Forums - Politics Discussion - Iranian General Killed by US Attack

Eagle367 said:
NightlyPoe said:

Is that a joke post?

Well your assumptions are that whatever the US does has to be good and whatever Iran does has to be evil. My assumptions are based on the fact that I don't have a bias for any country but looking at their past actions, I have deduced what I wrote.

The US has been at war for most of it's existence and recently has invaded Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, lybia and others without just cause. It has a pro war strategy all the way and they jump into war needlessly.

Iran meanwhile hasn't been in a real war in decades and Iran showed the willingness to want peace rather than war when they made the Iran deal. It's the same Irani admin and they could;be just made nukes instead of agreeing to anything but they didn't. They also shot down a base when no one was in it when they could've easily shot one down at max capacity. This tells me that they wanted to show some sign of strength to their people while avoiding actual war. Everyone thought Iran would respond in a way that would cause war, but it was a masterclass in avoiding conflict.

The US meanwhile killed a top general if a country randomly and without just cause, so it shows that they were looking for war. Also top US officials keep showing an unusual amount of interest in war with Iran. John Bolton was just one of said guys but many still remain in the US government.

Iran has done horrible things to some of it's people and has not been kind to it's minorities. It is not an overall good state, but when comparing records, the US is far more towards the side of wrong than Iran. Not in all cases but in war, needless innocent death and destruction, most certainly. Ultimately, no one is the good guy here but Iran was the one that showed restraint and avoided war, while the US instigated and showed aggression and a willingness for war. I'll be on the side of peace instead of war anyday. 

Still not sure if this is a troll job or not...

Anyone with familiarity with this guy's previous posts want to clue me in?



NightlyPoe said:
Eagle367 said:

Well your assumptions are that whatever the US does has to be good and whatever Iran does has to be evil. My assumptions are based on the fact that I don't have a bias for any country but looking at their past actions, I have deduced what I wrote.

The US has been at war for most of it's existence and recently has invaded Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, lybia and others without just cause. It has a pro war strategy all the way and they jump into war needlessly.

Iran meanwhile hasn't been in a real war in decades and Iran showed the willingness to want peace rather than war when they made the Iran deal. It's the same Irani admin and they could;be just made nukes instead of agreeing to anything but they didn't. They also shot down a base when no one was in it when they could've easily shot one down at max capacity. This tells me that they wanted to show some sign of strength to their people while avoiding actual war. Everyone thought Iran would respond in a way that would cause war, but it was a masterclass in avoiding conflict.

The US meanwhile killed a top general if a country randomly and without just cause, so it shows that they were looking for war. Also top US officials keep showing an unusual amount of interest in war with Iran. John Bolton was just one of said guys but many still remain in the US government.

Iran has done horrible things to some of it's people and has not been kind to it's minorities. It is not an overall good state, but when comparing records, the US is far more towards the side of wrong than Iran. Not in all cases but in war, needless innocent death and destruction, most certainly. Ultimately, no one is the good guy here but Iran was the one that showed restraint and avoided war, while the US instigated and showed aggression and a willingness for war. I'll be on the side of peace instead of war anyday. 

Still not sure if this is a troll job or not...

Anyone with familiarity with this guy's previous posts want to clue me in?

I am dead serious. If you notice my profile, I'm from Pakistan. I've seen first hand the destruction caused by the so called "war on terror" the US started in Afghanistan. My city and my country was affected heavily by it. My own military is at fault as well. For you to just assume anyone who doesn't look at the US like it's some force of good is trolling is really baffling to me. Have you not met anyone from the middle east or south America or Africa that has suffered at the hands of US imperialism and war mongering? If you live under the illusion that the US is trying to do good or maintain peace, let me break that illusion right through. 

The US killed the democratically elected leader of Iran in the 50s and installed the puppet ruler aka shah of iran. The Ayatollah wouldn't exist and Iran would've been fundamentally different had the US not done that. In their petty cold war, the US armed a group of people called the Mujahideen in Afghanistan to fight against the Soviets. Then the US left all that weaponry in Afghanistan and abandoned the Mujahideen. All they knew was war and they became mercenaries. That same group later morphed into Al Qaeda. Usama bin Ladin was an American asset in this operation. The US destabilization of Iraq and their support of Al Nusrah, an affiliate of Al Qaeda in Syria fighting against Assad and the Syrian political leadership 7n general for control of Syria led to the creation of Daesh. 

It all comes back to US actions in the middle east one way or another and if it doesn't, it comes back to British actions. Look at Afghanistan in the 70s or Pakistan in the 70s or Iran in the 50s. 

