Forums - General Discussion - Oh my god, the selective service system sent me a registration letter

mrstickball said:
PhoenixKing said:
mrstickball said:
nightsurge said:
mrstickball said:
PhoenixKing said:

YOU are living in a childhood fantasy crafted by movies and patriotic ramblings.

Military fighting isn't 'good vs bad'- light vs dark star wars BS.

It's going into peoples homes, forcing information from them, bombing innocent civilian areas because of enemy bases nearby or because that's how they get their food, it's killing children should you be ordered to do so, and it's sick and wrong.

These aren't 'over-dramatized isolated incidents'. They're fact. They happen all the time in wars. Civilians are the FIRST objective to be attacked so they don't join the opposing army or provide food for them.

Nazi's taking over the world? Nazi's had no chance of doing that because they were fighting a 2 front war and Russia was on our side.

Honor in dying? No such thing. Your wife would grieve for your death, no? Wouldn't she feel guilty about it?

Look at Abraham Lincoln, when he was killed, his wife went crazy and was sent to a mental institution because she thought anyone emotionally close to her would die (Her husband died after she lost 3 sons in the war).

Want to know why schools don't tell you this? Because NO ONE wants fresh and able-bodied military resources to be anything but happy about partaking in war.

Also, to put it in the most simplest terms, since I'm sure most of you don't believe me.

War's definition: Organized Murder.

That's it. That's all. It's no different than gangs killing people. You just wear an honorary uniform to do it.

Just curious, but do you think war against Hitler was justified? What about Pol Pot, or Imperial Japan?

Give it up, mrstickball.  This kid is delusional as they come.  I love how he preaches to us more mature and older individuals about living in a fantasy created by movies when he himself is the one seemingly living in a fantasy and not fully understanding many of these complex topics.

I know I have kept out of commenting on the actual war topics, but I must say his comment about "killing civilians is the first thing to do so they won't join up" is the absolute worst logic ever and completely false.  Sure some idiotic crazy war pirates and terrorists will do this, but if your goal is actually to win a war you want the citizens to like you as an invading force or to at least tolerate you, not hate you.  If you go off killing civilians left and right the only thing that will do is inspire civilians further to stand against you.

Now please, you are obviously only 18 and being overrun with information from many sources that are not always credible.  Take the advice of all of us on here and chill out.

I mean, I can understand his distain of what war is. War is hell. War is vile. The worst atrocities of humanity are usually in and around wars. Yet at the same time, some wars have purged us from evils that did their deeds in the shadows, only finding out the horrors once war was ended.

Atrocities are atrocities, but to say that all war is bad, to me, begs to justify regimes and perpetrators of the worst kinds of crimes - the ones that go unpunished. Americans have done some bastardly things in wars, but they pale in comparison to the things done by others in wars, and before wars were perpetrated.

If you read a lot of stuff about war, you have a healthy respect for what it does, and what it accomplishes in the face of pure evil. If it were not for intervention in some of the worst conflicts of humanity, they would of continued unchecked, and lay hidden in the dark, for us to never know the evils that were perpetrated behind 'peace'.

When you look at some of the war atrocities - the Rape of Nanking, Katyn Forest, the Soviet Occupation of post-war Germany, Pol Pot's post-war Cambodian regime, and dozens of others, you understand that, in very rare instances, war and the atrocities thereof are the lesser of two evils. I could not imagine a world to where we did not fight the Nazis, the or the North Koreans and Chinese. Instances like that are why I cannot always stomach pacificsm, because it seeks a world that does not exist - a world where no one is abused or hurt. Sadly, that is not the reality in a lot of places. God forgive us when North Korea collapses, and we find out what really went on while we were sitting in our warm houses, playing on the internet, and watching TV instead of engaging such a vile regime.

Why did Nazi Germany come to surface? Because of war reparations forced upon Germany after World war 1 compounded with the Great Depression.

Why did Pol Pot eradicate 2 million Cambodians who were on the Pro-American side? Because America's bomb campaign in Cambodia hit the wrong towns and killed millions of innocent civilians during the war.

Why did the war against Korea end in a neutrality with it being divded in the middle? Because America kept going further up and China had warned us that it felt threatened during the time we were winning the war.

War creates more war and genocides. These events WERE impacted because of American military action, though in the case of WW2, it was due to French and British politics of desiring to embarass Germany backed by combined military might.

You think I'm a delusional kid? You both haven't even made an argument against anything I've said. The other dude is just condescending and arrogant so I won't even respond to his childish rants.

You never answered my question:

Do you believe that the actions of Hitler, Pol Pot, Imperial Japan, and such should of continued unabated? I understand your points, but you didn't answer my question.


