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SpokenTruth said:
EricHiggin said:

Pseudoscience doesn't mean it's wrong or false, it just means it hasn't been proven using the scientific method. Science doesn't instantly have a test and answer for everything immediately.

"The distribution of recorded events, however, correlates with media coverage of wind farm syndrome itself, and not with the presence or absence of wind farms."

The media has covered it, and so it must be true then correct? They don't lie, so I'm told.

You might want to read the actual news reporting cited on that page.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/mar/15/windfarm-sickness-spread-word-australia

"Health complaints from people living around turbines shown to be psychological effect of anti-wind lobby making people worry"

I did.

It says the problem seems to be more prevalent where anti wind protests are pushed. Why then where they are not pushed, does the problem seem to exist?

They say if they were unhealthy, you should see problems at all of them, yet you don't. Well not all turbines are the same and some are very different, plus where they are located can be very different as well. Some turbines are really quiet and some are really loud. Some are higher pitched, some lower pitched. Some have a gearbox and some don't. I've been to wind farms where the closest home is 10 km away, at a much lower altitude where they wouldn't ever hear the turbines.

They also point out a farmer himself who has a bunch of turbines on his land, which he's getting paid well for, and he complains of noise related issues, not cancer related though. I don't doubt him. Working around the turbines I can tell you that some of my co workers, trustworthy people, experienced minor balance and directional issues and I saw it first hand. Oddly tripping over themselves often enough that it wasn't coincidence, driving in the wrong direction based on the project map not realizing it, etc. It wasn't a major problem by any means, but definitely was felt by more than a few of them, and it was only if we were within the job site and where the louder turbines were operational. For me, it was just annoying at times when we were under a turbine for hours when the wind was more than just a breeze yet still quiet and you could hear the blades "swoosh."

I also keep in contact with some local people I've met over the years at different site locations, and the one's who live around the louder turbines, have told me they still have sleep issues. One person has a couple turbines on their land and regrets it, the other who just lived around a couple of them, moved a few years after because they worked from home and said they had trouble thinking in general when they could hear the turbines. This is why I wouldn't rule anything out at the moment because the problem could be deeper than that possibly. Maybe, maybe not.

To the others who may be complaining for 'no reason', maybe they see wind turbines in the same way some people see guns or even hate speech. If a turbine hurts just one person, or animal, or if it's presence or sound cause some people mental harm, well.



the-pi-guy said:
EricHiggin said:

Pseudoscience doesn't mean it's wrong or false, it just means it hasn't been proven using the scientific method. Science doesn't instantly have a test and answer for everything immediately.

"The distribution of recorded events, however, correlates with media coverage of wind farm syndrome itself, and not with the presence or absence of wind farms."

The media has covered it, and so it must be true then correct? They don't lie, so I'm told.

Incorrect.  There's a difference between an intentional lie and an unintentional lie.  

Most of the media is made up of journalists.  Most of those journalists don't have a deep understanding of the topics the write about.  Even specialists who are very knowledgeable in their area don't know enough to understand other stuff in related areas.  Take math for example, most mathematicians only know about their own  branch of math.  Imagine how much less a journalist who doesn't have a PhD in math, would understand about math.  

Now imagine that journalist reads something about math that seems more interesting than it really is.  

Take what happened in the 1970's with "global cooling".  One scientific paper suggesting that aerosols could cool the Earth, and much of the media spread news about an impending ice age.  Despite the fact that the science said the earth was warming, the media got excited about potential cooling.  

I don't really disagree with your answer, but my question is how are the people consuming the news supposed to know what the truth is and what isn't, and why do some people and the media get mad when they're said to be 'fake news'? If they don't really know what they're talking about, then why do they constantly say the 'fake news' assumption is a lie and that their news is true and factually based? If the journalists themselves don't know what is and isn't fact when it comes to the specific subject based on the story their telling, how can they expect people to believe it as truth?

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 03 April 2019

jason1637 said:

The NYT put out an interesting video on the relationship between Fox News and Trump

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmHUTNwn7L4&feature=youtu.be

I feel like Fox has got worse ever since Trump became President. Tucker is probably their only prime time host I can stand. Hannity and Ingraham have become government propaganda machines for the Trump admin.

All MSM is propaganda to some degree. Fox just won this round, and basically have it all to themselves as well. It pays to be different I guess.



EricHiggin said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

But those are generally built at least 500m from any housing, so no noise will be heard, rendering this point moot.

The noise can be heard from that far away. I've worked on plenty of wind farms and worked on many different turbine styles. If you've ever been out in the country on a quiet day you can hear things from a long long way away. There's times on my parents farm where I hear a police or ambulance siren and it literally takes 5 minutes sometimes before they physically pass by. If the wind is blowing in the right direction and the neighbor half a km away is drilling and sawing wood in the garage with the door open, I can hear it. If their dog is barking, regardless of wind direction, I can hear it.

Also, trying to say because you can't hear it means it doesn't affect you is like saying electricity can't hurt you because you can't see or hear it. That's exactly the reason why electricity is so dangerous. Heck, there's times you can get shocked and think you're fine, when really your heartbeat is slightly off because of the shock, and you won't really know it for the most part. Other times, quite rare, it'll be off in a manor that is easily noticeable and you'll need to go to the hospital and get medically shocked back into your regular rhythm.

Just because you can't see or hear something doesn't mean it can't or wont affect you. I'm not saying I believe it's true, I'm just saying I wouldn't totally dismiss it as a possibility.

I lived less than a kilometer away from 3 of these windmills, but I couldn't hear them. I had to get closer (300-400m) to really hear them. And yeah, that was fully out in the country, next to our house were just fields, and they built them in the midst of those fields.

The only discomfort that we had when to wind was blowing from their direction wasn't any noise, but a great stink. Those fields belonged to the neighboring town, and the farmer always put the manure on the field when the wind was blowing away from his town and into our direction. Still, no sound from the windmills whatsoever. And we could hear the church bell (one kilometer away) and, on perfect weather conditions, the train (the station is about 2.5 kilometers away.

It might have been a design which emits less noise, but still. There's a reason why no one builds close to windmills.

Also, his claim of 75% value loss is bullshit. Our house was still gaining in value in those 3 years after the windmill were build.

But hey, Donald Quixote and Sancho Penca may fight as much as they want against Windmills, it won't do them any good.



Bofferbrauer2 said:
EricHiggin said:

The noise can be heard from that far away. I've worked on plenty of wind farms and worked on many different turbine styles. If you've ever been out in the country on a quiet day you can hear things from a long long way away. There's times on my parents farm where I hear a police or ambulance siren and it literally takes 5 minutes sometimes before they physically pass by. If the wind is blowing in the right direction and the neighbor half a km away is drilling and sawing wood in the garage with the door open, I can hear it. If their dog is barking, regardless of wind direction, I can hear it.

Also, trying to say because you can't hear it means it doesn't affect you is like saying electricity can't hurt you because you can't see or hear it. That's exactly the reason why electricity is so dangerous. Heck, there's times you can get shocked and think you're fine, when really your heartbeat is slightly off because of the shock, and you won't really know it for the most part. Other times, quite rare, it'll be off in a manor that is easily noticeable and you'll need to go to the hospital and get medically shocked back into your regular rhythm.

Just because you can't see or hear something doesn't mean it can't or wont affect you. I'm not saying I believe it's true, I'm just saying I wouldn't totally dismiss it as a possibility.

I lived less than a kilometer away from 3 of these windmills, but I couldn't hear them. I had to get closer (300-400m) to really hear them. And yeah, that was fully out in the country, next to our house were just fields, and they built them in the midst of those fields.

The only discomfort that we had when to wind was blowing from their direction wasn't any noise, but a great stink. Those fields belonged to the neighboring town, and the farmer always put the manure on the field when the wind was blowing away from his town and into our direction. Still, no sound from the windmills whatsoever. And we could hear the church bell (one kilometer away) and, on perfect weather conditions, the train (the station is about 2.5 kilometers away.

It might have been a design which emits less noise, but still. There's a reason why no one builds close to windmills.

Also, his claim of 75% value loss is bullshit. Our house was still gaining in value in those 3 years after the windmill were build.

But hey, Donald Quixote and Sancho Penca may fight as much as they want against Windmills, it won't do them any good.

Well you said 500M to begin with. At 1000M the sound is basically non existent for the quietest turbines, and fairly quiet for the loudest. The quieter turbines are considerably more expensive though so they tend to get used much less. The overwhelming majority of wind farms I've been on have been set at the 500M minimum distance, so well within range of easily being audible for most turbines. Depends on each individuals hearing, as well as how open the fields are or if there are lots of woodlands around.

My brother was looking to buy a home a few years ago in an area that recently became a wind farm and the homes were already down 25% at that point in time. He didn't end up buying because my parents real estate agent who's selling the farm told him the prices were sure to drop even more. Those same homes now are down 40% and they still aren't selling. 75% was probably cherry picked from a worst case scenario, but it's quite common for homes to lose value due to wind and solar.

If you've ever been near an operational solar farm on a sunny day, some of the cheaper power inverter stations make a really high pitched loud annoying whine. They all make a high pitch whine but the good ones are fairly quiet. Those solar farms can be right beside a bunch of homes and I'd hate to live there and have to deal with it. I know a couple in the local community that I went to high school with who were living alongside a new solar site we built, and they complained afterwards once the site was live and got nowhere, and have since moved. They weren't to happy either because they took around a 20% loss to be able to sell so they tell me.

There's lots of things people are fighting against and getting nowhere for the most part because they have an opinion but don't know the entirety of the issues themselves and how they may impact other things as well.



CaptainExplosion said:

He really is encouraging white supremacist terrorists. Thanks for nothing, America.

The way the conversation is laid out it sounds as if it was off the cuff and almost like he wasn't in a sound state of mind. Does calling up her office and asking who she works for, then eventually mentioning he'd shoot her because he thinks she's a terrorist, count as plotting to kill her? If he said it he said it, but plotting requires planning beforehand. I also only see his name and age, never a mention of being white, which leads me to believe he's not white, since the news is pretty consistent in mentioning a white male if that's the case.

Trump only says she doesn't like Israel. Seems like there's plenty of different people who aren't exactly fans of Israel either. Does the caller have some sort of connection to Israel?

Luckily the idiot made a phone call and didn't act on it but regardless, it was a really dumb thing to do period. 



CaptainExplosion said:

He really is encouraging white supremacist terrorists. Thanks for nothing, America.

What makes the "Trump fan" a white supremacist?

Do you assume it because of skincolour or is there further related information to back it up?



CaptainExplosion said:
Immersiveunreality said:

What makes the "Trump fan" a white supremacist?

Do you assume it because of skincolour or is there further related information to back it up?

It's because of, oh, I don't know, EVERYTHING HE'S SAID ABOUT NON-WHITES AND NON-CHRISTIANS BEFORE AND AFTER HE WAS ELECTED.

To him Muslims must be banned, black women are dogs, Hatians all have AIDS, Mexicans are rapists, Syrian refugees are snakes, brown refugees are infestations, black athletes are SOBs and asylum seekers are dogs.

Meanwhile he says white supremacists are very fine people.

Combine his praise of white supremacists with his attacks on their victims, what do you get? Definitive proof that he is a white supremacist terrorist himself.

You don't need to actually commit acts of politically motivated violence yourself to be a terrorist, you're still one even if you just encourage or threaten it.

Speaking of white supremacist terrorists, how is it that in America countless non-whites and non-Christians are murdered by these scum, yet supporters of these crimes like Pat Robertson have gotten off Scott free for decades?

America really is the land of the free, but only if you're a hateful white prune who's a cheerleader for white supremacists.

I wonder what drives you to keep making those hyperbolic statements because most of what you say is only partly truth conveniently fabricated to bring more weight to your own beliefs that are bordering to the religion of ideals that you do not control,they control you.

I like you, as i like others on this site for wanting to have good things for people but all this black and white rhetoric without a middleground is something i can never agree with .

Bolded: He did not say any of those things and that sentence is just your own fantasy going wild,link me any sources that has him saying those same things you accuse him off.



SpokenTruth said:
Immersiveunreality said:

What makes the "Trump fan" a white supremacist?

Do you assume it because of skincolour or is there further related information to back it up?

Because a 2 minute Google search gives the guys name and his white supremacy background.

Seems pretty clear he has something against Islam and Muslims, as well as Dems, but how does that confirm he's a white supremacist? Are there no whites in the Democratic Party? Can whites not follow Islam and/or live in the Middle East?

He also isn't exactly friendly to his own friends, or hot chicks, or anyone really?

"Carlineo posted a meme in October 2016 with the words, “grab today by the p*ssy.” When one of his friends called the comment sexist and insensitive, Carlineo shot back, “The truth only pisses of liberals…fact check that.”

"On March 1, 2018, he posted, “I’m currently not accepting friend requests from the following 1. people from middle eastern countries 2. really hot women that have 1 friend on facebook 3. Anyone with a joint facebook account 4.And people with no profile pic. Thank you and have a great day.”



SpokenTruth said:
EricHiggin said:

Seems pretty clear he has something against Islam and Muslims, as well as Dems, but how does that confirm he's a white supremacist? Are there no whites in the Democratic Party? Can whites not follow Islam and/or live in the Middle East?

He also isn't exactly friendly to his own friends, or hot chicks, or anyone really?

"Carlineo posted a meme in October 2016 with the words, “grab today by the p*ssy.” When one of his friends called the comment sexist and insensitive, Carlineo shot back, “The truth only pisses of liberals…fact check that.”

"On March 1, 2018, he posted, “I’m currently not accepting friend requests from the following 1. people from middle eastern countries 2. really hot women that have 1 friend on facebook 3. Anyone with a joint facebook account 4.And people with no profile pic. Thank you and have a great day.”

Are you really trying to defend this guy?  He's anti-black and anti-Muslim, but somehow not a white supremacist?

Also seems pretty clear he likes Trump and the Republicans. Are they all white? 

Your linked background information on him is a minuscule slice of his entire history. Any chance they happened to leave out the hate against whites? If you believe he's a white supremacist, his friends must be white, and he implied one of them must be a liberal, which he doesn't like, so.

Defending him in terms of not necessarily being a white supremacist. If he said what they say he did, then that's on him for being an idiot. Seems like he might not be entirely right in the head, sort of like the MAGA bomber.

"It is not known if Carlineo has any previous criminal history." How often does a news story miss out or pass up on pointing out past criminal history if one exists, especially when they are trying to make a point?