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Does game over still exist?

Many games of the last years have auto-save.
FF13 has auto-safe and auto heal after each battle.
It doesnt matter whether you die or not.
And there is a map to tell you where to go.
This is just an example.

Games without game over are useless.



''Hadouken!''

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Ajax said:
Does game over still exist?

Many games of the last years have auto-save.
FF13 has auto-safe and auto heal after each battle.
It doesnt matter whether you die or not.
And there is a map to tell you where to go.
This is just an example.

Games without game over are useless.


Subjective.



Psychotic said:
kupomogli said:

If I played as poorly as both of these gamers, I'd be embarrassed to put the videos on Youtube, but it's like every single person who sucks at gaming, feels the need to have a Youtube channel with tens of thousands of videos. There are some good gamers who have thousands of Youtube videos, but the majority of them are shitty gamers cashing in on the popularity of the genre. I was trying to show a game off the other day, but I couldn't find one video that the player didn't suck ass at it.


Maybe they know that skill isn't everything? Or even better - that skill means *nothing* if it doesn't improve your experience?

Skill does improve your experience.  If you aren't that good at games so you keep dying over and over again at a game regardless of its difficulty, I'm sure that you wouldn't like it. 



Psychotic said:
archbrix said:
Psychotic said:

(... because I realize that's just nostalgia value and these game suck compared to today's games...)

By that flawed rationale, enjoying a classic movie or song is just "nostalgia value" just because today's content has better/more modern effects...

Music and to lesser extent movies lack objective quality indicators. What doesn a "good song" sound like? I can't tell you, because it's subjective as butt. What does a good game look like? That I can tell you. And people can tell you with their wallets.

But yes, a lot of times even music and movies can be sustained on nostalgia value alone. It's actually pretty easy to measure: do people who were born WAY after the movie/music had been created still like it? No? Then it's nostalgia value only.

That's where your reasoning is deeply flawed.  You can tell me what a good game looks like?  Compare the graphics in Haze to the graphics in Tetris.  Does that make Haze a better game?  Certainly not according to people's wallets...

Face it:  There are reasons that some things are remembered as classics and some are remembered as dated junk.  Claiming that anything that is looked back fondly on is due only to "nostalgia value" is as silly of a blanket statement as what Review Tech is saying.



kupomogli said:

Skill does improve your experience.  If you aren't that good at games so you keep dying over and over again at a game regardless of its difficulty, I'm sure that you wouldn't like it. 


I don't think that's a significant portion of people. Everybody can handle the casual/very easy/beginner difficulty. And is beating a game on hard so different from beating it on easy? Bragging rights aside?



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kupomogli said:
Psychotic said:
kupomogli said:

If I played as poorly as both of these gamers, I'd be embarrassed to put the videos on Youtube, but it's like every single person who sucks at gaming, feels the need to have a Youtube channel with tens of thousands of videos. There are some good gamers who have thousands of Youtube videos, but the majority of them are shitty gamers cashing in on the popularity of the genre. I was trying to show a game off the other day, but I couldn't find one video that the player didn't suck ass at it.


Maybe they know that skill isn't everything? Or even better - that skill means *nothing* if it doesn't improve your experience?

Skill does improve your experience.  If you aren't that good at games so you keep dying over and over again at a game regardless of its difficulty, I'm sure that you wouldn't like it. 


Agreed. Skill, without a doubt, improves your experience. People generally like what they're good at. This is true when talking about sports, academics, games, etc.... To say that skill doesn't improve your experience is just plain ignorant. I'm not saying that you can't like something if you're bad at it, but I am saying that you would like that certain something more if you were good at it.



I bet the Wii U would sell more than 15M LTD by the end of 2015. He bet it would sell less. I lost.

Ajax said:
Does game over still exist?

Many games of the last years have auto-save.
FF13 has auto-safe and auto heal after each battle.
It doesnt matter whether you die or not.
And there is a map to tell you where to go.
This is just an example.

Games without game over are useless.

The recent Rayman games didn't have game over screens, but they still managed to be pretty challenging!



                
       ---Member of the official Squeezol Fanclub---

archbrix said:

That's where your reasoning is deeply flawed.  You can tell me what a good game looks like?  Compare the graphics in Haze to the graphics in Tetris.  Does that make Haze a better game?  Certainly not according to people's wallets...

Face it:  There are reasons that some things are remembered as classics and some are remembered as dated junk.  Claiming that anything that is looked back fondly on is due only to "nostalgia value" is as silly of a blanket statement as what Review Tech is saying.

Who was talking about graphics? I said that "a good game" is significantly easier to objectiverly define than "a good song" or "a good movie". A good game doesn't frustrate, a good game isn't infair, a good game creates an emotional high, a good game isn't glitchy enough to interfere with the experience... What does a good movie look like? What do Godfather and Ace Ventura have in common? I have no freain' clue.

I did what I could to make sure the message comes across and I apparently failed - I never said all old games are remembered purely for nostalgia, I sad A LOT (not all) of them are.



I suck at most games, both old and new, but I still enjoy them.
I like retro gaming, but I don't like every old fashioned feature.
I like free roaming, but I like to have a map too, I don't like the most hardcore feature, permadeath, because I have no time to restart long games from the beginning. OTOH I like game over and reload and I don't like autosave and autoheal, I always play at the maximum difficulty available without permadeath. I'm not scared by steep difficulty curves. I like large worlds without loading points (or with few of them).
I don't like platformers anymore, I always sucked at them, but in the past I liked them anyway.
I like true racing sims, I used to like arcade racers too, but now I find them not challenging enough.
I could say I like a game to be challenging, but not masochistic.
I always build low-power consumption PCs, so I don't look for the best possible graphics, they just have to be "good enough" for me.
Jokes apart, if a game satisfies my tastes I like it independently from whether it is new or an old classic.

Finally, I should add an observation: we old gamers tend to consider the old times "golden" maybe also because we remember the best old games, the true classics, but we forgot the crappy ones, except maybe some so crappy to become trash cult.



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ohmylanta1003 said:


Agreed. Skill, without a doubt improves your experience. People generally like what they're good at. This is true when talking about sports, academics, games, etc.... To say that skill doesn't improve your experience is just plain ignorant. I'm not saying that you can't like something if you're bad at it, but I am saying that you would like that certain something more if you were good at it.


1) A person who disagrees with you isn't automatically ignorant.

2) Skill doesn't improve your experience, the perception of skill does. If your enemies are weaker than you, but not significantly, you feel good. It doesn't matter if the game has to be set on "very easy" or "very hard" to ensure this.