Hitler wouldn't have taken over had America never even bothered to step in. He was doomed the moment he betrayed the USSR. The Eastern Front was simply a battle he couldn't win. America going in was technically irrelevant on Hitler's end although, admittedly, it would have happened anyway since that idiot declared war on America only a few days after Pearl Harbor.

Imperial Japan would have been taken down by Russia, period. Japan was just a sad situation because their child of an emperor had no control over what his board did.

Pol Pot did what he did because he was convinced America was 'evil' and that all 'western influenced' Cambodians were evil. America's illegal bombing campaign by Nixon was one of the major factors in why Cambodians united under Pol Pot.  Not ONLY that, but you're ignoring the fact that America supported a Dictatorship of Lon Nol, who was a corrupt and vile tyrant himself, against Pol Pot's communism. Were you even aware of this? America was NOT supporting the establishment of a democracy in Cambodia.

America simply shouldn't be involved in these affairs. It's actions were a catalyst to the tragedies that occurred and usually cause more problems while wasting millions.

Just look at the American Civil war, it created the KKK, the black codes, and other Jim Crow laws that kept Blacks surpressed from having equal rights. What ended this terrible system? Non-violent civil disobediance.

People should learn: War is NEVER the answer.



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rocketpig said:
PhoenixKing said:

Why did Pol Pot eradicate 2 million Cambodians who were on the Pro-American side? Because America's bomb campaign in Cambodia hit the wrong towns and killed millions of innocent civilians during the war.

You're blaming Pol Pot's atrocities on... American bombs?

Wow, just wow. That dude was way up there on the batshit-crazy list. Nothing anyone did or didn't do would have change anything about that guy. He, like Stalin and Hitler, was just a bad guy. They exist, you know.

I've been to Cambodia, relatively recently.  I've seen the mass graves, spoken to some Cambodians about the atrocities.  They do NOT believe that Pol Pot was what he was because of America.  Phoenix is either blissfully naive or willing to say anything to justify getting out of consideration for the draft too himself.



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

PhoenixKing said:
voty2000 said:
PhoenixKing said:
mrstickball said:

Its a requirement to register, regardless.

I wouldn't worry about getting drafted. Unlikely to happen.

Besides, why are you so worried about joining the military? Too worried you may have to defend America?



There is no honor in death. I don't believe in any of this patriotic 'defending America' BS. Iraq wasn't for defending America, the military ended-up raping 13 year old girls in torture cells within that country (Look-up Abu Graib), and these actions were ordered under Defense Secrutary Rumsfeld. The more you know, huh?

Not only that, but I've been reading books about war and genocide for college and some of the material absolutely disgusts me. Rape motels, accidentally bombing innocent villages, and accidentally shooting children that are hiding in fear.

I never want to see war in my life. Sorry for being a Pacifist.

You're not gonna get drafted for an Iraq War situation.  You'll be drafted for a WW 3.  If you're unfit for duty, you won't be allowed in the military anyway.  If WW 3 occurs and you refuse to fight, then I'll call you a coward, because if the country is at risk of being overrun, all men have a duty to fight. 

And why should women have to fight?  Be a man, if a women wants to fight so be it and if women are needed then maybe a draft, but if the men of the country can handle the war then women should not be forced to fight.  That's a real bitch thing to say.

There is honor in death.  You take a bullet for your wife, you die with honor.  The men who died in WW I and WW II died with honor because without their death, Nazi forces will have taken over the world.  I can see your point about the Iraq War but those people chose to fight and whether you agree with the war or not, they died with honor, doing what they thought was right. 

If you're talking about reading books about the US military, these things happen and suck and are dealt with, but they are few and far between.  Shitty things happen when you gather masses of people.  People die on Black Friday at Wal-mart when the doors open.  That happened once and isn't the norm but people over-dramatize it and act like it occurs everywhere.  Rape, innocent people dying, and children being murdered occur stateside, so do you honestly think a few idiots in the military won't do the same thing in countries they are fighting?  The military can't weed out all psychos no matter how hard it tries, but these occurrences aren't the norm. 

YOU are living in a childhood fantasy crafted by movies and patriotic ramblings.

Military fighting isn't 'good vs bad'- light vs dark star wars BS.

It's going into peoples homes, forcing information from them, bombing innocent civilian areas because of enemy bases nearby or because that's how they get their food, it's killing children should you be ordered to do so, and it's sick and wrong.

These aren't 'over-dramatized isolated incidents'. They're fact. They happen all the time in wars. Civilians are the FIRST objective to be attacked so they don't join the opposing army or provide food for them.

