Forums - Microsoft Discussion - MS: 1st party Xbox games will be cross-gen for "next year, two years"

curl-6 said:

This has me wondering whether Hellblade 2 will come out on Xbox One, or whether that's coming out later down the line once the cross-gen phase ends.

Could honestly go either way. A recent job posting wanted a director to helm the game from start to finish, and listed the game as AAA. This implies a 3 year development period. 

It could very well be the first exclusive only on next gen hardware. Or it could be like Xbox X with a Switch version of Hellblade (an example of scaling down). Either option has its merits. 



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Pemalite said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part but I wouldn't be surprised if more OG Xbox amd 360 games get added in the future.

I am hoping so. At the moment the Xbox 360 is a better place to play OG Xbox games than the Xbox One X.

Mr Puggsly said:

As you said they monotize old games so its not just fan service. Also, the OG Xbox content added to X1 was the same emulator they did for 360. It seemingly just works better via brute force. So clearly the BC team could come back and add 6th and 7th gen games later.

They likely used the old emulator as a base, but it's been reworked significantly, some bugs from some titles that are emulated on 360 are now gone, visuals have been enhanced and so forth, even frame pacing issues seem to be resolved now. (Which is more than what faster hardware can provide!)

Microsoft did include hardware support for some Xbox 360 texture formats to aid in emulation... So they were planning to go down this route a good year or two before the Xbox One even launched.

Whether the Backwards Compatability Team gets back to work to include more 6th and 7th gen games in the future... Well. That is all hopes and dreams at this stage, we have neither the evidence nor the confirmation that is actually the case, we will just have to wait and see.

Thankfully, we don't have to wait much longer for the Xbox Series X to drop and we get some details on Microsoft's future plans after that.

Mr Puggsly said:

Halo Reach was playable when it launched on BC, it just had bad frame pacing. The emulator improved greatly over time.

That frame pacing made it unplayable.



It makes the controls sluggish and unresponsive, you actually had a competitive edge if you played it on the Xbox 360 at the time.

It's old news though, those issues have long been resolved, which is one of the benefits of a software approach.

Mr Puggsly said:

I suspect the BC additions have stopped primarily to make sure everything is supported. I am thinking work id beimg done to boost resolutions in all 360 content. DF entertained the idea of boosting resolutions in X1 content, which would be huge news, but I would bet on it.

Microsoft stated they stopped adding Backwards Compatible titles to focus on Next-Gen and making sure all software from the Xbox One ecosystem (Including Xbox 360 and OG Xbox games!) will work out of the box.

Increasing resolutions is another approach that can be taking, I wouldn't assume it will happen, but quadrupling the resolution of base Xbox One games would be awesome, there are many titles today which are still stuck in sub 1080P land even on better hardware like the Xbox One as the developers have abandoned all support.
I.E. I would like Dragon Age Inquisition to get a 4k/Enhanced patch, but I would settle for a quadrupling of resolution to 1800P if EA isn't going to pull it's finger out.

Mr Puggsly said:

While BC doesen't support everything on older consoles, adding notable content is most important. There is still many solid OG Xbox and 360 games they could be added without licensing being a problem. I did a pretty thorough list on this very topic.

The issue is... Not all "notable content" will ever be added, it's logistically impossible, the Xbox 360 and Original Xbox has a ton of quality titles that certain publishers/developers no longer hold licenses for anymore.

For example two Xbox 360 exclusives: Naruto: Rise of a Ninja and Naruto: The Broken Bond will never get an Xbox One or Xbox Series X release because Ubisoft no longer retain the Naruto license, which is fine, I kept my Xbox 360 for such instances.

Conversely... Jurassic Park: Operation Genesis was one of my favorite OG Xbox games, which will also never get support on the Xbox One or Xbox Series X, thankfully I kept my Xbox 360 for such instances.

I don't doubt you haven't made a list on this very topic, you are on top of all things Xbox.

I was just pointing out that MS returned to their OG Xbox emulator after about a decade. They made updates, added games to the store, etc. Essentially MS has given me reasons to be optimistic.

If X1 games get a resolution boost on Series X it will likely be the same method used now. 360 games on X1X become pixel count x9. So 720p games become 4K (720p x 3 = 2160p). If Series X can't go that far, maybe 720p X1 games could simply become 1440p (720p x 2). That would still be a massive improvement. While 1080p games become 4K.

