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Ubisoft commit commercial suicide

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@Everyone, the main protection this DRM gives is likely the inability to save games to the local HDD. So whilst you can crack the game, you'd need a unique key to go online and play it.



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ChichiriMuyo said:

As has already been said, no one has proven there is a negative impact from piracy and the reason they haven't is because they can't.  If they could, they would.  Statistical data on piracy would be everywhere, the math would be testable, and the results would be reproducable.  The fact is, though, that piracy has a statistically insignificant impact on their business.  Most people who pirate would love it if they could afford to buy legitimate copies, they don't because they can't. 

Do take note, that they are also using this system to stop used sales.  What they are doing is fighting tooth and nail to show some kind of improved profit margin.  They do not care if you buy their game legitimately or not, they care if they get the money for it.  They hate used sales just as much as piracy and this is a mover to fight used sales just as much as it is to fight piracy. 

If they get their way they actually won't have any impact on pirates, since the game can be hacked to avoid the security altogether, but it will have a severe impact on people who buy games second-hand.  What they are really doing is squeezing the middle market, which will only have the effect of making used buyers in to new buyers or pirates.  This is not something that deserves praise.

Hell, the fact that people actually think this move is about piracy is laughable.  They can't kill piracy, they know it, and you'd have to be completely naive to think this will slow the pirates down even one bit.  This is about the used market, and you're going to miss it when it is gone.  Trust me.

Like i said you should have checked the bittorrent numbers that were released recently. For example: The game Prototype was downloaded more times than it was sold on PS3 and X360 COMBINED. And that's just Bittorrent, and only downloads since it could have been copied multiple times after.

So don't go saying it doesn't impact the bussiness because it does.

And i hounestly won't miss the used game market one second, since iv'e resold only a handfew of games in my entire life, and those i did were for like $10 to friends. And to be honest, nobody complaints if they pay like $10 to watch a movie of 2 hours in the theater, why complain when paying $40(PC average new price) for 10-20 of game entertainment?

 

On-topic: Ass said above, you probably need to online to access your savegame and maybe to save your game aswell. And again in future optimations games could be programmed to get parts of the game code online.



Twistedpixel said:
AnthonyW86 said:

I'm actually with Ubi on this 100%. I actually expected this kind of system to pop up years ago. Because if this works it could stop piracy, and that means finally more real PC games. Let's get some facts straight here:

Every single person with a capable gaming PC has an internet connection, so no problem there.
Games like WoW require you to be online to play aswell, and nobody complaints there.

Because let's face it, piracy has gone over the top. We al saw the estimates from bittorent from last year and that was just a fraction of the problem. Again don't blame this on Ubisoft, blame it on the people pirating games!

I really think we've reached a threshold here, and there are only two options left for alot of game developers: Get this or a similair system to try and stop piracy, or mostly abandon PC gaming.

Im with you and Ubisoft 100% on this.

The article gave conditions like gaming laptops where you may not have an internet connection. However thats BS because you'd burn through your battery in less than 90 minutes playing off battery and usually where theres a power source theres an internet connection. If not, how many people won't have a 3G mobile or better within a couple of years? So when you run inside to plug it in, you've got internet back to save woohoo!

The DRM here really is the placement of saved games online. That means you can pirate the game, break the authentication but it won't help because you can't save the game. So sure, you can argue about 'downloading to test' the games and be 100% right whether the intentions there to buy or not because it effectively renders an offline version as an unlimited demo.

I would personally prefer an unobtrusive DRM like this over CD-checks, cracks etc and if the piracy issue can be solved I can return to gaming full time on my PC because I will know all the games I could ever want will be day and date releases with consoles. I think anyone who wants a return to the glory days of PC gaming ought to support this. I want the PC games to actually have value, rather than just feeling like im a douche for actually paying for them when nobody else does.

This is not true. Nowadays there are more laptops being sold than desktop PCs, and the large majority of them don't have an internet connection ready at thand. It will add another explanation as to why AC2 will fail on PC in sales.



ZenfoldorVGI said:
NJ5 said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
NJ5 said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
I really like how Ubisoft is treating PC gamers lately. They're an independent bunch, and ubisoft is like the lone sheriff in the old west, trying to fight the tide of thieves and criminals.

World of Warcraft requires you to always be online, and it didn't hurt it too much, did it?

I think when you have so many pirates like you do with PC gaming, you need to combat them, and this is where it has always been headed, really. Did no one else realize that?

Saying WoW requires online is like saying breathing requires being alive. If you're not online, what's the point in playing an MMO?

As for your last paragraph... I bet pirates will be able to pirate the game anyway (as always happens).

 

You can't pirate WoW. If ubisoft made all games have the login requirements of a MMO, then you shouldn't be able to pirate them either. If ubi is going this far they should at least make sure that folks can't pirate the games. If not, it's useless.

