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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - 5th year of Xbox 360 : The Unreal Engine Effect.

JaggedSac on 26 February 2010
selnor said:
JaggedSac said:
Where did you read that Halo:Reach was using 4xAA, I have not heard that.

Secondly, Rare's engine that they created for Viva Pinata and used in BK:N&B is pretty darn good as well. Uses tessellation.

Based on the trailer that was ingame it's confirmed 4xMSAA. When asked, Bungie replied " Thanks to EDRam ". Also tessellation is impressive, but MSAA is astonishing to see 4xMSAA on consoles.KZ2 for instance uses 2xQSAA. QSAA has less than half the performance hit of MSAA but as a downfall blurrs textures alot. Which is why although MSAA is harder for a system to handle it's always the best option to go with if your PC or cnsole can handle it. Uncharted 2 is the only PS3 game to use MSAA. It uses 2xMSAA but not for shadows or effects.

Can you link me to the Bungie comment?  Thanks.



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BW_JP on 26 February 2010
selnor said:
libellule said:
I m not sure those will beat the kings that Gears1/2 or Uncharted2 are

It is not a question about PS3 or 360, it is just that Halo Reach is focusing on upgrading from Halo3 gfx using a new engine able to run a lot of item on screen. I doubt it will become a graphical king contender.
Halo Reach could still be the prettiest Halo ever made and maybe the best one too.

Same goes for Alan Wake : a 4 (?) years game started for PC then going 360 exclusive is not gonna define the new graphical king.
Alan Wake may still be the GOTY 2010 with an insane atmosphere and story and particularly pretty lighting effect.

Neverthless, you are right on the "no specific engine for the 360" ... that is true.


Alan Wake started dev on 360 form day 1, just so you know. Also, I never referred to graphics as such. But technical capabilities. Graphics are 20 % of providing good tech. I was more referring to an engine as a whole. having 4xMSAA on a console game is astonishing. first time ever. And at no cost to the resources. Simly play Crysis on an uber PC and see the FPS difference between changing MSAA up and down to see the performance hit.

Both Alan Wake and Halo Reach as Engines are truly ahead of UE3 by miles and miles.

really?

Alan wake was finished 4 years ago for PC.

 

Also, none of the games announced for 360 this year can hold a flame to uncharted 2 or killzone 2. Now that god of war 3 makes those 2 games look last generation, you can guess what it does to 360 exclusives.

 

 



BW_JP on 26 February 2010

Also, the pS3 is capable of Anti-Aliasing far far far beyond what the 360 is capable by using the SPUS to perform FSAA filters. GoW3 uses this.



Jereel Hunter on 26 February 2010
BW_JP said:
selnor said:
libellule said:
I m not sure those will beat the kings that Gears1/2 or Uncharted2 are

It is not a question about PS3 or 360, it is just that Halo Reach is focusing on upgrading from Halo3 gfx using a new engine able to run a lot of item on screen. I doubt it will become a graphical king contender.
Halo Reach could still be the prettiest Halo ever made and maybe the best one too.

Same goes for Alan Wake : a 4 (?) years game started for PC then going 360 exclusive is not gonna define the new graphical king.
Alan Wake may still be the GOTY 2010 with an insane atmosphere and story and particularly pretty lighting effect.

Neverthless, you are right on the "no specific engine for the 360" ... that is true.


Alan Wake started dev on 360 form day 1, just so you know. Also, I never referred to graphics as such. But technical capabilities. Graphics are 20 % of providing good tech. I was more referring to an engine as a whole. having 4xMSAA on a console game is astonishing. first time ever. And at no cost to the resources. Simly play Crysis on an uber PC and see the FPS difference between changing MSAA up and down to see the performance hit.

Both Alan Wake and Halo Reach as Engines are truly ahead of UE3 by miles and miles.

really?

Alan wake was finished 4 years ago for PC.

Also, none of the games announced for 360 this year can hold a flame to uncharted 2 or killzone 2. Now that god of war 3 makes those 2 games look last generation, you can guess what it does to 360 exclusives.

