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Forums - Gaming Discussion - so what if microsoft DIDN'T waste money... GTA dlc

disolitude said:
axumblade said:
disolitude said:
BMaker11 said:
disolitude said:

Wow I never realized so many half witted people on the intranetZ don't know what they are talking about and try to pass their lack of knowledge as facts.

http://www.edge-online.com/news/microsoft-paid-50m-advance-gta-iv-content

"Next-Gen contacted Wedbush Morgan Securities analyst Michael Pachter, who further explained the deal. "What Microsoft did was pay a $50 million advance," he said, much in the same way a big-name author receives a payment in advance of his or her next book."

"If revenues don't meet that figure, Take-Two will have to return some of the advance, according to Pachter. But he said that there's no reason to believe Take-Two would actually miss that revenue target."

MS paid for the DLC to get made, be exclusive for a year and got their money back, one way or another. Now PS3 owners get to enjoy this game. Mission acomplished for all.  Lets move on.

Hrmm....listen to what Take Two said? Or listen to Pachter?


I'd trust Pachter unless you have a link which quotes take two employee saying "Microsoft paid 50 million for this DLC and we got to fuck them royaly!"

MS management ain't no fool to waste money like that...they are infact considered one of the best management companies out there. they could have easily bought full timed GTA4 exclusivity for 50 million.

In all honesty, it does make sense. I'm not sure if Microsoft shouted the figure out or not but it's a good way to advertise that you're paying for exclusivity.

Also, did you call people halfwitted and then quote Pachter? I mean, he's been on the ball lately but there was a long time that he was off his game before his recent string of successes.. 


No one other than Pachter has come out and said anything about this deal. Every other article is "MS pays 50 mil for GTA4 DLC...the end". No details.

I didn't say people were halfwitted based on this article alone...all possibilities of MS giving cash 50 mil to take two without any strings attached flew out the window when the PS3/PC version was announced.

Just think about it...

Microsoft: "We will pay you 50 million, which you don't have to pay back or we dont have to earn back. And no, we don't want to make this DLC exclusive. We want to only keep it on our console for a year."

I mean, if it was Sega...maybe, Atari...definetly...but Microsoft doesn't do business like this.

So.....since the beginning of the generation, all those "exclusives" that Microsoft nabbed up were just from loan money, is what you're trying to say? Bioshock was a loan? Multiple JRPGs were a loan? I doubt that they just loan money out to every developers for timed exclusivity on their games. The INDUSTRY doesn't do business like that. 

 



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heruamon said:
LOL...xbox gamers got the play Episodes from Liberty City a year earlier for Lost and 6 months for Gay Tony...the DLC and Retail sold over 3 million copies...M$ "LOANED" 2K the cash for this exclusivity...and M$ has been repaid and then some...I'm not getting how this was a waste? It probably cost Rockstar 2-3 million to develop the DLC, so they made out like bandits, so it's a win-win for everybody concerned...even PS3 only gamers who are getting it 12 months later. This is athe same as Fallout DLC...I guess that was a failure as well...lol...not in my book...and I have the achievements to show it!

Link please to where Microsoft or Take Two says it was a loan. I can link you to where the higher ups at Take Two say that it cost $25M per episode. You lose on both counts



Wow. There are a lot of people in here that swear they know what they're talking about on both sides.

1. The original comments from Lainie Goldstein are obnoxiously vague in what they actually mean. They obviously weren't meant as a means to spills the beans on a private deal to the general public. So much can be assumed by his comments, but very little derived. There's also a lack of content since we don't have the question he was asked in the stripped articles we're getting his quote from.

2. Are we seriously listening to Michael Pachter now because it's convenient? I mean really. I'm not saying the guy is wrong, but let's at least show a little consistency here regarding the man.

3. Really what we know from this deal is very little, because that's all anyone that does know cares to tell us. So let's act like we know as much as we actually do and stop the nonsense assumptions on good or bad business practices.



Tag: Became a freaking mod and a complete douche, coincidentally, at the same time.



Onyxmeth said:

Wow. There are a lot of people in here that swear they know what they're talking about on both sides.

1. The original comments from Lainie Goldstein are obnoxiously vague in what they actually mean. They obviously weren't meant as a means to spills the beans on a private deal to the general public. So much can be assumed by his comments, but very little derived. There's also a lack of content since we don't have the question he was asked in the stripped articles we're getting his quote from.

2. Are we seriously listening to Michael Pachter now because it's convenient? I mean really. I'm not saying the guy is wrong, but let's at least show a little consistency here regarding the man.

3. Really what we know from this deal is very little, because that's all anyone that does know cares to tell us. So let's act like we know as much as we actually do and stop the nonsense assumptions on good or bad business practices.


There is a difference between listening to Pachter when he is making a crazy Wii HD prediction or other predictions he makes...and telling exacly how a GTA DLC deal works. There is not a spot in that article where Pachter says "In my opinion Microsoft loaned..." or "What I think happened is...".

Are you saying he is just flat out lying?



disolitude said:
Onyxmeth said:

Wow. There are a lot of people in here that swear they know what they're talking about on both sides.

