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JWeinCom on 24 March 2020
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EricHiggin said:
JWeinCom said:

Honestly, the positives don't matter, if you believe god is omnipotent.  

If we have a limited person, then we credit them for effort.  We recognize that even with the best of intentions and the most earnest efforts, people can not make things perfect.  If a doctor has 100 cancer patients, treats all 100 to the best of his ability, and but loses 5 patients, we would probably find him worthy of praise.  But suppose there were a doctor who could, completely effortlessly, cure cancer, who had 100 patients, and only cured 95.  He could cure the remaining 5 just as effortlessly, and there is absolutely no reason not to.  What would you think of that doctor?

Obviously, that doctor is a metaphor for god, if you believe the bible.  He can eliminate all suffering that is not the result of free will.  He chooses not to. God could have just as easily created a world without microscopic organisms that can infect and kill us.  He chose instead to create one with it.  He could have just as easily created a world where children don't get cancer.  He instead chose to create a world where they do.  He could have just as easily created a world where the elderly don't lose control of their bowels.  Instead he created a world where they do. 

This isn't really anything new, it's an argument that dates back (allegedly) to Epicurus (slightly modified).  If God is capable of preventing any suffering not caused by exercise of free will, but he chooses not to, then he is malicious and unworthy of worship.  Of course, the far more likely scenario is that there simply is no god and that since the world is not created for the benefit of humans, there is no reason to expect that it would be perfectly suited to us.  

From the human perspective it's hard not to see the logic behind this. Religion itself isn't 100% logic though. That's why faith is used.

I can't help but look at a similar non God scenario. If the amazing doctor who tried to save as many as possible, but lost a couple, had the ability to work more, but chose not to, are they still worthy of praise? I'd have to say no based on this. How could you allow more people to die when you could have possibly saved them by working more? Free will and choice, that's why. Is working more, as long as you're capable and not compromised a bad thing? Is the doctor actually a terrible horrible careless being?

Why doesn't everyone work to their absolute useful limit? Why don't more people step up and do something more beneficial to the human race? Some could, maybe many, yet don't. It's their choice, and nobody forces them to in a free society, because that would be wrong, apparently...Where was God?

I think too many read/hear about GOD and get sucked into the marketing, because it's good. Others see an old fat rich CEO that's just after your money. That's not to say the product isn't still great, but don't believe it's going to completely change your life and free you from negativity entirely.

Faith is not a path we use to get tot he truth in any other area of life.  There is no reason to ignore the methods we use to come to sound conclusions in other areas of life when it comes to religion.  

As for the doctor, he is subject to human limitations.  He has a right to and a need for personal satisfaction outside his work, he has to deal with physical and mental exhaustion, he has responsibilities outside work, etc.  Knowing what we do about humans, it would be unreasonable to expect him to work to his absolute maximum capacity.

God, assuming the typical definition, on the other hand is not subject to any such limitations, and being omnipotent, can cure all of the patients with no ill effects to himself, and can do so with 100% reliability.  

Simply put, if you could snap your finger and eliminate all childhood cancer, would you?  I'm assuming yes.  So, is god incapable of eliminating all childhood cancer, or is he capable of doing so, but chooses not to?  Those are the only possibilities.  

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 24 March 2020