 

Between this post, and your next one, I see you like to just make things up.



selnor on 26 February 2010
BW_JP said:
selnor said:
libellule said:
I m not sure those will beat the kings that Gears1/2 or Uncharted2 are

It is not a question about PS3 or 360, it is just that Halo Reach is focusing on upgrading from Halo3 gfx using a new engine able to run a lot of item on screen. I doubt it will become a graphical king contender.
Halo Reach could still be the prettiest Halo ever made and maybe the best one too.

Same goes for Alan Wake : a 4 (?) years game started for PC then going 360 exclusive is not gonna define the new graphical king.
Alan Wake may still be the GOTY 2010 with an insane atmosphere and story and particularly pretty lighting effect.

Neverthless, you are right on the "no specific engine for the 360" ... that is true.


Alan Wake started dev on 360 form day 1, just so you know. Also, I never referred to graphics as such. But technical capabilities. Graphics are 20 % of providing good tech. I was more referring to an engine as a whole. having 4xMSAA on a console game is astonishing. first time ever. And at no cost to the resources. Simly play Crysis on an uber PC and see the FPS difference between changing MSAA up and down to see the performance hit.

Both Alan Wake and Halo Reach as Engines are truly ahead of UE3 by miles and miles.

really?

Alan wake was finished 4 years ago for PC.

 

Also, none of the games announced for 360 this year can hold a flame to uncharted 2 or killzone 2. Now that god of war 3 makes those 2 games look last generation, you can guess what it does to 360 exclusives.

 

 

Your talking from purely a visual asspect. That does not in anyway show the power or capabilities of a system. KZ2 used 2xQSAA for example. Which is why alot of people will say about poor textures in it compared to Uncharted 2. If for instance KZ2 used 4xMSAA its likely the framerate would be unplayable. There is a huge performace effect from using QSAA to MSAA. And even more so when only 2xQSAA is used as opposed to 4xMSAA.



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joeorc on 26 February 2010
dirkd2323 said:
I don't believe it, Cliff B is just one to say its about maxed out, In 5 years they would of made a engine to look better, Mass Effect 2 looked good but still not a top contender among the 2 HD consoles. People need to face it, The 360 is a great gaming system, but its not going to pull off PS3 top notch graphics, it just wont, it does not have the technology in many ways, Thats not taking anything away, Mass Effect 2 is on 360 and its probably my favorite game all time, Graphics were good enough. Thats were the 360 stands.

umm, yes it wii, it's all subjective but when you have these top set boxes with 3 or more core's all each core running a 3.2 GHz , not much more need's to be said, since last generation machines' were leass than 800 MHz and that was a single core while the PS2 had multi-ple core design it was by no mean's nearly as advanced as what is in the Multi-core machine as is the PS3 or the xbox360.



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

selnor on 26 February 2010
BW_JP said:

Also, the pS3 is capable of Anti-Aliasing far far far beyond what the 360 is capable by using the SPUS to perform FSAA filters. GoW3 uses this.


Do you know what AA is and how it works?

FSAA stands for Full Screen Anti Aliasing. MSAA ( Multi Sampling Anti Aliasing ) and QSAA ( Quincunx Sampling Anti Aliasing ) are forms of Full Screen Anti Aliasing.

Also you miss the point of the op. Any form of AA takes away resources from either the CPU or GPU as well as memory. The 360 has a dedicated chip that allows 4xMSAA on that chip alone. Freeing up the entire system for everything else.



BW_JP on 26 February 2010
selnor said:
BW_JP said:
selnor said:
libellule said:
I m not sure those will beat the kings that Gears1/2 or Uncharted2 are

It is not a question about PS3 or 360, it is just that Halo Reach is focusing on upgrading from Halo3 gfx using a new engine able to run a lot of item on screen. I doubt it will become a graphical king contender.
Halo Reach could still be the prettiest Halo ever made and maybe the best one too.

Same goes for Alan Wake : a 4 (?) years game started for PC then going 360 exclusive is not gonna define the new graphical king.
Alan Wake may still be the GOTY 2010 with an insane atmosphere and story and particularly pretty lighting effect.

Neverthless, you are right on the "no specific engine for the 360" ... that is true.


