Forums - Microsoft Discussion - MS: 1st party Xbox games will be cross-gen for "next year, two years"

sales2099 said:
goopy20 said:

Weaker specs compared to what's in the Series X and ps5 because only 1% of the pc gamers currently have that kind of hardware. I'm putting so much emphasis on GP and Xcloud because it's become MS's main focus and the dna of their next gen strategy. It's why they are practically giving away their AAA exclusives for free by launching them on GP from day one.

PSNow is different in that it was meant for people who migrated to ps4 but still wanted to play Sony's library of last gen games. They also have some ps4 titles exclusives on there but it's not like they will be launching all of their big games on it from day one. And they're definitely not going to make their ps5 exclusives cross gen for 2 years just so ps4 players can play them too, practically for free. That's the last thing they want as they're focus will be on getting people to actually buy a next gen console.

I don’t mean to clog the posts here (trying hard to space them out and let others post) but just had to throw this in here.

- Ever thought that MS knows they can’t compete traditionally with Sony so they are thinking outside the box? The only reason we get day 1 first party games is to give a massive perception of quality over PS Now. It’s meant to create a vast difference between brands that sets Xbox apart. This is part of the “bold” strategy MS is doing. 

Not like they are neglecting consoles as Series X is taking the spotlight lately as I’m sure you are aware 

That sounds great, except I don't think many people would buy a ps5 just because it has PsNow. What sets console brands apart is the quality of their exclusive games, not services like GP, Psnow or whatever. 

Last edited by goopy20 - on 28 February 2020

goopy20 said:
sales2099 said:

I don’t mean to clog the posts here (trying hard to space them out and let others post) but just had to throw this in here.

- Ever thought that MS knows they can’t compete traditionally with Sony so they are thinking outside the box? The only reason we get day 1 first party games is to give a massive perception of quality over PS Now. It’s meant to create a vast difference between brands that sets Xbox apart. This is part of the “bold” strategy MS is doing. 

Not like they are neglecting consoles as Series X is taking the spotlight lately as I’m sure you are aware 

That sounds great, except not many ps4 users care about PSnow, nor are Sony really promoting it like it's a big thing. What sets console brands apart is the quality of their exclusive games.

I get it, you don’t like Xbox’s marketing department. You yourself admitted more gamers use Ps Now compared to GP mostly due to the console sales gap. Just because Sony doesn’t promote it doesn’t mean it isn’t popular, especially since they dropped it to $10 per month I’m sure it’s grown more since. 

I played Gears 5 and Outer Worlds at launch without buying them outright. Those 2 games alone paid for my yearly sub.  Damn straight that’s a brand differentiating factor that Sony does not offer.  

Well we can agree on the quality aspect. Yet you yourself admitted that launch exclusives don’t have to be good games so long as they give a glimpse of the tech. On that we do not agree.  

Edit: Nice edit yourself, but my point stands. Day 1 high profile 1st party exclusives is arguably a system seller in its own right. Since Sony prefers you give them money upfront for theirs. 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 28 February 2020

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sales2099 said:
goopy20 said:

That sounds great, except not many ps4 users care about PSnow, nor are Sony really promoting it like it's a big thing. What sets console brands apart is the quality of their exclusive games.

I get it, you don’t like Xbox’s marketing department. You yourself admitted more gamers use Ps Now compared to GP mostly due to the console sales gap. Just because Sony doesn’t promote it doesn’t mean it isn’t popular, especially since they dropped it to $10 per month I’m sure it’s grown more since. 

I played Gears 5 and Outer Worlds at launch without buying them outright. Those 2 games alone paid for my yearly sub.  Damn straight that’s a brand differentiating factor that Sony does not offer.  

Well we can agree on the quality aspect. Yet you yourself admitted that launch exclusives don’t have to be good games so long as they give a glimpse of the tech. On that we do not agree.  