Nazi's taking over the world? Nazi's had no chance of doing that because they were fighting a 2 front war and Russia was on our side.

Honor in dying? No such thing. Your wife would grieve for your death, no? Wouldn't she feel guilty about it?

Look at Abraham Lincoln, when he was killed, his wife went crazy and was sent to a mental institution because she thought anyone emotionally close to her would die (Her husband died after she lost 3 sons in the war).

Want to know why schools don't tell you this? Because NO ONE wants fresh and able-bodied military resources to be anything but happy about partaking in war.

Also, to put it in the most simplest terms, since I'm sure most of you don't believe me.

War's definition: Organized Murder.

That's it. That's all. It's no different than gangs killing people. You just wear an honorary uniform to do it.

This is the response I expected from you.  Rambling on and on with no real information.  So, if China(hypothetical) decides to take over the earth, should we let them, because if we fight back bad things will happen?  This is what happens when you don't think about the crap you a spewing.  It makes no sense. 

The allied forces attacking Germany had to happen.  You contradicted yourself pretty severely.  You say that Nazi's had no chance of taking over the world.  Why is that?  Because, GASP, people fought back.  If nobody fought back you would have never been born. 

With your ideals, I could get about 100 guys together and conquer the earth because war is murder so we shouldn't fight back.  Nobody fights back and kills me, we take over the world.  Glad people don't think like you.

As for honorable death, if you let your wife die and you could have saved her, you are a pathetic existence of a man.  I would rather die saving my loved ones than living the life of a coward and being treated as such.  A mourning wife is much better than a dead one.  Why can't you see that?  Because you don't think, you read some crap and believed.

You tell me I'm living a childhood fantasy.  Your most likely 17 or 18 so your still a child with distorted views of the world.  I guarantee that 5 years from now if you read this post again, you'll realize how wrong you are.  Know how I know this?  I used to be your age and said stupid stuff.  You'll grow smarter and wiser, and it's great.

I realize horrible things happen in wars and wish they wouldn't, but they are isolated incidents that aren't the norm, and these people get punished when they are caught.  Just because bad stuff happens, that doesn't mean you shouldn't fight.  The internet allows smut videos of people being murdered to be viewed by all, so by your logic, we should ban the internet.  Sounds ridiculous.

Now see I calmly I replied and expressed my viewpoints without looking like rabbling lunatic?  That's wisdom baby.



starcraft said:
 

What you're describing is how unethical armies and certain sadistic individuals (who exist EVERYWHERE including OUTSIDE of war) conduct warfare.  As someone else mentioned, when it comes to the US military, you're picking the isolated incidents and using them to indict the whole body.  The vast majority of the military strikes America has made SINCE THE COUNTRY'S INCEPTION have had risk/benefit analysis' made that incorporate civilian collatoral.

There is no instance of America EVER making it policy to attack civilians first.  EVER!

Honor in dying is a subjective thing I will grant you, but you're clearly the world's greatest pessimist if you genuinely believe it isn't possible in any scenario.

And now I feel like and idiot, because I just realized I spent time responding to someone who appears to have just claimed it wasn't worth fighting the Nazi's...


I agree with what you're saying in principal, but I question the bolded. What about the Hamburg/Dresden firebombing in WW2? What about the atomic bomb drops? I don't want to get into a debate about the ethics of these events, but they do seem to be attacks where the immediate goal was civilian casualties.



voty2000 said:
PhoenixKing said:
voty2000 said:
PhoenixKing said:
mrstickball said:

Its a requirement to register, regardless.

I wouldn't worry about getting drafted. Unlikely to happen.

Besides, why are you so worried about joining the military? Too worried you may have to defend America?



There is no honor in death. I don't believe in any of this patriotic 'defending America' BS. Iraq wasn't for defending America, the military ended-up raping 13 year old girls in torture cells within that country (Look-up Abu Graib), and these actions were ordered under Defense Secrutary Rumsfeld. The more you know, huh?

Not only that, but I've been reading books about war and genocide for college and some of the material absolutely disgusts me. Rape motels, accidentally bombing innocent villages, and accidentally shooting children that are hiding in fear.

I never want to see war in my life. Sorry for being a Pacifist.

You're not gonna get drafted for an Iraq War situation.  You'll be drafted for a WW 3.  If you're unfit for duty, you won't be allowed in the military anyway.  If WW 3 occurs and you refuse to fight, then I'll call you a coward, because if the country is at risk of being overrun, all men have a duty to fight. 

And why should women have to fight?  Be a man, if a women wants to fight so be it and if women are needed then maybe a draft, but if the men of the country can handle the war then women should not be forced to fight.  That's a real bitch thing to say.