Alan Wake started dev on 360 form day 1, just so you know. Also, I never referred to graphics as such. But technical capabilities. Graphics are 20 % of providing good tech. I was more referring to an engine as a whole. having 4xMSAA on a console game is astonishing. first time ever. And at no cost to the resources. Simly play Crysis on an uber PC and see the FPS difference between changing MSAA up and down to see the performance hit.

Both Alan Wake and Halo Reach as Engines are truly ahead of UE3 by miles and miles.

really?

Alan wake was finished 4 years ago for PC.

 

Also, none of the games announced for 360 this year can hold a flame to uncharted 2 or killzone 2. Now that god of war 3 makes those 2 games look last generation, you can guess what it does to 360 exclusives.

 

 

Your talking from purely a visual asspect. That does not in anyway show the power or capabilities of a system. KZ2 used 2xQSAA for example. Which is why alot of people will say about poor textures in it compared to Uncharted 2. If for instance KZ2 used 4xMSAA its likely the framerate would be unplayable. There is a huge performace effect from using QSAA to MSAA. And even more so when only 2xQSAA is used as opposed to 4xMSAA.

No. God of war 3 uses a proprietary anti-aliasing algorithm that is _almost_ as good as 64xMLAA, I'm not sure what that is in MSAA, but its higher than 16x.

 



BW_JP on 26 February 2010
Jereel Hunter said:
BW_JP said:
selnor said:
libellule said:
I m not sure those will beat the kings that Gears1/2 or Uncharted2 are

It is not a question about PS3 or 360, it is just that Halo Reach is focusing on upgrading from Halo3 gfx using a new engine able to run a lot of item on screen. I doubt it will become a graphical king contender.
Halo Reach could still be the prettiest Halo ever made and maybe the best one too.

Same goes for Alan Wake : a 4 (?) years game started for PC then going 360 exclusive is not gonna define the new graphical king.
Alan Wake may still be the GOTY 2010 with an insane atmosphere and story and particularly pretty lighting effect.

Neverthless, you are right on the "no specific engine for the 360" ... that is true.


Alan Wake started dev on 360 form day 1, just so you know. Also, I never referred to graphics as such. But technical capabilities. Graphics are 20 % of providing good tech. I was more referring to an engine as a whole. having 4xMSAA on a console game is astonishing. first time ever. And at no cost to the resources. Simly play Crysis on an uber PC and see the FPS difference between changing MSAA up and down to see the performance hit.

Both Alan Wake and Halo Reach as Engines are truly ahead of UE3 by miles and miles.

really?

Alan wake was finished 4 years ago for PC.

Also, none of the games announced for 360 this year can hold a flame to uncharted 2 or killzone 2. Now that god of war 3 makes those 2 games look last generation, you can guess what it does to 360 exclusives.

 

Between this post, and your next one, I see you like to just make things up.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saqTUxdLdS0       

alan wake, 4 years ago, better graphics than it has now, also open world and not hallway corridor shooter like it is now.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-saboteur-aa-blog-entry



BW_JP on 26 February 2010
selnor said:
BW_JP said:

Also, the pS3 is capable of Anti-Aliasing far far far beyond what the 360 is capable by using the SPUS to perform FSAA filters. GoW3 uses this.


Do you know what AA is and how it works?

FSAA stands for Full Screen Anti Aliasing. MSAA ( Multi Sampling Anti Aliasing ) and QSAA ( Quincunx Sampling Anti Aliasing ) are forms of Full Screen Anti Aliasing.

Also you miss the point of the op. Any form of AA takes away resources from either the CPU or GPU as well as memory. The 360 has a dedicated chip that allows 4xMSAA on that chip alone. Freeing up the entire system for everything else.

For a living I develop tools engines for game development studios. I work for a third party company and do not work specifically on individual titles, but Anti-Aliasing is not strictly the names you listed. AA can be done in an infinite # of ways.

The only reason 360 games usually have more _consistant_ AA is because it is very easy to apply the standard 4xMSAA the graphics card can supply. However, you are not limited to that.

With games like God of war 3, sony santa monica is NOT using the graphics card to process anti-aliasing. They are using the cell.