Forums - Sony Discussion - PLAYSTATION MOVE issue?

just like motion control's were being developed for the Game Cube so was Sony with the PS2!

Wednesday, October 05, 2005

Sony wizards up wand patent promise

"A fishy thing called Wanda

Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.usTHOUGH IT has only recently surfaced it looks like Sony holds a patent that looks marvellously close to Nintendo's Revolution controller.

This patent is for a gaming "wand" and was filed in December 2004. Nobody is sure how this has managed to keep quiet for so long but if you care to read through this document you'll see that there are more than a few similarities.

While it seems to have been initially developed for the PS2 nobody has seen anything of it apart from the document linked above. This could, of course, mean that the project has been completely abandoned but there is still the option that it will show up on the PS3. With Nintendo's new controller raking in so much popularity it would be easy for Sony to unearth a patent like this and get to work on it before the release of the PS3; had it not been planned already.

The details could be interpreted in any number of ways but the "wand" interacts with a webcam designed only to respond to certain colours of light (most likely infra-red) and ignore ambient lights. This information is then broken down to positions and movement and sorted out by the console itself. Unfortunately it is completely unclear whether or not this would be a webcam designed purely for the purpose or whether this is another peripheral for the eye toy… which would be quite a disappointment.

Both Sony and Microsoft have worked on this kind of technology already to some extent, though neither seem to have applied it as well as Nintendo. The real question left on my mind is, with Sony saying it still has a big surprise to be revealed in February, could be a planned unveiling of something to replace the infamous "boomerang" pad?"



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

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Bamboleo said:
@ joeorc

I have one single question for you.

If Sony was planning the PS Move since 2004 why this statement form themselves?

"I think the notion of that controller is a non-trivial point that you’ve brought up, that control and that familiarity is like comfort food - from my perspective, we lead, we don’t follow. And as a brand, Nintendo’s got their thing, and we’re not trying to get the senior citizen group to get into gaming"

", but we’d never consider iterating off of existing competitive technology - because we think that’s a fad and that’s not the way we approach product development. It’s not the way we approach the marketing or the branding of PlayStation."

I'd really like someone to explain this. A company that "is creating" a motion sensing pad trolling themselves? ;)

Ups ;)

if you would have bothered to look up comment's by DR. Marks you would already know the answer to this question. did you not see how well the eyetoy was taken by storm on the ps2 gamer's! lol

the very fact that the higher ups already did motion control's with the Eyetoy and it did not take off as well as Sony would have liked, also DR. Mark's recomended and stated many time's that due to the Hardware limit's that the PS2 had that the lab made a review and their result's are that going forward or not even release the PSWand before or even until  after the next playstation was released. they felt the PS2 was not robust in it's hardware to handle the higher function's needed for the PSWand requirement's.

 



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

Arius Dion said:
Bamboleo said:
@ joeorc

I have one single question for you.

If Sony was planning the PS Move since 2004 why this statement form themselves?

"I think the notion of that controller is a non-trivial point that you’ve brought up, that control and that familiarity is like comfort food - from my perspective, we lead, we don’t follow. And as a brand, Nintendo’s got their thing, and we’re not trying to get the senior citizen group to get into gaming"

", but we’d never consider iterating off of existing competitive technology - because we think that’s a fad and that’s not the way we approach product development. It’s not the way we approach the marketing or the branding of PlayStation."

I'd really like someone to explain this. A company that "is creating" a motion sensing pad trolling themselves? ;)

Ups ;)


LoL.

I wonder the amount of Spin Skill one needs to justify this.

Still waiting for a response ;)

 

 



Bamboleo said:
Arius Dion said:
Bamboleo said:
@ joeorc

I have one single question for you.

If Sony was planning the PS Move since 2004 why this statement form themselves?

"I think the notion of that controller is a non-trivial point that you’ve brought up, that control and that familiarity is like comfort food - from my perspective, we lead, we don’t follow. And as a brand, Nintendo’s got their thing, and we’re not trying to get the senior citizen group to get into gaming"

", but we’d never consider iterating off of existing competitive technology - because we think that’s a fad and that’s not the way we approach product development. It’s not the way we approach the marketing or the branding of PlayStation."

I'd really like someone to explain this. A company that "is creating" a motion sensing pad trolling themselves? ;)

Ups ;)


LoL.

I wonder the amount of Spin Skill one needs to justify this.

Still waiting for a response ;)

 

 

ok spin this:

Inventors: Shimizu; Takao (Kyoto, JP); Suzuki; Toshiaki (Kyoto, JP)
Assignee: Nintendo Co., Ltd. (Kyoto, JP)
Appl. No.: 440111
Filed: May 19, 2003


BACKGROUND AND SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION

Japanese Patent Laid-Open Publication No. 2001-170358 discloses a game system (hereinafter, referred to as "a conventional technique") using a tilt sensor. In this conventional technique, when a handheld game device or a game controller (hereinafter, referred to as "a game device, etc." in place of "a handheld game device or a game controller") is tilted, a game image is generated in which an object such as a player character, etc., moves (rolls over) in the direction of tilt, thereby allowing a player to feel as if a game space is actually tilted in accordance with a tilt of the game device, etc.