There are notable OG Xbox and 360 games that will never come to BC, but that list is probably smaller than you think. Most licensed games are middling, the good ones are few. Hopefully PC emulators support all games down the road, but MS added virtually all the 360 games that were highly requested.



Recently Completed
Gears 5
for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Mr Puggsly said:

I was just pointing out that MS returned to their OG Xbox emulator after about a decade. They made updates, added games to the store, etc. Essentially MS has given me reasons to be optimistic.

I don't actually disagree, there is reason to be optimistic, track record speaks for itself.
But you should have an understanding of how I think by now... That until we actually have evidence or confirmation, then it's all baseless speculation.

Mr Puggsly said:

If X1 games get a resolution boost on Series X it will likely be the same method used now. 360 games on X1X become pixel count x9. So 720p games become 4K (720p x 3 = 2160p). If Series X can't go that far, maybe 720p X1 games could simply become 1440p (720p x 2). That would still be a massive improvement. While 1080p games become 4K.

9x increase of 900P would be 2700P or 4800x2700, which is an insane pixel count.
Or for 1080P titles... It would be 5760x3240.

You need an insane amount of bandwidth and fillrate to maintain playability at those resolutions, not saying it can't be done, just unlikely.

Microsoft will probably take a targeted approach either way, that is... They will pick and choose which games get a resolution bump rather than a blanket increase across all 720P-1080P titles, provided they go down this path in the first place. (Again, baseless irrelevant speculation and all of that jumbo!)

Mr Puggsly said:

There are notable OG Xbox and 360 games that will never come to BC, but that list is probably smaller than you think. Most licensed games are middling, the good ones are few. Hopefully PC emulators support all games down the road, but MS added virtually all the 360 games that were highly requested.

Xbox 360:
* Naruto: Rise of a Ninja.
* Naruto: The Broken Bond.
* Batman: Arkham City.
* Supreme Commander 1.
* Tomb Raider 2013.
* Dishonored.
* Metro 2033.
* Metro: Last Light.
And tons more that could be thrown in for good measure.

~ Only 575 titles out of 2084 Xbox 360 games are backwards compatible. That is only 27.5% of the games library... Unless you are suggesting only 27.5% of the Xbox 360 library was semi-decent and the rest was shovelware?


Original Xbox:
* Jurassic Park: Operation Genesis.
* Halo: Combat Evolved.
* Halo 2.
* Baldurs Gate: Dark Alliance.
* Baldurs Gate: Dark Alliance 2.
* Dead or Alive 3.
* Project Gotham Racing.
* Grand Theft Auto 3.
* Fable: The Lost Chapters.
* Mech Assault.
* Call of Duty 1+2+3.
* Gauntlet: Dark Legacy.
* Gaintlet: Seven Sorrows.
* Brothers in Arms.
* Oddworld: Munch's Odyssee.
* Oddworld: Strangers Wrath.

 ~Only 41 out of 1,000+ (4.1%!!!) titles from the OG Xbox are operational on the Xbox One, there is a shit ton of titles that are needed to be supported, not even kidding.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Mr Puggsly said:
Conina said:

- citations needed

- projecting much?

- source?

- assumptions as facts again?

- all of the above

Just looking at best selling and most active games suggests this is not accurate.

Also, it's not like we need new specs for developers to create something unique per se. Games like Fortnite and Ark found success doing something unique, not requiring cutting edge specs.

Nobody's saying you need cutting edge hardware to make innovative games. Hell, I think BOTW is one of the best games I played this generation. But you tell me what is the point of having a new console generation? Isn't it because we want developers to create new experiences that take a dramatic leap from what we're seeing now? Games like Fortnite and Apex Legends probably wouldn't exist if we would all still be playing on 360/ps3. 