There is honor in death.  You take a bullet for your wife, you die with honor.  The men who died in WW I and WW II died with honor because without their death, Nazi forces will have taken over the world.  I can see your point about the Iraq War but those people chose to fight and whether you agree with the war or not, they died with honor, doing what they thought was right. 

If you're talking about reading books about the US military, these things happen and suck and are dealt with, but they are few and far between.  Shitty things happen when you gather masses of people.  People die on Black Friday at Wal-mart when the doors open.  That happened once and isn't the norm but people over-dramatize it and act like it occurs everywhere.  Rape, innocent people dying, and children being murdered occur stateside, so do you honestly think a few idiots in the military won't do the same thing in countries they are fighting?  The military can't weed out all psychos no matter how hard it tries, but these occurrences aren't the norm. 

YOU are living in a childhood fantasy crafted by movies and patriotic ramblings.

Military fighting isn't 'good vs bad'- light vs dark star wars BS.

It's going into peoples homes, forcing information from them, bombing innocent civilian areas because of enemy bases nearby or because that's how they get their food, it's killing children should you be ordered to do so, and it's sick and wrong.

These aren't 'over-dramatized isolated incidents'. They're fact. They happen all the time in wars. Civilians are the FIRST objective to be attacked so they don't join the opposing army or provide food for them.

Nazi's taking over the world? Nazi's had no chance of doing that because they were fighting a 2 front war and Russia was on our side.

Honor in dying? No such thing. Your wife would grieve for your death, no? Wouldn't she feel guilty about it?

Look at Abraham Lincoln, when he was killed, his wife went crazy and was sent to a mental institution because she thought anyone emotionally close to her would die (Her husband died after she lost 3 sons in the war).

Want to know why schools don't tell you this? Because NO ONE wants fresh and able-bodied military resources to be anything but happy about partaking in war.

Also, to put it in the most simplest terms, since I'm sure most of you don't believe me.

War's definition: Organized Murder.

That's it. That's all. It's no different than gangs killing people. You just wear an honorary uniform to do it.

This is the response I expected from you.  Rambling on and on with no real information.  So, if China(hypothetical) decides to take over the earth, should we let them, because if we fight back bad things will happen?  This is what happens when you don't think about the crap you a spewing.  It makes no sense. 

The allied forces attacking Germany had to happen.  You contradicted yourself pretty severely.  You say that Nazi's had no chance of taking over the world.  Why is that?  Because, GASP, people fought back.  If nobody fought back you would have never been born. 

With your ideals, I could get about 100 guys together and conquer the earth because war is murder so we shouldn't fight back.  Nobody fights back and kills me, we take over the world.  Glad people don't think like you.

As for honorable death, if you let your wife die and you could have saved her, you are a pathetic existence of a man.  I would rather die saving my loved ones than living the life of a coward and being treated as such.  A mourning wife is much better than a dead one.  Why can't you see that?  Because you don't think, you read some crap and believed.

You tell me I'm living a childhood fantasy.  Your most likely 17 or 18 so your still a child with distorted views of the world.  I guarantee that 5 years from now if you read this post again, you'll realize how wrong you are.  Know how I know this?  I used to be your age and said stupid stuff.  You'll grow smarter and wiser, and it's great.

I realize horrible things happen in wars and wish they wouldn't, but they are isolated incidents that aren't the norm, and these people get punished when they are caught.  Just because bad stuff happens, that doesn't mean you shouldn't fight.  The internet allows smut videos of people being murdered to be viewed by all, so by your logic, we should ban the internet.  Sounds ridiculous.

Now see I calmly I replied and expressed my viewpoints without looking like rabbling lunatic?  That's wisdom baby.



You're just using strawman and condescending insults. That's all you do. You haven't made any specific credible reasons on why I'm wrong. You just say I am.

They aren't isolated incidents, never have been, and you haven't provided any factual basis for any of your arguments. Then you insult me over a hypothetical situation about a dead wife, of which I gave you a actual historic event that happened to an American president as a counter argument.

You're not arguing anything. You just insult. It's ridiculous. I'll stop taking you seriously as that was clearly my mistake.



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starcraft said:
rocketpig said:
PhoenixKing said:

Why did Pol Pot eradicate 2 million Cambodians who were on the Pro-American side? Because America's bomb campaign in Cambodia hit the wrong towns and killed millions of innocent civilians during the war.

You're blaming Pol Pot's atrocities on... American bombs?

Wow, just wow. That dude was way up there on the batshit-crazy list. Nothing anyone did or didn't do would have change anything about that guy. He, like Stalin and Hitler, was just a bad guy. They exist, you know.

I've been to Cambodia, relatively recently.  I've seen the mass graves, spoken to some Cambodians about the atrocities.  They do NOT believe that Pol Pot was what he was because of America.  Phoenix is either blissfully naive or willing to say anything to justify getting out of consideration for the draft too himself.

Prove you were there. Provide pictures, dates, and other such information because I think it's clear that you're lying.

Regardless, yes Pol Pot had an obvious psychological issue but you completely missed the point that Pol Pot was supported because America was the one bombing civilian areas illegally, America supported a dictator that was little better than Pol Pot, and America wasn't supporting the establishment of a democracy.

You know what? I'll stop now. All I'm getting are insults toward my character without anyone actually making an argument against anything I've specified regarding war using actual facts.



sapphi_snake said:
voty2000 said:

You're not gonna get drafted for an Iraq War situation.  You'll be drafted for a WW 3.  If you're unfit for duty, you won't be allowed in the military anyway.  If WW 3 occurs and you refuse to fight, then I'll call you a coward, because if the country is at risk of being overrun, all men have a duty to fight. 

And why should women have to fight?  Be a man, if a women wants to fight so be it and if women are needed then maybe a draft, but if the men of the country can handle the war then women should not be forced to fight.  That's a real bitch thing to say.

There is honor in death.  You take a bullet for your wife, you die with honor.  The men who died in WW I and WW II died with honor because without their death, Nazi forces will have taken over the world.  I can see your point about the Iraq War but those people chose to fight and whether you agree with the war or not, they died with honor, doing what they thought was right. 

If you're talking about reading books about the US military, these things happen and suck and are dealt with, but they are few and far between.  Shitty things happen when you gather masses of people.  People die on Black Friday at Wal-mart when the doors open.  That happened once and isn't the norm but people over-dramatize it and act like it occurs everywhere.  Rape, innocent people dying, and children being murdered occur stateside, so do you honestly think a few idiots in the military won't do the same thing in countries they are fighting?  The military can't weed out all psychos no matter how hard it tries, but these occurrences aren't the norm. 

LOL, someone's been watching too much silly war movies (and is a misogynist too).


Explain yourself.  What have I said that can be derived by movies?  Saying there is honor in death is silly and can only be taught from war movies?  So what are we supposed to say about the people that died on the allied forces, fuck you dead bitch?  I'm not praising anybody or saying that veterans are greater than others, I'm saying they died an honorable death and deserve respect.  No matter how cliche it is to say this, you wouldn't be here if it weren't for people fighting before you were ever born.  Show a little respect.  Or maybe we should dig up of the dead soldiers in the Arlington Cemetary because they don't deserve respect, their dead and should be thrown in the ocean.

And about women.  I'm a misogynist?  Did I say women couldn't fight?  Did I say women are inferior to men?  NO, I said that men should protect women when we can.  If they don't want to be protected, so be it.  I'm not forcing anything on anybody.  I respect women and do what I can for them.  That's what men do.  Do I hold the door open for a woman because she can't?  Nope, I do it because she doesn't have to.

If your gonna insult someone put some effort into it.  You post is drivel and has no substance.  I should have ignored it because it deserves no response but I don't won't other people to get the wrong idea about my post. 



PhoenixKing said:
voty2000 said:
PhoenixKing said:
voty2000 said:
PhoenixKing said:
mrstickball said:

Its a requirement to register, regardless.

I wouldn't worry about getting drafted. Unlikely to happen.

Besides, why are you so worried about joining the military? Too worried you may have to defend America?



There is no honor in death. I don't believe in any of this patriotic 'defending America' BS. Iraq wasn't for defending America, the military ended-up raping 13 year old girls in torture cells within that country (Look-up Abu Graib), and these actions were ordered under Defense Secrutary Rumsfeld. The more you know, huh?

Not only that, but I've been reading books about war and genocide for college and some of the material absolutely disgusts me. Rape motels, accidentally bombing innocent villages, and accidentally shooting children that are hiding in fear.

I never want to see war in my life. Sorry for being a Pacifist.

You're not gonna get drafted for an Iraq War situation.  You'll be drafted for a WW 3.  If you're unfit for duty, you won't be allowed in the military anyway.  If WW 3 occurs and you refuse to fight, then I'll call you a coward, because if the country is at risk of being overrun, all men have a duty to fight. 

And why should women have to fight?  Be a man, if a women wants to fight so be it and if women are needed then maybe a draft, but if the men of the country can handle the war then women should not be forced to fight.  That's a real bitch thing to say.