The above described conventional technique, however, is used for controlling a two-dimensional game image, and cannot be adapted to a three-dimensional game image which has become prevalent as a game image.

that's nintendo's patent!

look up Sony's and you will see there is no spin, claim all you want Sony did not copy nor did Nintendo Copy Sony they were both working on the same IDEA for Motion controll's, since the DEVELOPMENT OF THE Nintendo Wii mote was being development since the Game cube why was it not released for the Game cube also?

it's simple

it also was not ready yet.



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

To 99% of people out there, it does not matter who truly had the technology first. To them, it will seem as if the Sony Move is Wii Remote-like.

To the casual gamer, this could be seen as "this is what the Wii HD should have been" (as Pacther thinks). Or this could be seen as "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

Given the price point, I doubt many people will upgrade from the Wii (as Pacther predicts). But it might cause a few people to think about the versatility of the machine and purchase a new PS3 as opposed to a Wii or Xbox 360. (Or course Natal could do that for the Xbox 360 and the new WS/WSR/WM+ standard package as of May 9 in North America could do that for Wii.).

A bigger concern is software. When Brunswick Bowling is included the Game Informer preview, that has me worried. (The game was shovelware on the Wii -- not as good as Wii Sports' Bowling).

Mike from Morgantown



      


I am Mario.


I like to jump around, and would lead a fairly serene and aimless existence if it weren't for my friends always getting into trouble. I love to help out, even when it puts me at risk. I seem to make friends with people who just can't stay out of trouble.

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mike_intellivision said:
To 99% of people out there, it does not matter who truly had the technology first. To them, it will seem as if the Sony Move is Wii Remote-like.

To the casual gamer, this could be seen as "this is what the Wii HD should have been" (as Pacther thinks). Or this could be seen as "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

Given the price point, I doubt many people will upgrade from the Wii (as Pacther predicts). But it might cause a few people to think about the versatility of the machine and purchase a new PS3 as opposed to a Wii or Xbox 360. (Or course Natal could do that for the Xbox 360 and the new WS/WSR/WM+ standard package as of May 9 in North America could do that for Wii.).

A bigger concern is software. When Brunswick Bowling is included the Game Informer preview, that has me worried. (The game was shovelware on the Wii -- not as good as Wii Sports' Bowling).

Mike from Morgantown

yea i completely agree , but also Sony had already stated that was a pre alpha build for the game, so it was no where near ready they were just showing what it was in development and since you also own a Wii like my family does.

you know as well as I do one of the first game's that motion control's are geared for just because of the way the motion control's on Both Nintendo's and Sony's machine's work, bowling would be one of the first  type of game most likely that come's to mind when developing a game for motion control's. even with No controller in hand Microsoft's motion control will in all likelihood have also some bowling fun.



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

This is only an issue because Sony bad mouthed the entire idea of motion control. They made considerable negative commentary not on tech, but the entire notion. They shit on the notion of motion, they shit on the notion of expanded gamers, they shit on the notion of new experience. They shit on everything the Nintendo tried to do.

Then boom a couple of days later the SIXAXIS. Few years down the road Sony is now the beacon of light of expanded audience, new experience and motion controls for the PS3 fans. If Sony actually had showed any modicum of respect towards some company for taking a risk rather that shitting on everything Nintendo was trying to do then this attitude would not exists. Since then the Sony group has taken a massive beating. Everything that Sony fans believe in have been put to test and been failing miserably. There are no saving games and now things are coming into perspective.

There also blind spot's that some people like to use. Trying bend the story of firsts. In business it's a business decision, not technical achievements. This argument here. The truth is that this argument as some valid points. Though remember half truths can make lies. Many companies have R&D departments. What isn't being stated is that dozens of companies have developed similar tech over the years. Not just Sony. Wands/Pointers have been around for a while. Secondly Nintendo biggest inspiration is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirby_Tilt_'n'_Tumble again something that people would love for you to forget. The game was released in 2000. Which means there was about 1998 is when development started and probably 1997 when the idea was offered to Nintendo. No notice of these parts of the argument is there?

The best thing to consider is not where Nintendo got technology. I'm 100% positive that Kirby's Tilt and Tumble was inspired by technology that they saw elsewhere at various technological shows, but we should mostly consider Nintendos effort to actually put advancing controller technology into play. It's business not R&D that drives the industry. Something again that people would rather consider insignificant.



Squilliam: On Vgcharts its a commonly accepted practice to twist the bounds of plausibility in order to support your argument or agenda so I think its pretty cool that this gives me the precedent to say whatever I damn well please.

mike_intellivision said:
To 99% of people out there, it does not matter who truly had the technology first. To them, it will seem as if the Sony Move is Wii Remote-like.