I know GP is good value man and yes there are some good games on it. But it's mostly older games that are already in the bargain bin, games that bombed but people might still want to play if they're for free and MS's AAA exclusives. Their exclusives are obviously the main reason why people would get a gp subscription.

What I keep trying to say is why MS would put all their exclusives on GP from day one? Doesn't that sound a bit strange from financial point of view to give their flagship games for free and put them on Xone too? How is that helping Series X sales and is it really just to compete with PSnow, even though hardly anyone cares about it and Sony didn't promote it all? 



goopy20 said:
CGI-Quality said:

1% of how many people? Can’t just throw out numbers without perspective. On top of that, you can’t just use Steam as a measure when many PC gamers don’t have their hardware tracked there.

Well I don't have the exact numbers but from I know Steam has around 100m users, so that at least gives a good estimate. If I look at the Steam hardware survey and only looking at the gpu's, around 1% of steam users have a gpu that's on par with what's in the Series X. So that would be around 1 million gamers. That's why I think MS isn;t willing to put all their exclusives on GP and optimize them for those kind of specs because they want everybody to be able to play their games. Obviously those numbers will shift when Nvidia and AMD release their new gpu's and that kind of performance becomes a lot mainstream among average pc gamers. But I'm guessing that will take some time. 

Again, it doesn’t matter what you get from Steam, it leaves out a massive chunk of PC users. It’s a fraction and not something you can get a definitive answer on. Not saying that you can’t use it for anything, but there are plenty of PCs out there not tracked by them.



                                                                                                             

goopy20 said:
sales2099 said:

I get it, you don’t like Xbox’s marketing department. You yourself admitted more gamers use Ps Now compared to GP mostly due to the console sales gap. Just because Sony doesn’t promote it doesn’t mean it isn’t popular, especially since they dropped it to $10 per month I’m sure it’s grown more since. 

I played Gears 5 and Outer Worlds at launch without buying them outright. Those 2 games alone paid for my yearly sub.  Damn straight that’s a brand differentiating factor that Sony does not offer.  

Well we can agree on the quality aspect. Yet you yourself admitted that launch exclusives don’t have to be good games so long as they give a glimpse of the tech. On that we do not agree.  

I know GP is good value man and yes there are some good games on it. But it's mostly older games that are already in the bargain bin, games that bombed but people might still want to play if they're for free and MS's AAA exclusives. Their exclusives are obviously the main reason why people would get a gp subscription.

What I keep trying to say is why MS would put all their exclusives on GP from day one? Doesn't that sound a bit strange from financial point of view to give their flagship games for free and put them on Xone too? How is that helping Series X sales and is it really just to compete with PSnow, even though hardly anyone cares about it and Sony didn't promote it all? 

Goopy you can’t keep posting like you never learned anything, myself and several others proved to you that the titles on the service are a combination of high profile, quality indie titles, and fairly recent. 

I told you why. It’s them being bold, thinking outside the box. Giving people a low barrier entry reason to come into the Xbox family. Day 1 access to exclusives big and small is a huge draw. This will be apparent once the 14 studios really start cranking out the games. Bleeding Edge and Ori 2 this month alone. 

Did....did you not just read that PSNow subscribers outnumber GP subscribers? You told me this yourself. Just because Sony doesn’t report it doesn’t mean it’s not popular.

It helps Series X because combined with “Smart Delivery” you get the best console and then get the games day 1 and overall save a ton of money compared to buying outright. 

Just coming into the Xbox brand is the victory, do you not see that? You yourself are an example with wanting to play Halo Infinite. Because once your in, you’ll likely spend more money elsewhere. 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 28 February 2020

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goopy20 said:

Well I don't have the exact numbers but from I know Steam has around 100m users, so that at least gives a good estimate. If I look at the Steam hardware survey and only looking at the gpu's, around 1% of steam users have a gpu that's on par with what's in the Series X. So that would be around 1 million gamers.

Sorry, but we still don't know how fast the Series X will be. We especially don't know how good the raytracing performance of AMD's new APU is compared to the RTX cards.