There is honor in death.  You take a bullet for your wife, you die with honor.  The men who died in WW I and WW II died with honor because without their death, Nazi forces will have taken over the world.  I can see your point about the Iraq War but those people chose to fight and whether you agree with the war or not, they died with honor, doing what they thought was right. 

If you're talking about reading books about the US military, these things happen and suck and are dealt with, but they are few and far between.  Shitty things happen when you gather masses of people.  People die on Black Friday at Wal-mart when the doors open.  That happened once and isn't the norm but people over-dramatize it and act like it occurs everywhere.  Rape, innocent people dying, and children being murdered occur stateside, so do you honestly think a few idiots in the military won't do the same thing in countries they are fighting?  The military can't weed out all psychos no matter how hard it tries, but these occurrences aren't the norm. 

YOU are living in a childhood fantasy crafted by movies and patriotic ramblings.

Military fighting isn't 'good vs bad'- light vs dark star wars BS.

It's going into peoples homes, forcing information from them, bombing innocent civilian areas because of enemy bases nearby or because that's how they get their food, it's killing children should you be ordered to do so, and it's sick and wrong.

These aren't 'over-dramatized isolated incidents'. They're fact. They happen all the time in wars. Civilians are the FIRST objective to be attacked so they don't join the opposing army or provide food for them.

Nazi's taking over the world? Nazi's had no chance of doing that because they were fighting a 2 front war and Russia was on our side.

Honor in dying? No such thing. Your wife would grieve for your death, no? Wouldn't she feel guilty about it?

Look at Abraham Lincoln, when he was killed, his wife went crazy and was sent to a mental institution because she thought anyone emotionally close to her would die (Her husband died after she lost 3 sons in the war).

Want to know why schools don't tell you this? Because NO ONE wants fresh and able-bodied military resources to be anything but happy about partaking in war.

Also, to put it in the most simplest terms, since I'm sure most of you don't believe me.

War's definition: Organized Murder.

That's it. That's all. It's no different than gangs killing people. You just wear an honorary uniform to do it.

This is the response I expected from you.  Rambling on and on with no real information.  So, if China(hypothetical) decides to take over the earth, should we let them, because if we fight back bad things will happen?  This is what happens when you don't think about the crap you a spewing.  It makes no sense. 

The allied forces attacking Germany had to happen.  You contradicted yourself pretty severely.  You say that Nazi's had no chance of taking over the world.  Why is that?  Because, GASP, people fought back.  If nobody fought back you would have never been born. 

With your ideals, I could get about 100 guys together and conquer the earth because war is murder so we shouldn't fight back.  Nobody fights back and kills me, we take over the world.  Glad people don't think like you.

As for honorable death, if you let your wife die and you could have saved her, you are a pathetic existence of a man.  I would rather die saving my loved ones than living the life of a coward and being treated as such.  A mourning wife is much better than a dead one.  Why can't you see that?  Because you don't think, you read some crap and believed.

You tell me I'm living a childhood fantasy.  Your most likely 17 or 18 so your still a child with distorted views of the world.  I guarantee that 5 years from now if you read this post again, you'll realize how wrong you are.  Know how I know this?  I used to be your age and said stupid stuff.  You'll grow smarter and wiser, and it's great.

I realize horrible things happen in wars and wish they wouldn't, but they are isolated incidents that aren't the norm, and these people get punished when they are caught.  Just because bad stuff happens, that doesn't mean you shouldn't fight.  The internet allows smut videos of people being murdered to be viewed by all, so by your logic, we should ban the internet.  Sounds ridiculous.

Now see I calmly I replied and expressed my viewpoints without looking like rabbling lunatic?  That's wisdom baby.



You're just using strawman and condescending insults. That's all you do. You haven't made any specific credible reasons on why I'm wrong. You just say I am.

They aren't isolated incidents, never have been, and you haven't provided any factual basis for any of your arguments. Then you insult me over a hypothetical situation about a dead wife, of which I gave you a actual historic event that happened to an American president as a counter argument.

You're not arguing anything. You just insult. It's ridiculous. I'll stop taking you seriously as that was clearly my mistake.

Where are your facts?  You said you read a book and wathced some films.  That's a fact?  You have not explained anything and you have proven nothing.  You spouted off random crap like I'm supposed to simply believe it.  You complain about me insulting you but your first line in your first reply was an insult at me.  Wow, dish it bet can't take it.  Yes I am be condescending because you keep stating stuff like it's fact without backing anything up.  Read your posts and show me the facts.  Please, show me these facts I need to disprove.