To the casual gamer, this could be seen as "this is what the Wii HD should have been" (as Pacther thinks). Or this could be seen as "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

Given the price point, I doubt many people will upgrade from the Wii (as Pacther predicts). But it might cause a few people to think about the versatility of the machine and purchase a new PS3 as opposed to a Wii or Xbox 360. (Or course Natal could do that for the Xbox 360 and the new WS/WSR/WM+ standard package as of May 9 in North America could do that for Wii.).

A bigger concern is software. When Brunswick Bowling is included the Game Informer preview, that has me worried. (The game was shovelware on the Wii -- not as good as Wii Sports' Bowling).

Mike from Morgantown

Good Point !

SONY need to differentiate big time or when they launch they will be playing an expensive Motion control system (When you facotr in the cost of the console )off against a really cheap designed to use Motion control from the ground up system.

The PS3 offering could be nearly 3 times as expensive.

I think the casuals will just buy a Wii and the PS3 Hardcore market will be fragmented into Move Lovers and Move Haters.

I hope SONY have a realistic MOVE price point and a whopping advertising budget.



.jayderyu said:
This is only an issue because Sony bad mouthed the entire idea of motion control. They made considerable negative commentary not on tech, but the entire notion. They shit on the notion of motion, they shit on the notion of expanded gamers, they shit on the notion of new experience. They shit on everything the Nintendo tried to do.

Then boom a couple of days later the SIXAXIS. Few years down the road Sony is now the beacon of light of expanded audience, new experience and motion controls for the PS3 fans. If Sony actually had showed any modicum of respect towards some company for taking a risk rather that shitting on everything Nintendo was trying to do then this attitude would not exists. Since then the Sony group has taken a massive beating. Everything that Sony fans believe in have been put to test and been failing miserably. There are no saving games and now things are coming into perspective.

There also blind spot's that some people like to use. Trying bend the story of firsts. In business it's a business decision, not technical achievements. This argument here. The truth is that this argument as some valid points. Though remember half truths can make lies. Many companies have R&D departments. What isn't being stated is that dozens of companies have developed similar tech over the years. Not just Sony. Wands/Pointers have been around for a while. Secondly Nintendo biggest inspiration is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirby_Tilt_'n'_Tumble again something that people would love for you to forget. The game was released in 2000. Which means there was about 1998 is when development started and probably 1997 when the idea was offered to Nintendo. No notice of these parts of the argument is there?

The best thing to consider is not where Nintendo got technology. I'm 100% positive that Kirby's Tilt and Tumble was inspired by technology that they saw elsewhere at various technological shows, but we should mostly consider Nintendos effort to actually put advancing controller technology into play. It's business not R&D that drives the industry. Something again that people would rather consider insignificant.

"This is only an issue because Sony bad mouthed the entire idea of motion control"

no it's more the IDEA to rag on Sony because it's Sony. just like there are people that will rag on Microsoft or Nintendo because it's Nintendo or Microsoft!

what one PR of each company say's just give's that outspoken more of a reason to keep browbeating a company. because they already do it anyway!

with out the R&D no development!, you cannot have it both way's yes the business end is just as important, but so is the R&D.

No matter How people like to claim one copy's over the other in most cases it's not true at all, what is true is someone in most likelihood get's their technology out first!

just because someone releases it first does not mean they have complete ownership of the IDEA!

 



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

Rpruett said:
Garnett said:
Rpruett said:
Garnett said:
leo-j said:
they are so copying nintendo EVEN THOUGH THEY FUCKING HAD THE SAME TECH IN 2004, they are still copying nintendo.

My take on it, if it wasn't for nintendo sony wouldn't have released move, but MOVE is not a copy, since it was in development since will before the wii was even shown in public

I hate to sound like a dick but..

 

Did Sony ever bundle it with every console?

 

Fact is Nintendo took the risk and succeded now Sony and MS watch a piece of the motion control market. Both MS and Sony are copying Nintendo in there own ways.

 

Sure Natal is different, but its gonna compete with Wii mote.

The PS mote might be a complete copy but its better than the basic Wii mote which is a huge plus (No pun intended)

But again, Nintendo took the tech primarily from Sony's piggy bank.  Did Nintendo come up with the creative idea for it?  Did Nintendo fund a good portion of the groundwork for the project?   In most cases, no they didn't.   So while MS / Sony are trying to replicate the Wii's success or steal some of it's thunder,   even Nintendo is guilty of copying in this regard. 

The Idea of motion controls have been around since the 1980's.

It's not just the idea for it. It's the idea for interface, idea for everything revolving around it.  Sony did not come up with all of these either.  Neither did Nintendo.  That's the whole point.

On a simplistic sense, Sony came up with the technology for the Wand first which Nintendo copied.  Nintendo came up with the risky idea of trying it as a main form of control for their system which Sony is now copying by providing an option to use motion controls.

 

People making a big issue out of this are Nintendo fanboys or people trying to create drama/issues where there is none.  This type of thing happens constantly in this industry.

Did anyone else bundle it succesfully like Nintendo has done?

 

No one has been more succesfull than Nintendo with the Wii.

 

If the Wii had never launched then PS mote nor Natal would be coming out.