The performance of the Series X could be in the RTX 2080S area (then 1% of the Steam users have a GPU that's on par.)

The performance of the Series X could be in the RTX 2080/2070S area (then 3% of the Steam users have a GPU that's on par.)

It could even be that the performance of the Series X is only in the RTX 2070/2060S area when it comes to games with raytracing (then more than 5% of the Steam users have a GPU that's on par.)

So at this point performance comparisons of the new consoles with current PC hardware doesn't make any sense... we need a lot more info for educated guesses!



Pemalite said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I was just pointing out that MS returned to their OG Xbox emulator after about a decade. They made updates, added games to the store, etc. Essentially MS has given me reasons to be optimistic.

I don't actually disagree, there is reason to be optimistic, track record speaks for itself.
But you should have an understanding of how I think by now... That until we actually have evidence or confirmation, then it's all baseless speculation.

Mr Puggsly said:

If X1 games get a resolution boost on Series X it will likely be the same method used now. 360 games on X1X become pixel count x9. So 720p games become 4K (720p x 3 = 2160p). If Series X can't go that far, maybe 720p X1 games could simply become 1440p (720p x 2). That would still be a massive improvement. While 1080p games become 4K.

9x increase of 900P would be 2700P or 4800x2700, which is an insane pixel count.
Or for 1080P titles... It would be 5760x3240.

You need an insane amount of bandwidth and fillrate to maintain playability at those resolutions, not saying it can't be done, just unlikely.

Microsoft will probably take a targeted approach either way, that is... They will pick and choose which games get a resolution bump rather than a blanket increase across all 720P-1080P titles, provided they go down this path in the first place. (Again, baseless irrelevant speculation and all of that jumbo!)

Mr Puggsly said:

There are notable OG Xbox and 360 games that will never come to BC, but that list is probably smaller than you think. Most licensed games are middling, the good ones are few. Hopefully PC emulators support all games down the road, but MS added virtually all the 360 games that were highly requested.

Xbox 360:
* Naruto: Rise of a Ninja.
* Naruto: The Broken Bond.
* Batman: Arkham City.
* Supreme Commander 1.
* Tomb Raider 2013.
* Dishonored.
* Metro 2033.
* Metro: Last Light.
And tons more that could be thrown in for good measure.

~ Only 575 titles out of 2084 Xbox 360 games are backwards compatible. That is only 27.5% of the games library... Unless you are suggesting only 27.5% of the Xbox 360 library was semi-decent and the rest was shovelware?


Original Xbox:
* Jurassic Park: Operation Genesis.
* Halo: Combat Evolved.
* Halo 2.
* Baldurs Gate: Dark Alliance.
* Baldurs Gate: Dark Alliance 2.
* Dead or Alive 3.
* Project Gotham Racing.
* Grand Theft Auto 3.
* Fable: The Lost Chapters.
* Mech Assault.
* Call of Duty 1+2+3.
* Gauntlet: Dark Legacy.
* Gaintlet: Seven Sorrows.
* Brothers in Arms.
* Oddworld: Munch's Odyssee.
* Oddworld: Strangers Wrath.

 ~Only 41 out of 1,000+ (4.1%!!!) titles from the OG Xbox are operational on the Xbox One, there is a shit ton of titles that are needed to be supported, not even kidding.

Just throwing my assumptions out there based on their record. I am not pushing that as news.

Series X pushing 9x pixel count in X1 games is probably too much. Might be possible, 4x seems more likely if at all.

This is the list I came up with of games I would like to see added. https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8945343

I looked at the entire library of OG Xbox and 360 titles when I made that list. The number of games that I feel is notable and worth adding is small compared to the entire catalog of these platforms.

The ideal scenario is add everything. But if that can't happen, notable content is much smaller list.



Recently Completed
Gears 5
for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

goopy20 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Just looking at best selling and most active games suggests this is not accurate.