1. The original comments from Lainie Goldstein are obnoxiously vague in what they actually mean. They obviously weren't meant as a means to spills the beans on a private deal to the general public. So much can be assumed by his comments, but very little derived. There's also a lack of content since we don't have the question he was asked in the stripped articles we're getting his quote from.

2. Are we seriously listening to Michael Pachter now because it's convenient? I mean really. I'm not saying the guy is wrong, but let's at least show a little consistency here regarding the man.

3. Really what we know from this deal is very little, because that's all anyone that does know cares to tell us. So let's act like we know as much as we actually do and stop the nonsense assumptions on good or bad business practices.


There is a difference between listening to Pachter when he is making a crazy Wii HD prediction or other predictions he makes...and telling exacly how a GTA DLC deal works. There is not a spot in that article where Pachter says "In my opinion Microsoft loaned..." or "What I think happened is...".

Are you saying he is just flat out lying?

No. Are you saying he without a shadow of a doubt has insider knowledge to this particular transaction and wasn't merely guesstimating? Just because someone starts their sentence making it appear as fact doesn't necessarily mean they meant to or actually knows anything. The majority of this site craps out opinions and guesstimations pretending to be facts all the time. They also give out lousy predictions, lousy market analysis and general lousy knowledge about the business end of gaming just like this man does. I mean the guy speaks in words like "hardcore gamer" and "casual gamer" to explain software sales like he's a 15 year old forum frequenter and I'm supposed to listen to what he says just because he says it?



Tag: Became a freaking mod and a complete douche, coincidentally, at the same time.



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BMaker11 said:
heruamon said:
LOL...xbox gamers got the play Episodes from Liberty City a year earlier for Lost and 6 months for Gay Tony...the DLC and Retail sold over 3 million copies...M$ "LOANED" 2K the cash for this exclusivity...and M$ has been repaid and then some...I'm not getting how this was a waste? It probably cost Rockstar 2-3 million to develop the DLC, so they made out like bandits, so it's a win-win for everybody concerned...even PS3 only gamers who are getting it 12 months later. This is athe same as Fallout DLC...I guess that was a failure as well...lol...not in my book...and I have the achievements to show it!

Link please to where Microsoft or Take Two says it was a loan. I can link you to where the higher ups at Take Two say that it cost $25M per episode. You lose on both counts

Yup, I have not link on the specifics of the deal...so you can ontinue to believe that M$ paid $50 million to secure  exclusivity for 6 months.  At any rate...M$ EDD reported another $300 million plus quarter and hte fifth in hte row...so evidently, they are doing A-OK in the business department, and making the right calls.



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder

heruamon said:
BMaker11 said:
heruamon said:
LOL...xbox gamers got the play Episodes from Liberty City a year earlier for Lost and 6 months for Gay Tony...the DLC and Retail sold over 3 million copies...M$ "LOANED" 2K the cash for this exclusivity...and M$ has been repaid and then some...I'm not getting how this was a waste? It probably cost Rockstar 2-3 million to develop the DLC, so they made out like bandits, so it's a win-win for everybody concerned...even PS3 only gamers who are getting it 12 months later. This is athe same as Fallout DLC...I guess that was a failure as well...lol...not in my book...and I have the achievements to show it!

Link please to where Microsoft or Take Two says it was a loan. I can link you to where the higher ups at Take Two say that it cost $25M per episode. You lose on both counts

Yup, I have not link on the specifics of the deal...so you can ontinue to believe that M$ paid $50 million to secure  exclusivity for 6 months.  At any rate...M$ EDD reported another $300 million plus quarter and hte fifth in hte row...so evidently, they are doing A-OK in the business department, and making the right calls.

Why is it that speculation (the $50M being a loan) is now being regarded as fact, especially when "it was a loan" came from absolutely nowhere? And the only facts that we do have are, conversely, being regarded as speculation. Here's the tangible facts that we know of. Take Two had a conference call. In it, some execs said "Microsoft gave us $50M. It's going to be about $25M per episode for GTAIV"......and you're trying to spin that to make me sound ignorant?

Yea, sure. You can continue to believe that loan speculation, which was generated PURELY by forum goers and never ONCE stated by MS or T2, is fact. I'll listen to what the guys at Take Two say. And I don't care about their earning this quarter. #1 They're MS....you know, the big multibillion dollar company that has like 95% of the computer marketshare. Have they ever posted in the red, the whole company, not just the games division (which, by the way, that $300M figure isn't just from games)? #2 The deal with Take Two was in early 2007. What relevance does that earnings report have here anyway?



BMaker11 said:
heruamon said:
BMaker11 said:
heruamon said:
LOL...xbox gamers got the play Episodes from Liberty City a year earlier for Lost and 6 months for Gay Tony...the DLC and Retail sold over 3 million copies...M$ "LOANED" 2K the cash for this exclusivity...and M$ has been repaid and then some...I'm not getting how this was a waste? It probably cost Rockstar 2-3 million to develop the DLC, so they made out like bandits, so it's a win-win for everybody concerned...even PS3 only gamers who are getting it 12 months later. This is athe same as Fallout DLC...I guess that was a failure as well...lol...not in my book...and I have the achievements to show it!

