Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo's reluctance to build new IP's is killing their brand

Purple said:

Reason the Wii U has been such a flop #2135

We're approaching two years on the market and Nintendo have only bothered to create two new IP's for the system. There's Nintendoland, a mishmash of existing franchises that has done relatively well and the Wonderful 101, loved by a small community (including myself) but rejected by the wider market. There are several reasons the lack of new IP's is killing Nintendo as a brand.

1) The success of the Wii was built on its unique new software. 13/20 of the top selling games on Wii were new IP's. 15 if you include the Mario Galaxy games. One of the reasons the Wii sales declined so dramatically later in its life was the lack of investment in new games by Nintendo.

2) Nintendo's traditional IP's are in decline. The popularity of Mario, Pokemon, DK et al. is falling and Nintendo aren't doing anything to change the formula of these games to increase interest again. Mario Kart Wii was a huge success because it offered an entirely new way to play a racing game. New Super Mario Bros. Wii reinvented the Mario formula to a modern take on 2D gaming. The Galaxy games added a whole new dimension and scale to 3D platformer mechanics. Mario Kart 8, NSMBU, Tropical Freeze, 3D World, Wii Fit U etc. are just iterative upgrades to existing games on previous systems. They're not bringing in new players and existing fans are seeing little reason to upgrade.

3) Nintendo is turning itself into a niche developer. The lack of new IP's is giving the general public the impression Nintendo is just a Mario production line and if you aren't interested in those games there's no reason to own a Nintendo system. Whether such an impression is fair or otherwise, the lack of investment in new IP's is having that effect.

4) Focusing exclusively on the narrow range of game genres covered by existing IP's will alienate a huge portion of the market and make the conditions for third parties unsustainable. We've already seen this happen, where unless it's a 2D platformer or kart racer, third party games will flop on the Wii U. Nintendo need new IP's to attract different audiences to their systems and allow third parties to find success on the platform with their games.

Ultimately, I can't understand why after the huge success of creating new IP on the DS and Wii, Nintendo would just completely abandon that policy and replace it with just pushing out the same old games with small improvements. Bring on Splatoon.

1) As said earlier, only 7 new IPs in the top 20 on Wii and most of them were just for using Wii hardware

2) Nintendo IPs are not in decline. You shouldn't consider too much numbers from Wii and DS games, these are not really relevant. Super Mario, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Pokémon, Animal Crossing, Zelda... it's as strong as it was before.

3) and 4) Splatoon (TPS), Xenoblade (RPG), Pikmin (RTS), Fire Emblem (T-RPG), Animal Crossing (Life Sim), Smash Bros (Fighting), Advance Wars (TBS), Zelda (Adventure), Star Fox (Rail Shooter), Metroid Prime (FPS), Kid Icarus (TPS/Rail-shooter), etc... Nintendo is not just Mario. They may have too many platformers, but it's hard to stop a serie when you have Super Mario, Donkey Kong, Yoshi and Kirby. Captain Toad is something completely different.

I think most Nintendo fans are good with Nintendo IPs management, and that's the most important thing. Attracting "casual" players is not that important, and a 15/20 million players fanbase is not what I would call "niche".



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I have always been a hard critic on Nintendo not doing more new stuff and I mean new IPs. It is just like Nintendo's reluctance to fully embrace the internet. They are very stubborn. They should and need to make new IPs. I think a lot of people move on after so many new Mario titles and such. Not all of course, there will always be diehard fans but they are not helping expand the market with new games that will entice and interest those who don't like existing Nintendo franchises and it would also help against there terrible third party support.

Nintendo does need to push forward with new IPs to stay competitive. Your not expanding your consumer if you don't. You only attract existing fans. Games like Splatoon are the right direction for Nintendo.



I think they lack ambition when it comes to launching a new IP. Splatoon looks really fun and will probably turn out great but is it just a multiplayer thing or will there be a full story mode to it?



Nintendo's problem isn't a lack of new IPs, but an unwillingness to change. Nintendo's original MO with games came with the SNES, when games were aimed at children. These days most gamers are in their 20s or 30s, and fact is Mario doesn't interest them.