Also, it's not like we need new specs for developers to create something unique per se. Games like Fortnite and Ark found success doing something unique, not requiring cutting edge specs.

Nobody's saying you need cutting edge hardware to make innovative games. Hell, I think BOTW is one of the best games I played this generation. But you tell me what is the point of having a new console generation? Isn't it because we want developers to create new experiences that take a dramatic leap from what we're seeing now? Games like Fortnite and Apex Legends probably wouldn't exist if we would all still be playing on 360/ps3. 

Of course, Series X will still have next gen games eventually but by fragmenting the Xbox brand over a ton of devices they are making it exactly like pc. So what is the difference between a console and pc, I hear you ask? Consoles are a closed platform where developers can build their games around the specs of a single device. Even unlocking a single cpu core has an impact on what developers can do on a console, like we seen on the Xone when they removed mandatory Kinect support. That;s the whole beauty of consoles. As where on pc, developers have to make their games so they run on a ton of different configurations and make their games so the masses with lower spec'd pc's/ consoles will get the same core gameplay experience. Now, I know how scaling works but if you have a 2080Ti uber pc right now, can you then really play AAA games on it that take a generational leap over what we're seeing now on consoles? You'll get the same core games only at 300fps and 8k resolution and a bumb in graphics settings. Which will only change when the new consoles arrive and we get AAA games pushing that kind of hardware while targeting 30fps/1440p .

People seem to get offended when I talk about GP because they think I'm saying it's for casuals. I never said that, the only thing I said is that it's for gamers who don't have the kind of specs that are in the Series X. If building GP subscribers is MS's main focus next gen, why would they then have games on it that nobody would be able to play? That's why I'm saying, they won't build their games around Series X like specs and truly be able push the tech until hardware like that becomes mainstream on pc. That's why uncle Phil said there are trade offs as they're not going to dictate what developers will support. However, we already know what kind of specs MS themselves are going to support with all 14 of their 1st party studios.

Sony is taking the more traditional approach where they have a single next gen consoles that they can push to its limits from day one. If they will do a good job at that early on, and if their games will be any good, we will just have to wait and see. But from a sales perspective it's gonna be a nightmare for Series X in the first couple of years. People will be rushing to the stores to get their hands on a next gen console. They'll see a $150 Xone running Halo Infnite and there will be a $699 Series X next to it running the same game, just a bit better. On the other side there will be a $399 ps5 running an open world Knack 3 with full blown Raytracing. They will probably say "oh, it's Knack...." but they will still gawk at the graphics and get excited over it. So which console do you think people will buy even if Knack is utter shit and people will still buy the latest cross-gen COD instead?

Next gen launch games don't have to be great as long as they fuel the desire for next gen and a promise of what's to come. if Sony has those games and show glimpses of things like a new sci-fi ip from ND, HZD 2 etc early on, next gen will be over before it even started. 2 Years might not sound long for some people but the ex CEO of EA games already declared Sony the winner in 2015 when the ps4 already build a 40m installbase by the end of that year. https://www.gamespot.com/articles/sony-nailed-it-with-ps4-and-deserves-victory-over-/1100-6427166/

Games like Fortnite and Apex came years into the 8th gen. Not the window MS promised to support X1. Meanwhile BOTW was designed for specs fairly close to 7th gen.

Fragmenting Xbox over a ton of devices? You mean X1 and Series X? PC will just get whatever the lead console gets. xCloud on the otherhand is just streaming an existing port.

PC games let you adjust graphics and resolution. Therefore they can adjusted to work on PCs of varying specs. I mean Gears 5 at 720p/30 fps/low settings vs 4K/60+ fps/Ultra settings is intended for greatly differing specs. It will be the same next gen but the minimum requirements will go up.

You're grasping at straws with Gamepass. You're using the lack of 9th gen 1st party exclusives to essentially say the service isn't for Series X users. It's a weak argument and ignores these cross gen games can greatly utilize the improved specs for better experiences. Again, cross gen games dominated the 8th gen exclusives early on because people wanted to play those cross gen games at their highest fidelity.