It's clearly evident that your not afraid of war, your afraid of death.



voty2000 said:
PhoenixKing said:
voty2000 said:
PhoenixKing said:
voty2000 said:
PhoenixKing said:
mrstickball said:

Its a requirement to register, regardless.

I wouldn't worry about getting drafted. Unlikely to happen.

Besides, why are you so worried about joining the military? Too worried you may have to defend America?



There is no honor in death. I don't believe in any of this patriotic 'defending America' BS. Iraq wasn't for defending America, the military ended-up raping 13 year old girls in torture cells within that country (Look-up Abu Graib), and these actions were ordered under Defense Secrutary Rumsfeld. The more you know, huh?

Not only that, but I've been reading books about war and genocide for college and some of the material absolutely disgusts me. Rape motels, accidentally bombing innocent villages, and accidentally shooting children that are hiding in fear.

I never want to see war in my life. Sorry for being a Pacifist.

You're not gonna get drafted for an Iraq War situation.  You'll be drafted for a WW 3.  If you're unfit for duty, you won't be allowed in the military anyway.  If WW 3 occurs and you refuse to fight, then I'll call you a coward, because if the country is at risk of being overrun, all men have a duty to fight. 

And why should women have to fight?  Be a man, if a women wants to fight so be it and if women are needed then maybe a draft, but if the men of the country can handle the war then women should not be forced to fight.  That's a real bitch thing to say.

There is honor in death.  You take a bullet for your wife, you die with honor.  The men who died in WW I and WW II died with honor because without their death, Nazi forces will have taken over the world.  I can see your point about the Iraq War but those people chose to fight and whether you agree with the war or not, they died with honor, doing what they thought was right. 

If you're talking about reading books about the US military, these things happen and suck and are dealt with, but they are few and far between.  Shitty things happen when you gather masses of people.  People die on Black Friday at Wal-mart when the doors open.  That happened once and isn't the norm but people over-dramatize it and act like it occurs everywhere.  Rape, innocent people dying, and children being murdered occur stateside, so do you honestly think a few idiots in the military won't do the same thing in countries they are fighting?  The military can't weed out all psychos no matter how hard it tries, but these occurrences aren't the norm. 

YOU are living in a childhood fantasy crafted by movies and patriotic ramblings.

Military fighting isn't 'good vs bad'- light vs dark star wars BS.

It's going into peoples homes, forcing information from them, bombing innocent civilian areas because of enemy bases nearby or because that's how they get their food, it's killing children should you be ordered to do so, and it's sick and wrong.

These aren't 'over-dramatized isolated incidents'. They're fact. They happen all the time in wars. Civilians are the FIRST objective to be attacked so they don't join the opposing army or provide food for them.

Nazi's taking over the world? Nazi's had no chance of doing that because they were fighting a 2 front war and Russia was on our side.

Honor in dying? No such thing. Your wife would grieve for your death, no? Wouldn't she feel guilty about it?

Look at Abraham Lincoln, when he was killed, his wife went crazy and was sent to a mental institution because she thought anyone emotionally close to her would die (Her husband died after she lost 3 sons in the war).

Want to know why schools don't tell you this? Because NO ONE wants fresh and able-bodied military resources to be anything but happy about partaking in war.

Also, to put it in the most simplest terms, since I'm sure most of you don't believe me.

War's definition: Organized Murder.

That's it. That's all. It's no different than gangs killing people. You just wear an honorary uniform to do it.

This is the response I expected from you.  Rambling on and on with no real information.  So, if China(hypothetical) decides to take over the earth, should we let them, because if we fight back bad things will happen?  This is what happens when you don't think about the crap you a spewing.  It makes no sense. 

The allied forces attacking Germany had to happen.  You contradicted yourself pretty severely.  You say that Nazi's had no chance of taking over the world.  Why is that?  Because, GASP, people fought back.  If nobody fought back you would have never been born. 

With your ideals, I could get about 100 guys together and conquer the earth because war is murder so we shouldn't fight back.  Nobody fights back and kills me, we take over the world.  Glad people don't think like you.

As for honorable death, if you let your wife die and you could have saved her, you are a pathetic existence of a man.  I would rather die saving my loved ones than living the life of a coward and being treated as such.  A mourning wife is much better than a dead one.  Why can't you see that?  Because you don't think, you read some crap and believed.

You tell me I'm living a childhood fantasy.  Your most likely 17 or 18 so your still a child with distorted views of the world.  I guarantee that 5 years from now if you read this post again, you'll realize how wrong you are.  Know how I know this?  I used to be your age and said stupid stuff.  You'll grow smarter and wiser, and it's great.

