Forums - Sales Discussion - When will PS4 reach 10 million sold? - ioi comments on undertracking

Didn't this site add an additional 1 million units for X360 in June when MS announced 84 million shipped? They just dumped them in the US region and now if you add up NPD's total numbers, it is overtracked by 1 million here in the US. They dumped 1 million extra X360 sales "anywhere" just to make the total lifetime amount more accurate but yet, refuses to do the same for PS4...



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ioi said:

On the subject of Sony's 10m announcement and adjustments and in an attempt to be fully transparent - until we can figure out where the "missing" 600k units have been sold then we obviously can't adjust the figures since they certainly aren't in the USA, Canada, Mexico and South America, UK, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Benelux, Scandinavia, Eastern Europe, Russia, Australia, New Zealand or Japan in which our data is very accurate and lines up well with other data providers. Our estimates for the other regions (Middle East, Africa, Asia) are rough estimates based on trends seen with PS2 / PS3.

Our data for the regions we track as listed above for PS4 adds up to around 9.0m which should be accurate to +/- 100k. We estimate a further 140k in the Middle East and Africa and 290k in the remainder of Asia taking us to the 9.4m you can see on the homepage.

If Sony's numbers are to be believed as being accurate sell-through then clearly they have sold an enormously disproportional amount in one of those regions and once we know which one we can make the necessary adjustments. We can't just add 600k units to the total - we need to know which regions to adjust so we can ensure that we are on track moving forwards. This is why adjustments don't always happen straight away or sometimes not at all - we can't just randomly add sales here and there to make things add up!

The same goes for complaints about PS3 and 360 sales - until we can get hard data for regions such as the Middle East, Africa, Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, India, China and so on then the best we can do is extrapolate based on general market trends and make best estimates for specific platform sales in those regions. If you wish to help and know of any reports or research in those regions then let me know and we can compare to our estimates and make adjustments as necessary.

So basically until another firm that actually properly tracks those regions does your job for you, we're stuck with an embarassingly incorrect figure on the front page. Go VGC.



2008ProchargedGT said:
Aerys said:
ioi said:

On the subject of Sony's 10m announcement and adjustments and in an attempt to be fully transparent - until we can figure out where the "missing" 600k units have been sold then we obviously can't adjust the figures since they certainly aren't in the USA, Canada, Mexico and South America, UK, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Benelux, Scandinavia, Eastern Europe, Russia, Australia, New Zealand or Japan in which our data is very accurate and lines up well with other data providers. Our estimates for the other regions (Middle East, Africa, Asia) are rough estimates based on trends seen with PS2 / PS3.

Our data for the regions we track as listed above for PS4 adds up to around 9.0m which should be accurate to +/- 100k. We estimate a further 140k in the Middle East and Africa and 290k in the remainder of Asia taking us to the 9.4m you can see on the homepage.

If Sony's numbers are to be believed as being accurate sell-through then clearly they have sold an enormously disproportional amount in one of those regions and once we know which one we can make the necessary adjustments. We can't just add 600k units to the total - we need to know which regions to adjust so we can ensure that we are on track moving forwards. This is why adjustments don't always happen straight away or sometimes not at all - we can't just randomly add sales here and there to make things add up!

The same goes for complaints about PS3 and 360 sales - until we can get hard data for regions such as the Middle East, Africa, Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, India, China and so on then the best we can do is extrapolate based on general market trends and make best estimates for specific platform sales in those regions. If you wish to help and know of any reports or research in those regions then let me know and we can compare to our estimates and make adjustments as necessary.


Ok but you do know X360 is overtracked by 1M in Germany(official numbers from germany) no need to search where to put these numbers, and still, you didnt fix that.
And it's pretty clear PS4 undertracking coems from Europe, you undertracked it by 50k only in Germany, so it's easy to imagine it's the same in a lot of other countries in Europe where your datas are the less accurate.

A wild IoI appears. VGchartz poster uses logic, its ineffective...

XD



Well its good to know that the tracking in most developed countries is good. I'm guessing many of the missing sales are from the Middle East.



    

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Aerys said:

Ok but you do know X360 is overtracked by 1M in Germany(official numbers from germany) no need to search where to put these numbers, and still, you didnt fix that.
And it's pretty clear PS4 undertracking coems from Europe, you undertracked it by 50k only in Germany, so it's easy to imagine it's the same in a lot of other countries in Europe where your datas are the less accurate.


