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Moren on 22 May 2020
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sundin13 said:
uran10 said:

Caging children - both check

Bombing foreign countries - both check

Doing the bidding of corporate america while acting like you don't - both check

Unless you mean one has a D and one has an R cause at one point Trump had a D next to his name as well. In terms of how they govern there really isn't that much of a difference I have a wonderful thread on the obama years:

I'm sorry if you think Obama is some saint and Trump is just some devil, but they share a lot in common in the way they govern the country, the big difference being Obama was charismatic and able to hide his evil behind flowery language while trump is trump. Please take some time to study up on the Obama years from that thread, then compare it to Trump, especially the actions taken.

Kind of bizarre to see you saying "I think that's an over simplification of it especially since that doesn't encompass a lot of the nuance in it" and then immediately reducing complicated issues to binaries. Don't reduce complicated issues to binaries. That is pretty much never a good plan.

Like, on that first point, there is a world of difference between Obama's immigration policy (and Biden's proposed immigration policy) and Trump's immigration policy. I don't agree with a lot of what Obama did on immigration, but it wasn't the same as Trump's policies. The family separation policy under Trump was a blanket rule to prosecute parents and separate them from their children. This policy did not exist under Obama. While separations did at times occur, according to a Department of Health and Human Services’ inspector general report “historically” such family “separations were rare and occurred because of circumstances such as a parent’s medical emergency or a determination that the parent was a threat to the child’s safety.”

Immigration also extends far beyond this one point. There is no question that Obama and Biden were better, and would continue to be better for those who support a Democratic perspective on immigration. It is absolutely ludicrous to imply otherwise.

Yes. I'd like to add to this:

While Obama increased the refugee cap every year up to 110K in 2016, Trump slashed the refugee cap to 18K. Trump also banned Syrian refugees from entering the country at all.

Trump is working hard to get rid of the DACA benefits. He was going to get 25 billion for his wall on the condition of DACA support and he refused to accept it.

Trump is also trying to punish low income immigrants. The "Public Charge" rule he has started to enforce would deny green cards to poor immigrants using any assistance program. Some immigrants with children enrolled in special education programs withdrew them from school and refugees and asylum seekers dropped out of food assistance programs to avoid future issues.

For Green Cards - Trump purposely changed the rules for work-based and family-based green to dramatically increase wait times. He added unnecessary in-person interviews and shifted USCIS resources to increased vetting. The result is a long backlog of people waiting for green cards that did not exist under Obama.

Just last month he stopped the issuance of new green cards with the excuse of Coronavirus.

Trump alongside Republicans also tried to stop high-skilled migration. Cotton-Perdue-Miller worked on a bill to cut highly skilled immigration in half when they controlled both chambers of congress.

So Trump has worked to torment undocumented law-abiding immigrants, highly educated immigrants, low-income immigrants, family-based immigrants, and refugees.

So no, Trump and Obama are not same.

Last edited by Moren - on 22 May 2020