Of course, Series X will still have next gen games eventually but by fragmenting the Xbox brand over a ton of devices they are making it exactly like pc. So what is the difference between a console and pc, I hear you ask? Consoles are a closed platform where developers can build their games around the specs of a single device. Even unlocking a single cpu core has an impact on what developers can do on a console, like we seen on the Xone when they removed mandatory Kinect support. That;s the whole beauty of consoles. As where on pc, developers have to make their games so they run on a ton of different configurations and make their games so the masses with lower spec'd pc's/ consoles will get the same core gameplay experience. Now, I know how scaling works but if you have a 2080Ti uber pc right now, can you then really play AAA games on it that take a generational leap over what we're seeing now on consoles? You'll get the same core games only at 300fps and 8k resolution and a bumb in graphics settings. Which will only change when the new consoles arrive and we get AAA games pushing that kind of hardware while targeting 30fps/1440p .

People seem to get offended when I talk about GP because they think I'm saying it's for casuals. I never said that, the only thing I said is that it's for gamers who don't have the kind of specs that are in the Series X. If building GP subscribers is MS's main focus next gen, why would they then have games on it that nobody would be able to play? That's why I'm saying, they won't build their games around Series X like specs and truly be able push the tech until hardware like that becomes mainstream on pc. That's why uncle Phil said there are trade offs as they're not going to dictate what developers will support. However, we already know what kind of specs MS themselves are going to support with all 14 of their 1st party studios.

Sony is taking the more traditional approach where they have a single next gen consoles that they can push to its limits from day one. If they will do a good job at that early on, and if their games will be any good, we will just have to wait and see. But from a sales perspective it's gonna be a nightmare for Series X in the first couple of years. People will be rushing to the stores to get their hands on a next gen console. They'll see a $150 Xone running Halo Infnite and there will be a $699 Series X next to it running the same game, just a bit better. On the other side there will be a $399 ps5 running an open world Knack 3 with full blown Raytracing. They will probably say "oh, it's Knack...." but they will still gawk at the graphics and get excited over it. So which console do you think people will buy even if Knack is utter shit and people will still buy the latest cross-gen COD instead?

Next gen launch games don't have to be great as long as they fuel the desire for next gen and a promise of what's to come. if Sony has those games and show glimpses of things like a new sci-fi ip from ND, HZD 2 etc early on, next gen will be over before it even started. 2 Years might not sound long for some people but the ex CEO of EA games already declared Sony the winner in 2015 when the ps4 already build a 40m installbase by the end of that year. https://www.gamespot.com/articles/sony-nailed-it-with-ps4-and-deserves-victory-over-/1100-6427166/

Last edited by goopy20 - on 28 February 2020

How is GamePass for gamers with weaker specs 😆😆😆

You do realize they can offer a wide range of titles across all the Xbox platforms? GamePass on PC has tons of different titles requiring a range of specs.

When PS4 launched Sony still offered PS3 games in PS+ for like five years. Yet they also had PS4 exclusives on the service and made PS4 retail exclusives. You’re still putting way too much emphasis on GamePass and xCloud for some bizarre reason.



LudicrousSpeed said:
How is GamePass for gamers with weaker specs 😆😆😆

You do realize they can offer a wide range of titles across all the Xbox platforms? GamePass on PC has tons of different titles requiring a range of specs.

When PS4 launched Sony still offered PS3 games in PS+ for like five years. Yet they also had PS4 exclusives on the service and made PS4 retail exclusives. You’re still putting way too much emphasis on GamePass and xCloud for some bizarre reason.

Weaker specs compared to what's in the Series X and ps5 because only 1% of the pc gamers currently have that kind of hardware. I'm putting so much emphasis on GP and Xcloud because it's become MS's main focus and the dna of their next gen strategy. It's why they are practically giving away their AAA exclusives for free by launching them on GP from day one.

PSNow is different in that it was meant for people who migrated to ps4 but still wanted to play Sony's library of last gen games. They also have some ps4 titles exclusives on there but it's not like they will be launching all of their big games on it from day one. And they're definitely not going to make their ps5 exclusives cross gen for 2 years just so ps4 players can play them too, practically for free. That's the last thing they want as they're focus will be on getting people to actually buy a next gen console.



goopy20 said:
LudicrousSpeed said:
How is GamePass for gamers with weaker specs 😆😆😆

You do realize they can offer a wide range of titles across all the Xbox platforms? GamePass on PC has tons of different titles requiring a range of specs.