Really, Nintendo should have known this. Majora's Mask had a cool reception back in 2001 and was largely forgotten right after launch, but between 2005 and 2007 people started citing it as their favorite Zelda game. It's not because the new Zelda games were bad--were that true everyone would refer to Ocarina--but because these fans grew up and their tastes changed.

The story of Nintendo is a billion games which look fantastic for what they are, but don't really interest me. They could make the best Mario game of all time, but I'm really not interested.

This is a real shame. Nintendo can make some really mature stuff without going above an E rating, and with Bioware throwing in gay sex scenes just 'cuz, that's a really rare gift. It's a shame that the corporate marketing ploy will never let them use it



Purple said:
DevilRising said:
I'm sorry. But I keep on hearing this, even though they made new IPS out the ass last gen, with the Wii _____ games especially being a HUGE reason for Wii's success. They've got the Xenoblade franchise now, and they're coming out with Splatoon next year. Not to mention W101, publishing Lego City, publishing Bayonetta 2 and Devil's Third (or for that matter the improved version of Ninja Gaiden III at launch.).

Yes, they lean on Zelda, Mario, SB, MK, Kirby, Metroid, AC, Pokemon, etc., but MS and Sony lean on a lot of the same shit every gen too. So did Sega. Off the top of my head, Wii last gen alone had Wii Sports, Wii Sports Resort, Wii Fit, Wii Fit Plus, Wii Play, Wii Play Motion, Wii Music, Wii Party, Big Brain Academy (or whatever it's called), Endless Ocean 1 + 2, Disaster: Day of Crisis (Which they were dumb and didn't bring to NA, the market it was pretty much made for), Fling Smash, and Xenoblade. They also funded/published Pandora's Tower and The Last Story in Japan, as well as (I believe) the previous Fatal Frame (which again they were dumb and didn't bring to NA).

I think we'll continue to see new IPs from Nintendo. But OF COURSE they're going to also continue making new entries in their long running franchises. Why? Because people want them, and they're usually (not always, but usually) good or even great.

Hahaha great work. You have not read a word I've written.

What you've written is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Last gen they made a tonne of completely new games and it led to a tonne of sales. This gen they've only manged two on Wii U. You're pulling mental gymnastics trying to make out that Lego and Bayonetta are somehow new IP.

I'll repeat this again in caps because no one seems to be reading the actual thread. NINTENDO'S FRANCHISES ARE IN DECLINE. THE BUSINESS WILL DIE UNLESS THEY BRING IN NEW CONSUMERS. TO DO THIS THEY MUST CREATE A WEALTH OF NEW IP.

 

 


Thanks for being a condecending dick on the internet. It's a totally fresh and original approach...............

 

No really.



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amak11 said:
GTAexpert said:

Sony has published more IP's than Nintendo, that is what matters here. But yeah, they both have great IP's, but I would like Nintendo to make more new IP's which interest me, as their current lineup which might be great doesn't appeal to me.


That's not true at all, if you look at series.. .

Nintendo side: Mario, Donkey Kong, Ice Climbers, Animal Crossing, Pikmin, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Earthbound/Mother, Kid icarus, Kirby, The Legend of Zelda, Pilot Wings, Punch-Out, Puzzle League, Metroid, Star Fox, Nintendo "Wars", F-Zero, Fire Emblem, Golden Sun, Yoshi, Pokemon, Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, Brain Age, Custom Robo, Mario Party, Mario Vs Donkey Kong, Sin and Punishment, Wario, Fatal Frame, Touch! Generations, Game and Watch, Nintendogs, etc...  I should actually post this link here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Nintendo_games_by_franchise

The main series for Sony that people will constantly bring up are: Rachet and Clank, Jak and Daxter, Uncharted, Twisted Metal, (arguably)Crash Bandicoot, Killzone, Ico and SotC, Sly Cooper, 

 

For what itès worth, Sonyès exclusive library has zero variety where as Nintendo has plenty of established exclusives in almost every genre of game. 

So you listed almost every IP ever made by intendo, but forgot the most important ones for Sony? You forgot Sony's 2 bestselling franchises: Gran Turismo and God Of War. You also listed a ton of game made by Nintendo which few even care about. Its insane how people an have such notions.

