi talked about this from the very beginning of the PlayStation brand, and Microsoft went at it hard with XBO. It has not taken off yet, and the mega phone has been silenced for the moment, but both companies are still continuing to trickle out things to achieve this vision. The end goal is for consoles to be a necessity.

Then you have the bread and butter, the games themself. There is an incredible depth of games, you have indies, AA, AAA, and VR. In there, you nearly have something for everyone, and the content just doesn't stop. I am still trying to catch up on games, while anticipating games from this year, and looking forward to games coming in 2019 or 2020. At the same time, I am dreaming of games that could come to PS4 and PSVR. I honestly don't know what there is to be burned out about, when there are so many advantures to have, and so many more yet to come. 

To wrap it up, it is not about selling people new consoles for the sake of selling people new consoles. It is about building a userbase and supplying them with a variety of software and services. There is no reason to require people to move to a completely new platform if their is no significant improvement, that the previous platform simply can not handle. PS4 can remain as long as the market sees it as a valuable device, and it will continue to be a more and more profitable platform with each new user it adds.

 

So here's my questions  to you.

What are you looking for that is going to make you excited about a new console?

What games, services, peripherals, features would re-ignite your excitement around the industry?

What is your ultimate vision when it comes to games, or just digital interaction in general?



Stop hate, let others live the life they were given. Everyone has their problems, and no one should have to feel ashamed for the way they were born. Be proud of who you are, encourage others to be proud of themselves. Learn, research, absorb everything around you. Nothing is meaningless, a purpose is placed on everything no matter how you perceive it. Discover how to love, and share that love with everything that you encounter. Help make existence a beautiful thing.

Kevyn B Grams
10/03/2010 

KBG29 on PSN&XBL