Sony didn't push PS1, PS2, PS3 or PS4 to its limits on day one. If Sony did that with PS5, that would be non traditional. Are you suggesting prettier games is pushing a console to its limits? Because I guarantee Series X will do that.

Before we entertain what Sony is doing for PS5 at launch, maybe we should wait for E3.



Recently Completed
Gears 5
for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

goopy20 said:
LudicrousSpeed said:
How is GamePass for gamers with weaker specs 😆😆😆

You do realize they can offer a wide range of titles across all the Xbox platforms? GamePass on PC has tons of different titles requiring a range of specs.

When PS4 launched Sony still offered PS3 games in PS+ for like five years. Yet they also had PS4 exclusives on the service and made PS4 retail exclusives. You’re still putting way too much emphasis on GamePass and xCloud for some bizarre reason.

Weaker specs compared to what's in the Series X and ps5 because only 1% of the pc gamers currently have that kind of hardware. I'm putting so much emphasis on GP and Xcloud because it's become MS's main focus and the dna of their next gen strategy. It's why they are practically giving away their AAA exclusives for free by launching them on GP from day one.

PSNow is different in that it was meant for people who migrated to ps4 but still wanted to play Sony's library of last gen games. They also have some ps4 titles exclusives on there but it's not like they will be launching all of their big games on it from day one. And they're definitely not going to make their ps5 exclusives cross gen for 2 years just so ps4 players can play them too, practically for free. That's the last thing they want as they're focus will be on getting people to actually buy a next gen console.

You know the PS5 specs? Can you share? Why are they relevant anyway? Why can MS not just offer games across all hardware tiers? How is it any different than how Netflix has HD, 4K, and HDR content? MS can offer games on GamePass that are current gen for Xbone owners. And they can offer games that are next gen for XSX owners. Again this is how it works on PC GamePass.

And I said PS+, not Now. PS+ offered PS3, Vita, VR, and PS4 games. Software for any hardware users had. No reason GamePass won’t as well. And what MS’s “focus” you’re referring to is entirely your opinion and you’ve shown that opinion is supported by zero evidence or logic.



goopy20 said:

I know GP is good value man and yes there are some good games on it. But it's mostly older games that are already in the bargain bin, games that bombed but people might still want to play if they're for free and MS's AAA exclusives. Their exclusives are obviously the main reason why people would get a gp subscription.

What I keep trying to say is why MS would put all their exclusives on GP from day one? Doesn't that sound a bit strange from financial point of view to give their flagship games for free and put them on Xone too? How is that helping Series X sales and is it really just to compete with PSnow, even though hardly anyone cares about it and Sony didn't promote it all? 

The primary reason people use Gamepass is likely to play 1st party games at launch. However there are lots of reasons to stick around. There are many smaller or indie games that also launch on Gamepass. There is notable content that comes to like Metro Exodus, DMC5, Rage 2, Bloodstained, Kingdom Hearts 3, Wolfenstein: Youngblood, etc. Then you have many older but notable games that vary in age and generation. MS seems to even be using Gamepass to encourage ports of games like Kingdom Hearts and Yakuza. Being on Gamepass means all this content will be more active as well. All of that combined is a couple hundred games and a great incentive to stay on the service.

From a financial point of view, Gamepass apparently has millions of subscribers and that likely generates a lot of revenue. Not everybody is playing games free or whatever, people don't stay subscribed for $1 a month. There are also people who don't want subscription services and keep buying games. Forza Horizon 4 showed solid sales on VGChartz even while launching on Gamepass. Games sell well even while launching on Gamepass but people ignore that.

If you go in the Playstation Store, PS Now is not hidden. You can't miss its existence, they push it pretty good there and show new games regularly added. It's even easier to find without PS TV taking space.

Last edited by Mr Puggsly - on 28 February 2020

Recently Completed
Gears 5
for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)