Among all first-party games Sony easily has the most variety in terms of genre. They publish FPS, TPS, Hack n Slash, Simulation Racing, Arcade Racing, 2D Platformer, 3D Platformer, 3D Fighter and Survival Horror, both in kiddy and photorealistic styles. Nintendo only makes the platformers, arcade racing, RPG and soon TPS, all with a touch of kiddiness to them.



GTAexpert said:

So you listed almost every IP ever made by intendo, but forgot the most important ones for Sony? You forgot Sony's 2 bestselling franchises: Gran Turismo and God Of War. You also listed a ton of game made by Nintendo which few even care about. Its insane how people an have such notions.

Among all first-party games Sony easily has the most variety in terms of genre. They publish FPS, TPS, Hack n Slash, Simulation Racing, Arcade Racing, 2D Platformer, 3D Platformer, 3D Fighter and Survival Horror, both in kiddy and photorealistic styles. Nintendo only makes the platformers, arcade racing, RPG and soon TPS, all with a touch of kiddiness to them.


Umm you need to do some research before you make claims. I can easily add more, but i think I made my point. Sony's offering pales in comparison

2D Platformer     3D Platformer  
         
New Super Mario Bros 89   Super Mario Galaxy 97
New Super Mario Bros Wii 87   Super Mario Galaxy 2 97
New Super Mario bros 2 78   Super Mario Sunshine 92
New Super Mario Bros U 84   Super Mario 64 94
Donkey Kong Returns 87      
         
First Person Shooters     RPG  
         
Metroid Prime 97   Xenoblade 92
Metroid Prime 2: Echoes 92   Mario & Luigi: BIS (DS) 90
Metroid Prime 3: Corruptions 90   Mario & Luigi: SSS (GBA) 90
Geist 66   Paper Mario (N64) 92
      Main Pokemon series  
         
Action/Adventure     Racers  
         
Zelda: Ocarina of Time 99   Mario Kart Super circuit 93
Zelda: Majora Mask 95   Mario Kart ds 90
Zelda: Wind Waker 96   F Zero GX 89
Zelda: Twilight Princess 96   Wave Race 64 92
Zelda: Skyward Sword 93      
         
Turn Based Strategy     Real Time Strategy  
         
Fire Emblem: Awakening 92   Pikmin 89
Advance Wars: Dual Strike 90   pikmin 2 90
Advance Wars (Gba) 92   Battalion War 76
Advance Wars: Days of Ruin 86   Battalion Wars 2 75
         
Sports     Puzzle  
         
Mario Tennis (N64) 91   Mario Vs Donker: MMA 82
Mario Golf (N64) 91   Pushmo 90
1080 Snowboarding 70   Crashmo 86
1080: Avalanche 73      
         
Fighters     Survival Horror  
         
SSB 79   eternal darkness 94
SSBM 92   Fatal Frame                   -
SSBB 93   Spirit Camera                   -
         
Sims     Rail shooter  
         
Animal Crossing 87   Starfox 64 88
Animal Crossing: Wild Word 86   Sin and punishment 2 87
Animal Crossing Wii 75   Kid Icarus Uprising (TPS)                  83

 



mii-gamer said:
GTAexpert said:

So you listed almost every IP ever made by intendo, but forgot the most important ones for Sony? You forgot Sony's 2 bestselling franchises: Gran Turismo and God Of War. You also listed a ton of game made by Nintendo which few even care about. Its insane how people an have such notions.

Among all first-party games Sony easily has the most variety in terms of genre. They publish FPS, TPS, Hack n Slash, Simulation Racing, Arcade Racing, 2D Platformer, 3D Platformer, 3D Fighter and Survival Horror, both in kiddy and photorealistic styles. Nintendo only makes the platformers, arcade racing, RPG and soon TPS, all with a touch of kiddiness to them.