I realize horrible things happen in wars and wish they wouldn't, but they are isolated incidents that aren't the norm, and these people get punished when they are caught.  Just because bad stuff happens, that doesn't mean you shouldn't fight.  The internet allows smut videos of people being murdered to be viewed by all, so by your logic, we should ban the internet.  Sounds ridiculous.

Now see I calmly I replied and expressed my viewpoints without looking like rabbling lunatic?  That's wisdom baby.



You're just using strawman and condescending insults. That's all you do. You haven't made any specific credible reasons on why I'm wrong. You just say I am.

They aren't isolated incidents, never have been, and you haven't provided any factual basis for any of your arguments. Then you insult me over a hypothetical situation about a dead wife, of which I gave you a actual historic event that happened to an American president as a counter argument.

You're not arguing anything. You just insult. It's ridiculous. I'll stop taking you seriously as that was clearly my mistake.

Where are your facts?  You said you read a book and wathced some films.  That's a fact?  You have not explained anything and you have proven nothing.  You spouted off random crap like I'm supposed to simply believe it.  You complain about me insulting you but your first line in your first reply was an insult at me.  Wow, dish it bet can't take it.  Yes I am be condescending because you keep stating stuff like it's fact without backing anything up.  Read your posts and show me the facts.  Please, show me these facts I need to disprove.

It's clearly evident that your not afraid of war, your afraid of death.

Random crap? You obviously never even studied the history of Cambodia if you think that's all random crap.

Movie: The Killing Fields.

Books: A problem from Hell by Samantha Power, War is a Force which gives us meaning by Chris Hedges, among many journals and news articles I've also read about the subjects.

Anyone who studied Cambodia would know without doubt that the information I was telling you was accurate. It's not me who argues from ignorance and insults others character.

Again, you have no credible sources, never bothered to provide any, and have only ever insulted me as a person instead of actually providing a counter argument. I'm not taking you seriously anymore, you don't deserve that kind of respect because of your actions.

Perhaps I seem riled-up, but it's justified, I'm no longer speaking to people who essentially take things 'in one ear and out the other'.

Resume insulting me, if you wish. Good day.



voty2000 said:
sapphi_snake said:
voty2000 said:

You're not gonna get drafted for an Iraq War situation.  You'll be drafted for a WW 3.  If you're unfit for duty, you won't be allowed in the military anyway.  If WW 3 occurs and you refuse to fight, then I'll call you a coward, because if the country is at risk of being overrun, all men have a duty to fight. 

And why should women have to fight?  Be a man, if a women wants to fight so be it and if women are needed then maybe a draft, but if the men of the country can handle the war then women should not be forced to fight.  That's a real bitch thing to say.

There is honor in death.  You take a bullet for your wife, you die with honor.  The men who died in WW I and WW II died with honor because without their death, Nazi forces will have taken over the world.  I can see your point about the Iraq War but those people chose to fight and whether you agree with the war or not, they died with honor, doing what they thought was right. 

If you're talking about reading books about the US military, these things happen and suck and are dealt with, but they are few and far between.  Shitty things happen when you gather masses of people.  People die on Black Friday at Wal-mart when the doors open.  That happened once and isn't the norm but people over-dramatize it and act like it occurs everywhere.  Rape, innocent people dying, and children being murdered occur stateside, so do you honestly think a few idiots in the military won't do the same thing in countries they are fighting?  The military can't weed out all psychos no matter how hard it tries, but these occurrences aren't the norm. 

LOL, someone's been watching too much silly war movies (and is a misogynist too).


Explain yourself.  What have I said that can be derived by movies?  Saying there is honor in death is silly and can only be taught from war movies?  So what are we supposed to say about the people that died on the allied forces, fuck you dead bitch?  I'm not praising anybody or saying that veterans are greater than others, I'm saying they died an honorable death and deserve respect.  No matter how cliche it is to say this, you wouldn't be here if it weren't for people fighting before you were ever born.  Show a little respect.  Or maybe we should dig up of the dead soldiers in the Arlington Cemetary because they don't deserve respect, their dead and should be thrown in the ocean.

And about women.  I'm a misogynist?  Did I say women couldn't fight?  Did I say women are inferior to men?  NO, I said that men should protect women when we can.  If they don't want to be protected, so be it.  I'm not forcing anything on anybody.  I respect women and do what I can for them.  That's what men do.  Do I hold the door open for a woman because she can't?  Nope, I do it because she doesn't have to.

If your gonna insult someone put some effort into it.  You post is drivel and has no substance.  I should have ignored it because it deserves no response but I don't won't other people to get the wrong idea about my post. 

Pot meet kettle.