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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Forza dev: You can't talk power unless you're informed

Ah yes, the famous "you can't comment on something unless you know it inside and out" fallacy. A favorite of those that follow politics rabidly, and also a perennial favorite in the console power debates, starting waaaaay back with the Atari VCS vs. the Odyssey.

(Allow me to translate: the One is *vastly* weaker than the PS4, but if I wave my arms enough and blow enough smoke, you'll be convinced that the same game running at 30FPS on One and 60FPS on PS4 doesn't mean the PS4 is more powerful--it just means that you don't understand how the machines work and how 30 is just as good as 60 because i said so.)



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CGI-Quality said:

Anyway, as far as people with an understanding, that's too broad of an assumption to know who's got knowledge of what. You don't actually kow what the next guy might know. Plus, just showing a bias =/= lack of knowledge, or nearly every dev in the industry's opinion would be void. 


I think that's the point isn't it?  That's why first party games have such better graphics and gameplay.  They are experts on their system, so their games look and play better than most.  3rd part developers might produce a game for both or all 3 systems, but they have people who focus on particular systems when they optimize.  I doubt that heads of the development companies really get into the details of all of the coding.  When they have different groups doing the development for each console, I doubt there really is any one person who really is an "expert" on all systems.  Who really can make that determination which is truely most powerful?  Probably very few people, and then only if they could dedicate months/years studying both systems in depth.  So, nearly every dev in the industry's opinion would IS void.



Vashyo said:
Imaginedvl said:
Vashyo said:
So power doesn't matter, huh...or does it?

So many threads stating the opposites constantly, lol

Not tired of this yet? Just give it a break now it is getting old.

It is not because they genuely believe that power is not the most important part that they have not the right to talk about their specs or even defend themselves about those internet experts who spread wrong rumors that are impacting their business.

I'm sceptical about everything being said now, MS employees and MS exclusive devs seem to hype the power while multiplat devs just state that PS4 is noticeably stronger. I find this all hilarious though, so much moaning about this one issue. :P

Well yah I will not argue with you about that (bold part). Now, it is understandable for them to defend their baby :)

I think they are just trying to have people understanding that this 50% number is not true (people in general stick on big numbers without even understanding from where they are coming). A lot of people will not really care for 10 or 20% differences, even 30%... But 50% starts to be really high and it may really hurt them in a short run...



Vashyo said:
So power doesn't matter, huh...or does it?

So many threads stating the opposites constantly, lol


It seems that Xbox (fans and employees) are saying specs don't matter = they are both just as powerful = Xbox One is more powerful = you should buy Xbox One. Also teh cloudz somewhere in there

When it really comes down to it. Both Killzone and Infamous look better graphically then anything Xbox One is showing right now. We could argue Foza/Driveclub until pigs fly. Each camp Pointing out certain pieces where their game looks better. 

It's not that Ps4 is more powerful. Every gen has a console that is more powerful, and it hasn't meant more success. But before more power = higher cost. That's not the case this time around. And that is the real important part this coming gen



Imaginedvl said:

What the hell are you talking about now? Are you going to keep bitching at Microsoft in every reply and ignore the previous topic all night long?

I have no clue what your last reply has to do with you calling me naive and pretending that the Forza Dev was actually getting to the point of the Xbox One being "more powerfull" than the PS4... That was the actual topic and NO; I do not believe that; he is just saying that the Xbox One is more powerfull than what the Internet clueless experts are saying... Only the few insecure Sony enthousiats are believing that...

Now can you please explain me the link between that (previous paragraph) and your random reply about MS downplaying the differences on daily basis?

I love when people are running out of argument and just come back shooting in another random direction...

You can't see a link between these two posts?

YOU: I'm sorry but you are plain naive if you believe that, imo.
Maybe he was talking about the Xbox One being more powerfull than what people are assuming but more powerfull than the PS4? No, I do not think so.

ME: When MS have been doing nothing but trying to downplay the differences on a daily basis  (even joining Gaf) you think it's more likely that I'm naive in believing this dev is just following an MS directive? If that's what you believe, that's what you believe.

I'll give you a clue: It's about defining what it means to be naive. You believe he isn't saying this to try and suggest everyone is wrong about the PS4 being more powerful and I believe he is. It's not difficult to understand. I doubt I'm the only one that sees the obvious.

You think it's just a completely coincidental post that bares no relation to the ongoing attempts to downplay the advantage Sony has and to discredit the technicians and developers that frequent forums like Gaf? AND YOU CALL ME NAIVE.



 

The PS5 Exists. 


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GribbleGrunger said:
Imaginedvl said:

What the hell are you talking about now? Are you going to keep bitching at Microsoft in every reply and ignore the previous topic all night long?

I have no clue what your last reply has to do with you calling me naive and pretending that the Forza Dev was actually getting to the point of the Xbox One being "more powerfull" than the PS4... That was the actual topic and NO; I do not believe that; he is just saying that the Xbox One is more powerfull than what the Internet clueless experts are saying... Only the few insecure Sony enthousiats are believing that...

