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Forums - Politics Discussion - Official 2020 US Election: Democratic Party Discussion

SpokenTruth said:
jason1637 said:

Moren already addressed your first point.

As for the second one Yang said he'd only endorse someone that supports UBI and when he was running he mentioned that Biden was interested in learning more about it and constantly brought it up in conversation with him.

No way in hell.  Biden just said today that if Medicare For All based both houses of Congress, he still veto it because he doesn't like the math on it.  Now tell me how he's going to like the math on UBI.  And again, progressive polices are not his style.  Haven't been since the late 70's.  He's willing to cut Medicare, Medicaid and SS, for crying out loud.

Oh, and Yang is wrong on the electoral math.  It's next week that will finalize that.

Well you can support UBI and not MAA. I dont like MAA but want UBI. And if Biden has expressed interest in it I can see it happen. UBI is neccessary to moge forward in the 4th industrial revolution. 



DarthMetalliCube said:
LurkerJ said:
Well I guess now the Bernie dream is over now. Andrew Yang ednorsement means jackshit. I don't get the logic behind endorsing a candidate who opposes everything you stand for. What good did it do Bernie to campaign tirelessly for a war loving monster? Biden vs Trump, same coin, different sides. I hope Bernie retires peacefully and not support Biden the way he supported Hillary. Endorse and move on.

Bernie should have started a major third party in this country. If anyone could have pulled it off, he could have. Instead, he's going to capitulate to the Neolib/Neocon establishment YET AGAIN and then try and shame his supporters into voting for Biden (of which 70% will say thanks but no thanks). Then Trump's going to inevitably win because of all the young people and PoC staying at home on election day, and the Democrats are again going to blame the "Toxic Bernie Bros" for his victory, while having zero introspection whatsoever. I already know how this freaking plays out. It's predictable at this point. So if they're going to point the finger at these people anyway, they might as well split off.

If Bernie spearheaded, say, the new Labor or Social Democrats of the US, joining with the likes of Kucinich, Tulsi, Gravel, Nina, AOC, Andrew Yang, Williamson, etc.. I really think he and they would have brought MILLIONS with him. It's already known that roughly a third of this country identifies as neither Democrat OR Republican but "Independent." I really feel like many of these people are looking for a political home, and neither the GOP or DNC can quite provide it. I know this is increasingly the case with me, especially over the last 5-6 years. 

But no, instead the Democrats continue to shift increasingly to the right and Authoritarian, whilst trying to pull their actual left wing supporters with them.. Then shaming them into voting for their manufactured corporatist centrist candidate, when the FARTHER right candidate on the Republican side inevitably wins the election, and the cycle will repeat..

In a country as vast, populated, and diverse as America, with well over 320 MILLION people, it's absurd to me that we continue to peddle this failing duopoly of just 2 major political parties, and try to gather everyone into these 2 massive umbrellas. If the Brits can pull off 3, so can we! And the Dems have made it abundantly clear at this point that they have NO room or love for actual progressives, shaming them as being "divisive," "toxic," or "secret Russians" or some other bullshit. I say it's time the people on the left start to take the message and split off from these centrists. 

But again.. if Bernie doesn't do it, it will happen with someone else, rest assured. And maybe sooner than we think.

I just need to read the bolded part and can stop already.

Do you understand how politics in the US work? Creating another party would split the democratic vote and ensure that the republicans would win any following election, even if they would only get about 40% of the votes due to winner takes all. Starting a new party would have killed the democratic party.

He could have done so without the winner takes all system. In fact, I'm sure he would have then (and many others too, for that matter), but the way politics work in the US, that would just be delivering the victory to the enemy on a silver platter.



SpokenTruth said:
jason1637 said:

Well you can support UBI and not MAA. I dont like MAA but want UBI. And if Biden has expressed interest in it I can see it happen. UBI is neccessary to moge forward in the 4th industrial revolution. 

You don't understand.  If Biden doesn't like M4A because he doesn't see how to pay for it, how can he possibly be for UBI given there definitely isn't a way to pay for it?

Also.

Biden in 2017 saying no to UBI.

Biden in 2018 saying no to UBI.

2018 is the past. His convos with Yang could have changed his opinion.  

As for paying for UBI all you need is a VAT half the European level, take money from other programs if the people on this go to UBI, increase corporate tax back to Obama levels, and you'll generate enough for the rest.



Oh lord, so no idea how true it is or not but if it is, the reason Bernie refuses to go nuclear on Biden and refuses to give himself a legitimate shot at winning? Its because Biden is his good friend. This man knows how bad climate change is, how bad our system needs reforming, how badly people need help and he's putting personal feelings above the millions and millions who have donated to him. Good news is, once Bernie does lose the nomination giving Trump 4 more years he will be dead to me and the movement so yay.



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uran10 said:

Oh lord, so no idea how true it is or not but if it is, the reason Bernie refuses to go nuclear on Biden and refuses to give himself a legitimate shot at winning? Its because Biden is his good friend. This man knows how bad climate change is, how bad our system needs reforming, how badly people need help and he's putting personal feelings above the millions and millions who have donated to him. Good news is, once Bernie does lose the nomination giving Trump 4 more years he will be dead to me and the movement so yay.

Bernie should have fired Sirota a long time ago.

The tonal shift is because Bernie realized something  that was obvious for everyone for a while: He can't win with Uran-like people alone without a divided field. He needs to expand his base, and going more negative will destroy his image among voters.

Last edited by Moren - on 11 March 2020

In some good news for the Biden camp, Kyle thinks that Biden has a shot vs Trump because of corona and the possibility of the Market crashing.

Last edited by uran10 - on 11 March 2020

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uran10 said:

In some good news for the Biden camp, Kyle thinks that Biden has a shot vs Trump because of corona and the possibility of the Market crashing.

Well, the pandemic is official, and it probably hits the US hard. Reason is that many people avoid seeing a doctor fearing high costs because of missing or insufficient health insurance and so spreading the virus undetected. This makes containment very hard. Also many will work while showing symptoms, because they haven't paid sick leave. I expect the US soon being hit very hard by the virus, along with China, Iran and Italy.

Not so sure how this works out on the electorate though. Maybe republicans feeling secure because they prayed to not be infected are go voting while democrats fearing infection stay home? I really have difficulties seeing how a widespread infection might affect the November election. It can go either way.

Last edited by Mnementh - on 11 March 2020

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I'm pretty confident Biden will win the presidency now that an economic crash is imminent and the pandemic is getting more serious. Before these developments he would've definitely lost or at least had an extremely tough time. Say what you want about Clinton (I'm not a fan at all obviously) but she was more competent than Biden and even she lost.

Warren is good at what she does and she saw this crash coming a mile away.



 

tsogud said:

I'm pretty confident Biden will win the presidency now that an economic crash is imminent and the pandemic is getting more serious. Before these developments he would've definitely lost or at least had an extremely tough time. Say what you want about Clinton (I'm not a fan at all obviously) but she was more competent than Biden and even she lost.

Warren is good at what she does and she saw this crash coming a mile away.

Don't know about economic crash, but the pandemic is pretty difficult to predict. By November the pandemic is either over for months or it has hit the world hard with millions of deaths.



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SpokenTruth said:

Things that make you go Hmmmmmmm....

Every state that Biden has won has finished counting or is at 98-99% reported.

Over half the states that Sanders has won are still counting:
Washington - 67%
California - 94%
Colorado - 89%
Utah - 78%

California is a big one even with 94% reporting because LA County (the largest county in the US with 10.5 million people) is just 58% reported. All other CA counties are 100%.

Mail-in ballots... you can submit them to postal services up to the election day itself. Everyone knew California would take weeks. It always does.

Also, take into account all of the states you mentioned started voting early before all the other candidates suspended their campaigns. Otherwise it's not unfeasible that Biden would've won them all, really, so Sanders was sort of saved by the early voters.

Man, people really hated Hillary Clinton, didn't they? All that protest vote for Sanders in 2016...