Weaker specs compared to what's in the Series X and ps5 because only 1% of the pc gamers currently have that kind of hardware. I'm putting so much emphasis on GP and Xcloud because it's become MS's main focus and the dna of their next gen strategy. It's why they are practically giving away their AAA exclusives for free by launching them on GP from day one.

1% of how many people? Can’t just throw out numbers without perspective. On top of that, you can’t just use Steam as a measure when many PC gamers don’t have their hardware tracked there.



                                                                                                             

goopy20 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Just looking at best selling and most active games suggests this is not accurate.

Also, it's not like we need new specs for developers to create something unique per se. Games like Fortnite and Ark found success doing something unique, not requiring cutting edge specs.

Nobody's saying you need cutting edge hardware to make innovative games. Hell, I think BOTW is one of the best games I played this generation. But you tell me what is the point of having a new console generation? Isn't it because we want developers to create new experiences that take a dramatic leap from what we're seeing now? Games like Fortnite and Apex Legends probably wouldn't exist if we would all still be playing on 360/ps3. 

Of course, Series X will still have next gen games eventually but by fragmenting the Xbox brand over a ton of devices they are making it exactly like pc. So what is the difference between a console and pc, I hear you ask? Consoles are a closed platform where developers can build their games around the specs of a single device. Even unlocking a single cpu core has an impact on what developers can do on a console, like we seen on the Xone when they removed mandatory Kinect support. That;s the whole beauty of consoles. As where on pc, developers have to make their games so they run on a ton of different configurations and make their games so the masses with lower spec'd pc's/ consoles will get the same core gameplay experience. Now, I know how scaling works but if you have a 2080Ti uber pc right now, can you then really play AAA games on it that take a generational leap over what we're seeing now on consoles? You'll get the same core games only at 300fps and 8k resolution and a bumb in graphics settings. Which will only change when the new consoles arrive and we get AAA games pushing that kind of hardware while targeting 30fps/1440p .

People seem to get offended when I talk about GP because they think I'm saying it's for casuals. I never said that, the only thing I said is that it's for gamers who don't have the kind of specs that are in the Series X. If building GP subscribers is MS's main focus next gen, why would they then have games on it that nobody would be able to play? That's why I'm saying, they won't build their games around Series X like specs and truly be able push the tech until hardware like that becomes mainstream on pc. That's why uncle Phil said there are trade offs as they're not going to dictate what developers will support. However, we already know what kind of specs MS themselves are going to support with all 14 of their 1st party studios.

Sony is taking the more traditional approach where they have a single next gen consoles that they can push to its limits from day one. If they will do a good job at that early on, and if their games will be any good, we will just have to wait and see. But from a sales perspective it's gonna be a nightmare for Series X in the first couple of years. People will be rushing to the stores to get their hands on a next gen console. They'll see a $150 Xone running Halo Infnite and there will be a $699 Series X next to it running the same game, just a bit better. On the other side there will be a $399 ps5 running an open world Knack 3 with full blown Raytracing. They will probably say "oh, it's Knack...." but they will still gawk at the graphics and get excited over it. So which console do you think people will buy even if Knack is utter shit and people will still buy the latest cross-gen COD instead?

Next gen launch games don't have to be great as long as they fuel the desire for next gen and a promise of what's to come. if Sony has those games and show glimpses of things like a new sci-fi ip from ND, HZD 2 etc early on, next gen will be over before it even started. 2 Years might not sound long for some people but the ex CEO of EA games already declared Sony the winner in 2015 when the ps4 already build a 40m installbase by the end of that year. https://www.gamespot.com/articles/sony-nailed-it-with-ps4-and-deserves-victory-over-/1100-6427166/

Oh boy...each point will represent every paragraph you wrote.

- 3rd party devs can create what they want off the bat. The vast majority of the gen belongs to Xbox for power. Cross gen games dominated popularity in the beginning of this gen over games like Knack/Killzone/Ryse/Forza 5. 

- “I want my purdy graphix!” is your general point and by making games like PC you feel we won’t get the most of it? Well I’d say that’s gross negative speculation and the games will look gorgeous with all this talk MS is doing about Series X specs. Don’t pretend Sony ever made more then 1 sku...and it’s ironic with PS4 Pro not living up to Sony’s advertising with “fake 4K” games being the end result. 

- You actually did say GP was for casuals when you said “broader audience”. It’s ok we teaching you :) GP also is not for those with weaker specs. It’s for anybody who has any Xbox or PC. It’s for people who are tired of buying their games outright. lol that’s it. MS announced Smart Delievery meaning the version you play corresponds to the hardware you own. XB1, XBX, Series X...get it?

- Historically Sony has an uphill battle with exclusive quality in the first year, and if so you will look silly telling us that those games are overall better then the critically acclaimed Xbox cross gen exclusives. $399 PS5 vs $699 Series X, can’t wait to call you out on that overly optimistic (Sony) and negative (Xbox) assessment. Did you know the report that said PS5 parts cost $450? That’s without packaging and transport and retail store costs. People who want the power investment for the generation will buy SeriesX. You are so laser focused on the first year which is dominated by cross gen games on both sides. 

- “Next gen launch games don't have to be great“ Oh dear, you just admitted to preferring shallow experiences so long as they drive console sales. As a gamer you should care about quality from day 1. We know Sony will sell more consoles. But if my hunch is right that’s gonna be a outdated measurement of victory. Players are where the money is, games are where the money is, NEVER the console. Whether it’s power or price or Pc, MS has a choice. So long as you join the Xbox family, MS achieved their goal. 

PS - You yourself admitted to wanting to play Halo Infinite. Even if it’s through a GP promotion you are investing your time with the Xbox ecosystem. Do you not see the irony? You are an example of MSs strategy working. I mean no offence when I say this. 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 28 February 2020

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goopy20 said:
LudicrousSpeed said:
How is GamePass for gamers with weaker specs 😆😆😆

You do realize they can offer a wide range of titles across all the Xbox platforms? GamePass on PC has tons of different titles requiring a range of specs.

When PS4 launched Sony still offered PS3 games in PS+ for like five years. Yet they also had PS4 exclusives on the service and made PS4 retail exclusives. You’re still putting way too much emphasis on GamePass and xCloud for some bizarre reason.

Weaker specs compared to what's in the Series X and ps5 because only 1% of the pc gamers currently have that kind of hardware. I'm putting so much emphasis on GP and Xcloud because it's become MS's main focus and the dna of their next gen strategy. It's why they are practically giving away their AAA exclusives for free by launching them on GP from day one.

PSNow is different in that it was meant for people who migrated to ps4 but still wanted to play Sony's library of last gen games. They also have some ps4 titles exclusives on there but it's not like they will be launching all of their big games on it from day one. And they're definitely not going to make their ps5 exclusives cross gen for 2 years just so ps4 players can play them too, practically for free. That's the last thing they want as they're focus will be on getting people to actually buy a next gen console.

I don’t mean to clog the posts here (trying hard to space them out and let others post) but just had to throw this in here.

- Ever thought that MS knows they can’t compete traditionally with Sony so they are thinking outside the box? The only reason we get day 1 first party games is to give a massive perception of quality over PS Now. It’s meant to create a vast difference between brands that sets Xbox apart. This is part of the “bold” strategy MS is doing. 

Not like they are neglecting consoles as Series X is taking the spotlight lately as I’m sure you are aware 



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CGI-Quality said:
goopy20 said:

Weaker specs compared to what's in the Series X and ps5 because only 1% of the pc gamers currently have that kind of hardware. I'm putting so much emphasis on GP and Xcloud because it's become MS's main focus and the dna of their next gen strategy. It's why they are practically giving away their AAA exclusives for free by launching them on GP from day one.

1% of how many people? Can’t just throw out numbers without perspective. On top of that, you can’t just use Steam as a measure when many PC gamers don’t have their hardware tracked there.

Well I don't have the exact numbers but from I know Steam has around 100m users, so that at least gives a good estimate. If I look at the Steam hardware survey and only looking at the gpu's, around 1% of steam users have a gpu that's on par with what's in the Series X. So that would be around 1 million gamers. That's why I think MS isn;t willing to put all their exclusives on GP and optimize them for those kind of specs because they want everybody to be able to play their games. Obviously those numbers will shift when Nvidia and AMD release their new gpu's and that kind of performance becomes a lot mainstream among average pc gamers. But I'm guessing that will take some time.