Also notice who has been fighting and fighting and fighting. The US is a warring nation and always has been. Iran isn't but is sanctioned to hell, called the enemy because Saudi Arabia doesn't like it and Saudi money buys allies in the west, had it's leader assassinated in the 50s. Tell me in what world is Iran the aggressor or instigator. And after all that, Iran is the one still showing restraint. Everyone knows a war in Iran would be disastrous but the war hawks in the US don't care because they can make a lot of profit out of it.  Europe doesn't want it, Iran doesn't want it, Asia doesn't want it. No one wants it except the military industrial complex of the US. 

I haven't even mentioned what the US has done in South America or Africa and what they did in Vietnam is well known,



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Eagle367 said:

I am dead serious.

Okay, I believe you.  Have a good life.



NightlyPoe said:
Eagle367 said:

I am dead serious.

Okay, I believe you.  Have a good life.

You too. But strange response not addressing anything I said after calling me a troll for 2 or 3 posts. Your worldview is clearly different than mine but discussing things is the point of this thread. I didn't respond to you to be called a troll and then not get an honest reply. You can still choose to do that but I would still appreciate an honest reply 



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Eagle367 said:
NightlyPoe said:

Okay, I believe you.  Have a good life.

You too. But strange response not addressing anything I said after calling me a troll for 2 or 3 posts. Your worldview is clearly different than mine but discussing things is the point of this thread. I didn't respond to you to be called a troll and then not get an honest reply. You can still choose to do that but I would still appreciate an honest reply 

Honestly, it's usually a waste of time to talk politics with many people from US, they're a brainwashed society. She likely didn't even comprehend what you were saying because it differs with the propaganda drilled into her head.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:
Eagle367 said:

You too. But strange response not addressing anything I said after calling me a troll for 2 or 3 posts. Your worldview is clearly different than mine but discussing things is the point of this thread. I didn't respond to you to be called a troll and then not get an honest reply. You can still choose to do that but I would still appreciate an honest reply 

Honestly, it's usually a waste of time to talk politics with many people from US, they're a brainwashed society. She likely didn't even comprehend what you were saying because it differs with the propaganda drilled into her head.

It's quite sad really that they believe they are the good guys no matter what and every opponent has to be evil. If they realised the evils of their own government, there would be riots all over the US.



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Eagle367 said:
Jumpin said:

Honestly, it's usually a waste of time to talk politics with many people from US, they're a brainwashed society. She likely didn't even comprehend what you were saying because it differs with the propaganda drilled into her head.

It's quite sad really that they believe they are the good guys no matter what and every opponent has to be evil. If they realised the evils of their own government, there would be riots all over the US.

I’ll just say it isn’t about absolute good vs absolute evil. The average US citizen knows their government does shady stuff. But so long as most people enjoy a way of life that’s envied in lesser fortunate countries that have less freedom/rights/and amenities, the general masses just want to live their lives. 

The US doesn’t have to be the good guy, the other guy just has to be worse. And this Iranian general seems to fit the bill. 



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sales2099 said:
Eagle367 said:

It's quite sad really that they believe they are the good guys no matter what and every opponent has to be evil. If they realised the evils of their own government, there would be riots all over the US.

I’ll just say it isn’t about absolute good vs absolute evil. The average US citizen knows their government does shady stuff. But so long as most people enjoy a way of life that’s envied in lesser fortunate countries that have less freedom/rights/and amenities, the general masses just want to live their lives. 

The US doesn’t have to be the good guy, the other guy just has to be worse. And this Iranian general seems to fit the bill. 

I believe quite a few Americans know that they aren't actually always the good guys. And I'm not talking about absolutism but relativity. When I say good guys, I mean comparatively. But quite a few Americans do believe that the US does absolute good, whatever that means.

And let's look at it from not an American or western perspective but rather a Farsi perspective. You have this empire that overthrew your elected leader in the 1950s and subjected you to a rule under some vile puppet for decades which resulted in a revolution. But this revolution gave some bad actors power and not the people. Your country's entire trajectory completely changed for the worse because of this. On top of that this empire sided with a dictator from your neighboring country when it was convenient and then disposed of him when not. This same empire caused chaos in another neighbor of yours, which resulted in terrorism from 3 of your neighboring countries(Pak, AFG, Iraq).

Then this empire continues to cause chaos in your part of the world and their shenanigans keep bringing up new terrorist organisations that are a threat to the security of your entire region. And on top of that, this empire forces sanctions on your country and forces the rest of the world to oblige which inflates prices, makes your currency very worthless and is a constant cause of suffering for the poor of your people while the rich have ways to get by without any problems, so who they claim to hurt isn't actually being hurt but getting powerful.

And this brilliant military man stands up against this evil empire that keeps causing chaos and is a thorn on their side. Sure his methods are extreme but the empire has been causing chaos for so long that anything less than extreme might not be enough. The empire has been the cause of the death, suffering and even torture of so many of your people and the people of your neighbors but this guy is actually delivering damage to said empire. How will the death of such a figure make you feel? 

I'm not saying that Suleimani is some saviour and I'm not justifying any innocents he's murdered but trying to see it from the perspective of the side that you rarely consider. My point, though is that I disagree and besides, from a neutral perspective, Suleimani hasn't done anything the Americans haven't done themselves over the years. Suleimani doesn't fit the bill. He is as evil as the US army at the most. From where I stand, he is less evil than the US Army. The comparison of the magnitude of damage caused by the two is incomparable. 

You do bring up an interesting point about your own people prospering while others suffer. And even that doesn't apply to the US. It might apply to the Israel and Palestine situation, but not the US. See doing these wars and killing these people doesn't make the lives of the US citizens any better and I would argue it makes their lives slightly worse. Of course the military industrial complex gets a lot of money from conflict and the war profiteers make a pretty penny but the average American is either not affected at all or is hurt by this nonsense. I would argue the US has been the more evil one in almost all of the modern conflicts with other countries, especially in the middle east, Africa and South America. 

Give me a legitimate reason why you think Suleimani is more evil than the US? I'm sure I have plenty of counter examples ready for the US doing something just as bad, if not worse.



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

The US gets away with what it does around the world because it rarely ever effects us personally and our standard of living is high enough not to give a damn. Our complacency, our contentedness with 2 car garages and white picket fences with 2.3 kids and a dog has allowed hundreds of thousands, if not millions, to die.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

Eagle367 said:
sales2099 said:

I’ll just say it isn’t about absolute good vs absolute evil. The average US citizen knows their government does shady stuff. But so long as most people enjoy a way of life that’s envied in lesser fortunate countries that have less freedom/rights/and amenities, the general masses just want to live their lives. 

The US doesn’t have to be the good guy, the other guy just has to be worse. And this Iranian general seems to fit the bill. 

I believe quite a few Americans know that they aren't actually always the good guys. And I'm not talking about absolutism but relativity. When I say good guys, I mean comparatively. But quite a few Americans do believe that the US does absolute good, whatever that means.

And let's look at it from not an American or western perspective but rather a Farsi perspective. You have this empire that overthrew your elected leader in the 1950s and subjected you to a rule under some vile puppet for decades which resulted in a revolution. But this revolution gave some bad actors power and not the people. Your country's entire trajectory completely changed for the worse because of this. On top of that this empire sided with a dictator from your neighboring country when it was convenient and then disposed of him when not. This same empire caused chaos in another neighbor of yours, which resulted in terrorism from 3 of your neighboring countries(Pak, AFG, Iraq).

Then this empire continues to cause chaos in your part of the world and their shenanigans keep bringing up new terrorist organisations that are a threat to the security of your entire region. And on top of that, this empire forces sanctions on your country and forces the rest of the world to oblige which inflates prices, makes your currency very worthless and is a constant cause of suffering for the poor of your people while the rich have ways to get by without any problems, so who they claim to hurt isn't actually being hurt but getting powerful.

And this brilliant military man stands up against this evil empire that keeps causing chaos and is a thorn on their side. Sure his methods are extreme but the empire has been causing chaos for so long that anything less than extreme might not be enough. The empire has been the cause of the death, suffering and even torture of so many of your people and the people of your neighbors but this guy is actually delivering damage to said empire. How will the death of such a figure make you feel? 

I'm not saying that Suleimani is some saviour and I'm not justifying any innocents he's murdered but trying to see it from the perspective of the side that you rarely consider. My point, though is that I disagree and besides, from a neutral perspective, Suleimani hasn't done anything the Americans haven't done themselves over the years. Suleimani doesn't fit the bill. He is as evil as the US army at the most. From where I stand, he is less evil than the US Army. The comparison of the magnitude of damage caused by the two is incomparable. 

You do bring up an interesting point about your own people prospering while others suffer. And even that doesn't apply to the US. It might apply to the Israel and Palestine situation, but not the US. See doing these wars and killing these people doesn't make the lives of the US citizens any better and I would argue it makes their lives slightly worse. Of course the military industrial complex gets a lot of money from conflict and the war profiteers make a pretty penny but the average American is either not affected at all or is hurt by this nonsense. I would argue the US has been the more evil one in almost all of the modern conflicts with other countries, especially in the middle east, Africa and South America. 

Give me a legitimate reason why you think Suleimani is more evil than the US? I'm sure I have plenty of counter examples ready for the US doing something just as bad, if not worse.

Nope sorry I’m not getting more involved in this other then this post as I don’t debate terror sympathizers. I can imagine this is where you say the US is responsible for more terror. And all I can say is that US citizens have religious/expression/speech/gender freedoms where as the countries they intervene in do not (at least by comparison by a wide margin). And it’s this lack of social progress that is responsible for most of their problems and if not for them the US wouldn’t intervene in the first place. 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 29 February 2020

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