Link please to where Microsoft or Take Two says it was a loan. I can link you to where the higher ups at Take Two say that it cost $25M per episode. You lose on both counts

Yup, I have not link on the specifics of the deal...so you can ontinue to believe that M$ paid $50 million to secure  exclusivity for 6 months.  At any rate...M$ EDD reported another $300 million plus quarter and hte fifth in hte row...so evidently, they are doing A-OK in the business department, and making the right calls.

Why is it that speculation (the $50M being a loan) is now being regarded as fact, especially when "it was a loan" came from absolutely nowhere? And the only facts that we do have are, conversely, being regarded as speculation. Here's the tangible facts that we know of. Take Two had a conference call. In it, some execs said "Microsoft gave us $50M. It's going to be about $25M per episode for GTAIV"......and you're trying to spin that to make me sound ignorant?

Yea, sure. You can continue to believe that loan speculation, which was generated PURELY by forum goers and never ONCE stated by MS or T2, is fact. I'll listen to what the guys at Take Two say. And I don't care about their earning this quarter. #1 They're MS....you know, the big multibillion dollar company that has like 95% of the computer marketshare. Have they ever posted in the red, the whole company, not just the games division (which, by the way, that $300M figure isn't just from games)? #2 The deal with Take Two was in early 2007. What relevance does that earnings report have here anyway?

Whether you call it loan or advanced them the money...what we are talking about here is standard business practices used in the entertianment industry.  Look at movies or music...you ADVANCE somebody money, if you are confident of sales figures, and you will recoup them on the other end...nothing amazing here, but what are suggesting is that M$ simply forked over $50 million for exclusivity...which is wrong, imho.



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder

heruamon said:
BMaker11 said:
heruamon said:
BMaker11 said:
heruamon said:
LOL...xbox gamers got the play Episodes from Liberty City a year earlier for Lost and 6 months for Gay Tony...the DLC and Retail sold over 3 million copies...M$ "LOANED" 2K the cash for this exclusivity...and M$ has been repaid and then some...I'm not getting how this was a waste? It probably cost Rockstar 2-3 million to develop the DLC, so they made out like bandits, so it's a win-win for everybody concerned...even PS3 only gamers who are getting it 12 months later. This is athe same as Fallout DLC...I guess that was a failure as well...lol...not in my book...and I have the achievements to show it!

Link please to where Microsoft or Take Two says it was a loan. I can link you to where the higher ups at Take Two say that it cost $25M per episode. You lose on both counts

Yup, I have not link on the specifics of the deal...so you can ontinue to believe that M$ paid $50 million to secure  exclusivity for 6 months.  At any rate...M$ EDD reported another $300 million plus quarter and hte fifth in hte row...so evidently, they are doing A-OK in the business department, and making the right calls.

Why is it that speculation (the $50M being a loan) is now being regarded as fact, especially when "it was a loan" came from absolutely nowhere? And the only facts that we do have are, conversely, being regarded as speculation. Here's the tangible facts that we know of. Take Two had a conference call. In it, some execs said "Microsoft gave us $50M. It's going to be about $25M per episode for GTAIV"......and you're trying to spin that to make me sound ignorant?

Yea, sure. You can continue to believe that loan speculation, which was generated PURELY by forum goers and never ONCE stated by MS or T2, is fact. I'll listen to what the guys at Take Two say. And I don't care about their earning this quarter. #1 They're MS....you know, the big multibillion dollar company that has like 95% of the computer marketshare. Have they ever posted in the red, the whole company, not just the games division (which, by the way, that $300M figure isn't just from games)? #2 The deal with Take Two was in early 2007. What relevance does that earnings report have here anyway?

Whether you call it loan or advanced them the money...what we are talking about here is standard business practices used in the entertianment industry.  Look at movies or music...you ADVANCE somebody money, if you are confident of sales figures, and you will recoup them on the other end...nothing amazing here, but what are suggesting is that M$ simply forked over $50 million for exclusivity...which is wrong, imho.

Why is it so hard to believe that they forked over money for temporary exclusivity? Hell, they did it with Tales of Vesperia. Namco Bandai straight up said they did. Extrapolate that situation to GTAIV, which is one of the biggest games this generation, and the $50M doesn't seem so unrealistic. This game was THE game that they took from the Playstation. The fact that they paid some amount for exclusivity shouldn't even be brought into question since they've done it so much before. For GTAIV? They'd pay any amount



Okay...if you want to believe that...go right ahead...I have my doubts about that. As for those other game series, you have no idea what the terms were...but based on comments from Japanese developers, it seemed that M$ invested money in developing games for the 360...which made sense, as a way to encourage developers to learn to program on the 360, and exclusivity was the by-product. So, it's basically, here's $3-4 million to help defray the cost of making the games, and I'll (as in M$) will make it up on sales. In fact, that's why that article said about 8 months ago...the Japanese developers HAD to port it the PS3 to make money...so if M$ paid for the whole bill...why would the Japanese developer care about breaking even...seems like they would be at breakeven from unit one.



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder