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IvorEvilen on 24 November 2021
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iron_megalith said:
IvorEvilen said:

Even looking at the ok symbol through the kindest lens (as simply a meme), it was a meme that was made to make people of color and their allies upset and uncomfortable in a space.  Would that not make anyone that participated in the trolling, either online or in public, participants of hate?  You are intentionally trying to make people feel uncomfortable and unwelcome for the lols.  Sounds like a really shitty thing to do.

I was fully aware of the 4chan origins, and I still use the ok gesture, but context is critical.  White supremacists started using the ok gesture in their own circles, because they would just claim they were "trolling" too.  Ever hear of Poe's law?

Besides, it's 4chan.  The cesspool of the internet.  Nothing is "just a meme" there.

thismeintiel said:

Tell me you're easily duped without telling me you're easily duped. 

I love what fools the Left and media has made themselves out to be.  A massive troll job by 4chan, who bet they could get the Left to believe that anything was racist, including the internationally known OK hand sign, and won that bet just because it was something Trump does when he talks.  Talk about TDS.  The best part?  Instead of acknowledging they got had, they kept going along with it.  Now, EVERYONE is a White Supremacist.  Oh God, it's so fucking good. 

I guess Biden is a massive White Supremacist, too.

Dude, context is critical.  Are you trying to tell me this level of trolling has no racial undertones whatsoever?!  I still use the okay symbol too, but I have enough brain cells to tell when someone is intentionally being an asshole.

My friends and I were really pissed off at the ADL for classifying the okay symbol as a hate symbol back in 2019, and we continued to use it defiantly, because we were not going to let it be co-opted.  So, no, we were not going to let the racists take something from us.  If you really think mocking and mentally distressing people over their desire to not offend other people is HILARIOUS, then there is something seriously wrong with you.

I didn't mention anything in my post about it being right or wrong. If anything, I'm just pointing out how dumb it is to fall for it. Just like you mentioned, the government took it seriously and added it as a symbol of hate which is ridiculous. They added a fucking OK symbol that is widely used by everyone as a hate symbol just so ADL can probably claim they're actually doing something and not being a complete waste of money. And I guess also to make some boogeyman real. Let that sink into your head how dumb that is.

You can assume that they were being racist on that pic but you have nothing to support it. Just so you know, he willingly surrendered his phone and they have not found anything to suggest any evidences that can tie the incident to any racial motives. Even his Facebook account was searched and was found to be clear. Just take the L dude. You fell for a fucking 4chan meme.

Apologies, I missed that "You" when I re-wrote the hypothetical to be in the third person instead of the second person.  It should read "They".

I think we fundamentally disagree with the notion that "it was only a meme".  Plausible deniability is the shield of a racist.  It is how they recruit.  As someone else pointed out, the ADL has no association with the government.  They also have their own history of controversies, but I am not going to fault them for raising awareness about potential or perceived messages of hate.  Although, as I stated previously, I was critical of the response to blanketly associate the okay symbol as hate speech.

We do know that Rittenhouse did meet with "Proud Boys".  Although some people were saying they were not Proud Boys, but rather white nationalists.  To be fair, Proud Boys are pretty much synonymous with white nationalism and supremacy, even if their official stance is against that.  It's the whole plausible deniability thing again.  Proud Boys as an organization is not officially racist, even if most of its members are.  Kyle is now coming out saying (after the trial?) that this was all a setup by his old attorney, who was fired over the incident.  So I can guess you just have to choose who you believe.

I have never seen anything related to him surrendering his phone (let alone willingly).  If police had search warrants, it is not like he would have had much choice in that decision.  It is important to note that evidence that may have indicated Kyle Rittenhouse as racially motivated (which was not really relevant) or desiring to shoot people (which seemed more relevant) were not allowed to be presented in the trial.  For example, footage of him saying the following in regard to a theft: "Bro, I wish I had my fucking AR. I'd start shooting rounds at them."  So there may have very well been questionable content they found on his phone/facebook that we will never know about, because it would not have been legally admissible evidence.  But that last detail is PURELY speculation on my part, and I will not let it color my opinion on the situation.

... we have gotten far off topic.  I do not even think Kyle is overtly racist, so I apologize if that was the conclusion you drew from my previous posts.  I simply was stating WHY this was a racially charged trial.  The photo with the Proud Boys/White Nationalists, where he made the okay sign, only served to elevate the racial undertones of the trial.

Edit:  Sorry, I should have re-read the second to last paragraph.  Cleaned it up a bit.