Umm you need to do some research before you make claims. I can easily add more, but i think I made my point. Sony's offering pales in comparison

2D Platformer     3D Platformer  
         
New Super Mario Bros 89   Super Mario Galaxy 97
New Super Mario Bros Wii 87   Super Mario Galaxy 2 97
New Super Mario bros 2 78   Super Mario Sunshine 92
New Super Mario Bros U 84   Super Mario 64 94
Donkey Kong Returns 87      
         
First Person Shooters     RPG  
         
Metroid Prime 97   Xenoblade 92
Metroid Prime 2: Echoes 92   Mario & Luigi: BIS (DS) 90
Metroid Prime 3: Corruptions 90   Mario & Luigi: SSS (GBA) 90
Geist 66   Paper Mario (N64) 92
      Main Pokemon series  
         
Action/Adventure     Racers  
         
Zelda: Ocarina of Time 99   Mario Kart Super circuit 93
Zelda: Majora Mask 95   Mario Kart ds 90
Zelda: Wind Waker 96   F Zero GX 89
Zelda: Twilight Princess 96   Wave Race 64 92
Zelda: Skyward Sword 93      
         
Turn Based Strategy     Real Time Strategy  
         
Fire Emblem: Awakening 92   Pikmin 89
Advance Wars: Dual Strike 90   pikmin 2 90
Advance Wars (Gba) 92   Battalion War 76
Advance Wars: Days of Ruin 86   Battalion Wars 2 75
         
Sports     Puzzle  
         
Mario Tennis (N64) 91   Mario Vs Donker: MMA 82
Mario Golf (N64) 91   Pushmo 90
1080 Snowboarding 70   Crashmo 86
1080: Avalanche 73      
         
Fighters     Survival Horror  
         
SSB 79   eternal darkness 94
SSBM 92   Fatal Frame                   -
SSBB 93   Spirit Camera                   -
         
Sims     Rail shooter  
         
Animal Crossing 87   Starfox 64 88
Animal Crossing: Wild Word 86   Sin and punishment 2 87
Animal Crossing Wii 75   Kid Icarus Uprising (TPS)                  83

 

Actually that is really low. Let me list the Sony ones in the 7th and 8th generation.

FPS:

Killzone 2

Killzone 3

Killzone: Mercenary

Killzone: Shadow Fall

Resistance: Fall Of Man

Resistance 2

Resistance 3

Resistance: Burning Skies

 

TPS:

Uncharted: Drake's Fortune

Uncharted 2: Among Thieves

Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception

Uncharted: Golden Abyss

Socom 4: US Navy SEALs

Socom: Fireteam Bravo

Socom: Fireteam Bravo 2

Socom: Fireteam Bravo 3

Syphon Filter: The Omega Strain

Syphon Filter: Drak Mirror

Syphon Filter: Logan's Shadow

Pursuit Force

Pursuit Force: Extreme Justice

Resistance: Retribution

 

Hack n Slash:

God Of War: Chains Of Olympus

God Of War III

God Of War: Ghost Of Sparta

God Of War: Acsension

 

Simulation Racing:

Gran Turismo

Gran Turismo 5

Gran Turismo 6

 

Arcade Racing:

MotorStorm

MotorStorm: Pacific Rift

MotorStorm: Arctic Edge

MotorStorm: Apocalypse

Wipeout HD

Wipeout 2048

LittleBigPlanet Karting

ModNation Racers

ModNation Racers: Road Trip

 

2D Platformer:

LittleBigPlanet

LittleBigPlanet (PSP)

LittleBigPlanet 2

LittleBigPlanet PS Vita

Loco Roco

Loco Roco 2

LittleBigPlanet

 

3D Platformer:

Daxter

Jak And Daxter: The Lost Frontier

Sly Cooper: Thieves In Time

Knack

 

3D Fighter:

PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale

 

Survival Horror:

The Last Of Us

 

Sports:

MLB games yearly

Hot Shots Golf: Open Tee

Hot Shots Golf: Open Tee 2

Hot Shots Golf: World Invitational

 

Adventure:

Gravity Rush

Tearaway



GTAexpert said:

Actually that is really low. Let me list the Sony ones in the 7th and 8th generation.

FPS:

Killzone 2

Killzone 3

Killzone: Mercenary

Killzone: Shadow Fall

Resistance: Fall Of Man

Resistance 2

Resistance 3

Resistance: Burning Skies

 

TPS:

Uncharted: Drake's Fortune

Uncharted 2: Among Thieves

Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception

Uncharted: Golden Abyss

Socom 4: US Navy SEALs

Socom: Fireteam Bravo

Socom: Fireteam Bravo 2

Socom: Fireteam Bravo 3

Syphon Filter: The Omega Strain

Syphon Filter: Drak Mirror

Syphon Filter: Logan's Shadow

Pursuit Force

Pursuit Force: Extreme Justice

Resistance: Retribution

 

Hack n Slash:

God Of War: Chains Of Olympus

God Of War III

God Of War: Ghost Of Sparta

God Of War: Acsension

 

Simulation Racing:

Gran Turismo

Gran Turismo 5

Gran Turismo 6

 

Arcade Racing:

MotorStorm

MotorStorm: Pacific Rift

MotorStorm: Arctic Edge

MotorStorm: Apocalypse

Wipeout HD

Wipeout 2048

LittleBigPlanet Karting

ModNation Racers

ModNation Racers: Road Trip

 

2D Platformer:

LittleBigPlanet

LittleBigPlanet (PSP)

LittleBigPlanet 2

LittleBigPlanet PS Vita

Loco Roco

Loco Roco 2

LittleBigPlanet

 

3D Platformer:

Daxter

Jak And Daxter: The Lost Frontier

Sly Cooper: Thieves In Time

Knack

 

3D Fighter:

PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale

 

Survival Horror:

The Last Of Us

 

Sports:

MLB games yearly

Hot Shots Golf: Open Tee

Hot Shots Golf: Open Tee 2

Hot Shots Golf: World Invitational

 

Adventure:

Gravity Rush

Tearaway


Maybe cuz i didn't add all the games? Cuz there is to many to list between 4 platforms? 



mii-gamer said:
GTAexpert said:

Actually that is really low. Let me list the Sony ones in the 7th and 8th generation.

FPS:

Killzone 2

Killzone 3

Killzone: Mercenary

Killzone: Shadow Fall

Resistance: Fall Of Man

Resistance 2

Resistance 3

Resistance: Burning Skies

 

TPS:

Uncharted: Drake's Fortune

Uncharted 2: Among Thieves

Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception

Uncharted: Golden Abyss

Socom 4: US Navy SEALs

Socom: Fireteam Bravo

Socom: Fireteam Bravo 2

Socom: Fireteam Bravo 3

Syphon Filter: The Omega Strain

Syphon Filter: Drak Mirror

Syphon Filter: Logan's Shadow

Pursuit Force

Pursuit Force: Extreme Justice

Resistance: Retribution

 

Hack n Slash:

God Of War: Chains Of Olympus

God Of War III

God Of War: Ghost Of Sparta

God Of War: Acsension

 

Simulation Racing:

Gran Turismo

Gran Turismo 5

Gran Turismo 6

 

Arcade Racing:

MotorStorm

MotorStorm: Pacific Rift

MotorStorm: Arctic Edge

MotorStorm: Apocalypse

Wipeout HD

Wipeout 2048

LittleBigPlanet Karting

ModNation Racers

ModNation Racers: Road Trip

 

2D Platformer:

LittleBigPlanet

LittleBigPlanet (PSP)

LittleBigPlanet 2

LittleBigPlanet PS Vita

Loco Roco

Loco Roco 2

LittleBigPlanet

 

3D Platformer:

Daxter

Jak And Daxter: The Lost Frontier

Sly Cooper: Thieves In Time

Knack

 

3D Fighter:

PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale

 

Survival Horror:

The Last Of Us

 

Sports:

MLB games yearly

Hot Shots Golf: Open Tee

Hot Shots Golf: Open Tee 2

Hot Shots Golf: World Invitational

 

Adventure:

Gravity Rush

Tearaway


Maybe cuz i didn't add all the games? Cuz there is to many to list between 4 platforms? 

That is still very low, if you don't count e-shop games.

Even my list is incomplete, so its all fair.