Now can you please explain me the link between that (previous paragraph) and your random reply about MS downplaying the differences on daily basis?

I love when people are running out of argument and just come back shooting in another random direction...

You can't see a link between these two posts?

YOU: I'm sorry but you are plain naive if you believe that, imo.
Maybe he was talking about the Xbox One being more powerfull than what people are assuming but more powerfull than the PS4? No, I do not think so.

ME: When MS have been doing nothing but trying to downplay the differences on a daily basis  (even joining Gaf) you think it's more likely that I'm naive in believing this dev is just following an MS directive? If that's what you believe, that's what you believe.

I'll give you a clue: It's about defining what it means to be naive.

Arrogance now :) Dude, you are just plain wrong.

You are so much trying to defend your precious PS4 that you cannot even understand the fact that I'm not saying the Xbox One is as powerfull as the PS4 (or even more)... Just take a minute... Breath out... And now stop calling people naive when they are just talking about the actual topic (you know, why the guy is saying that) instead of seeing haters everywhere...

You believing that Microsoft want to convince the world that the PS4 is LESS powerfull than the Xbox One "is" not only naive but completly ridiculous. If you remove for a second your hater's hat and stop assuming that every Microsoft/Xbox One fan hates the PS4 or believe that the Xbox One is far more supperior than the PS4, you may actually see my post from another perspective.



GribbleGrunger said:


Well it is possible I suppose, but devs are saying it isn't happening. AMD say it's more powerful and have even done a deal with Sony to build chips around Sony's design, the specs say it's more powerful, Cerny,  the guy who built it says it's more powerful and third party devs have said it's more powerful. I fail to see why this debate is still going on.


I haven't seen that, do you have a source?



Stinky said:
GribbleGrunger said:


Well it is possible I suppose, but devs are saying it isn't happening. AMD say it's more powerful and have even done a deal with Sony to build chips around Sony's design, the specs say it's more powerful, Cerny,  the guy who built it says it's more powerful and third party devs have said it's more powerful. I fail to see why this debate is still going on.


I haven't seen that, do you have a source?


it happend at gamescom, they retracted it the next day and said that person had spoke out of line,  it had to do with HUMA,   ill see if i can find a link

http://www.psu.com/a020686/PS4-huMA-architecture--AMD-retracts-statement-will-not-comment-on-PS4-vs-Xbox-One?page=0

sorry its a Sony link, it was just first one i found,  it has the facts of what happend and its easy to ignore the last paragraph saying its a tongue slip lol thats for us to believe ;)



I am Torgo, I take care of the place while the master is away.

"Hes the clown that makes the dark side fun.. Torgo!"

Ha.. i won my bet, but i wasnt around to gloat because im on a better forum!  See ya guys on Viz

Imaginedvl said:

Arrogance now :) Dude, you are just plain wrong.

You are so much trying to defend your precious PS4 that you cannot even understand the fact that I'm not saying the Xbox One is as powerfull as the PS4 (or even more)... Just take a minute... Breath out... And now stop calling people naive when they are just talking about the actual topic (you know, why the guy is saying that) instead of seeing haters everywhere...

You believing that Microsoft want to convince the world that the PS4 is LESS powerfull than the Xbox One "is" not only naive but completly ridiculous. If you remove for a second your hater's hat and stop assuming that every Microsoft/Xbox One fan hates the PS4 or believe that the Xbox One is far more supperior than the PS4, you may actually see my post from another perspective.

'your precious PS4', 'Breath out', 'seeing haters everywhere', 'remove your haters hat' ... LOL. We'll leave it here. This is getting us nowhere fast

edit: Missed this post by you:

"I think they are just trying to have people understanding that this 50% number is not true (people in general stick on big numbers without even understanding from where they are coming). A lot of people will not really care for 10 or 20% differences, even 30%... But 50% starts to be really high and it may really hurt them in a short run..."

Appologies :)



 

The PS5 Exists. 


GribbleGrunger said:
Imaginedvl said:

Arrogance now :) Dude, you are just plain wrong.

You are so much trying to defend your precious PS4 that you cannot even understand the fact that I'm not saying the Xbox One is as powerfull as the PS4 (or even more)... Just take a minute... Breath out... And now stop calling people naive when they are just talking about the actual topic (you know, why the guy is saying that) instead of seeing haters everywhere...

You believing that Microsoft wants to convince the world that the PS4 is LESS powerfull than the Xbox One "is" not only naive but completly ridiculous. If you remove for a second your hater's hat and stop assuming that every Microsoft/Xbox One fan hates the PS4 or believe that the Xbox One is far more supperior than the PS4, you may actually see my post from another perspective.

'your precious PS4', 'Breath out', 'seeing haters everywhere', 'remove your haters hat' ... LOL. We'll leave it here. This is getting us nowhere fast

I think so.