Our current figure for 360 in Germany is 2.6m which I am happy with. GFK released data at the end of 2010 showing 1.9m units sold to that point (500k during 2010) - it would be hard to believe that only 200k had been sold in the 3 and a half years since then. The 2.1m figure that was "leaked" is massively out of date.

As for Germany, we are about 40k lower, we might be 20k too low in France and the UK vs GFK but we are 110k higher than NPD as of the end of July in the USA (3.87m vs 3.76m) so overall that cancels out. As I say, I am happy with our ~9m figure for The Americas and Europe and I have a hard time finding 1m sales in the remaining regions as most are so small or generally don't buy a new console in large numbers until 2-3 years down the line once prices start to fall.



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ioi said:
BraLoD said:
That's the problem with VGC refusing to update the numbers, people who see it think PS4 is still with that kind of sales.
VGC is so off the real numbers that they fear to change it? Go update it already, that's embarassing.


I guess you didn't read my post?

My first quote from ioi

Yeah, I haven't read it, but now that I came to see the quote I saw it

I don't think we should doubt Sony word, because you know, it's their bussiness and I do believe that they said it because that was a fact.

And wasn't Germany a lot undertracked here? It's already adjusted?

Anyway, if that was already stated you should add it to the "Rest of the World" that you have here and update it to the 10M+ or try to see if the EU is not still off, because there are people coming here and getting wrong numbers because of the site, and whatever is the issue that shouldn't happen and have to be adjusted.

It's a bigger problem to give people wrong information, that comes in the front page, than showing them the right one and start to fix the site numbers with the actual numbers in the time being.



ioi said:

On the subject of Sony's 10m announcement and adjustments and in an attempt to be fully transparent - until we can figure out where the "missing" 600k units have been sold then we obviously can't adjust the figures since they certainly aren't in the USA, Canada, Mexico and South America, UK, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Benelux, Scandinavia, Eastern Europe, Russia, Australia, New Zealand or Japan in which our data is very accurate and lines up well with other data providers. Our estimates for the other regions (Middle East, Africa, Asia) are rough estimates based on trends seen with PS2 / PS3.

Our data for the regions we track as listed above for PS4 adds up to around 9.0m which should be accurate to +/- 100k. We estimate a further 140k in the Middle East and Africa and 290k in the remainder of Asia taking us to the 9.4m you can see on the homepage.

If Sony's numbers are to be believed as being accurate sell-through then clearly they have sold an enormously disproportional amount in one of those regions and once we know which one we can make the necessary adjustments. We can't just add 600k units to the total - we need to know which regions to adjust so we can ensure that we are on track moving forwards. This is why adjustments don't always happen straight away or sometimes not at all - we can't just randomly add sales here and there to make things add up!

The same goes for complaints about PS3 and 360 sales - until we can get hard data for regions such as the Middle East, Africa, Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, India, China and so on then the best we can do is extrapolate based on general market trends and make best estimates for specific platform sales in those regions. If you wish to help and know of any reports or research in those regions then let me know and we can compare to our estimates and make adjustments as necessary.

This is what I dont understand.

It is not just with your console tracking but with your software tracking too. SOny announced over 30 million software sales while you guys still have it at about 26 million+. The last of us (PS3) has sold over 7million+ worldwide by the end of 2013. but you guys still have it as 4 million+ in 2014. I dont know how you do you trackings but it is definitely lacking in some major aspect especially when it is about the PS brand. Germany offically reported over $50k PS4 consoles more than you guys but you still havent changed it. 



What ioi's basically saying is that PS4 is an enigma! It doesn't play by the rules! It's not the console we deserve but the console we need!



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

where are you guys getting this 10M sold to consumers?

i was always under the impression that when a manufacture announced numbers either HW or SW they were always shipped since manufactures dont track sold to consumers but do have very accurate shipped numbers



                                                             

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Sal.Paradise said:

So basically until another firm that actually properly tracks those regions does your job for you, we're stuck with an embarassingly incorrect figure on the front page. Go VGC.

I don't believe that are any firms tracking sales in those regions as they are so hard to track - certainly not on a weekly basis. The best we may get is a report from manufacturers as to how many units they have shipped to a region or some rough estimates from a local trade body or similar. I doubt if there is anyone in the world who could accurately tell you how many PS3s were sold in India last week.