Also, in my first paragraph, I meant to say I like how Ubisoft is treating Pirates, not PC gamers, brainfart. :P

WoW is harder to pirate because the core functionality of the game requires being online (interacting with other players, and accessing all kinds of content which is not available offline).

That's not the case for most games, such as AC2. In this case, the requirement of being online is purely for the sake of verification, hence much easier for crackers to remove (as removing it won't affect the core gameplay).

 

Good point. Maybe they should stream some of the code for the actual game during gameplay. That would piss you off more, probably, but it would take a while to crack.

Someone will just monitor the packets, crack the data, and have a pirated version within a couple of weeks.  It doesn't stop piracy at all, and considering that the people who do pirate generally couldn't get the game if they had to pay for it a couple of weeks waiting is a minor inconvenience compared to never having it at all.



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Not even sure why this wa smae for the PC to begin with. Im not sure about any PC games sales because they arent posted on the site but they mustn't be anywhere near the console versions and its too easy to pirate them. Honestly Im surprised a lot of games are even made for the PC



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ChichiriMuyo said:
Zen - Wow has been pirated many, many times. Clone servers have been put up, allowing people to play their pirated copies 100% for free. You have to be incredibly naive to think the devs/publishers have a shot in hell at stoping piracy.

Miguel - I'll spare the attitude if you stop being lazy. All the information in the world at your finger tips and you want people to post sources on wide-spread information? Come on, dude.

I never thought of clone servers as piracy. In WoW, the gamecode is freeware. It's the community that you log in and pay for.

With AC2, perhaps, the code could be piratable, but maybe the boss interactions and phase changes would be streamed from their servers.

It might not stop piracy, but it would reduce it by a huge margin.

Also, it's extremely naive to believe that developers will never stop piracy. They could. The question is, how much hardship is the consumer willing to accept due to modern technology, and does it keep things nice and profitable?

One way to prevent piracy, is to send a ninja with every copy of the game sold, to watch you while you play. When you're not playing, the game will be handed back to the Ninja. Once you've beaten it, the Ninja destroys the game, and flys off into the night. You are never left alone with the game, and your computer blows up after it's over.

See, easy. I just stopped piracy. Problem is, not everyone is willing to live with a ninja, and ubisoft can't afford them.

Point is, there is a way to do anything. However, when preventing videogame piracy, publishers are limited by what is financially prudent, and also by what their customers are willing to put up with, in the name of playing their game. You get it?

Ubisoft is pushing the boundries on the latter.



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

AnthonyW86 said:
daggy said:

How about the third option: Make good games and sell what PC gamers want?

PC gaming has been increasing well, and right now there are more game developers on PC than in all consoles combined. Indie games (which are mostly single-player) are rising extremely fast on PC.

You dont really believe that do you? No matter how good a game is, if people can get it for free by pirating it most of them will.

And again this kind of system could eventually work. If they program PC version to get tiny parts of the game online during gameplay, it would be as piracy proof as WoW.

It doesn't matter. What developers want is their games to be successful, and if they have to allow dozens of millions of piratesin order to sell well, they'll do it. Do you really believe that Dragon Age would've sold better if it weren't on PC? Or Left 4 Dead? or...

I can tell you that if I were a developer, I would rather sell 100k and have my game pirated 100 millions, than sell none at all.



daggy said:
Twistedpixel said:
AnthonyW86 said:

I'm actually with Ubi on this 100%. I actually expected this kind of system to pop up years ago. Because if this works it could stop piracy, and that means finally more real PC games. Let's get some facts straight here:

Every single person with a capable gaming PC has an internet connection, so no problem there.
Games like WoW require you to be online to play aswell, and nobody complaints there.

Because let's face it, piracy has gone over the top. We al saw the estimates from bittorent from last year and that was just a fraction of the problem. Again don't blame this on Ubisoft, blame it on the people pirating games!

I really think we've reached a threshold here, and there are only two options left for alot of game developers: Get this or a similair system to try and stop piracy, or mostly abandon PC gaming.

Im with you and Ubisoft 100% on this.

The article gave conditions like gaming laptops where you may not have an internet connection. However thats BS because you'd burn through your battery in less than 90 minutes playing off battery and usually where theres a power source theres an internet connection. If not, how many people won't have a 3G mobile or better within a couple of years? So when you run inside to plug it in, you've got internet back to save woohoo!

The DRM here really is the placement of saved games online. That means you can pirate the game, break the authentication but it won't help because you can't save the game. So sure, you can argue about 'downloading to test' the games and be 100% right whether the intentions there to buy or not because it effectively renders an offline version as an unlimited demo.

I would personally prefer an unobtrusive DRM like this over CD-checks, cracks etc and if the piracy issue can be solved I can return to gaming full time on my PC because I will know all the games I could ever want will be day and date releases with consoles. I think anyone who wants a return to the glory days of PC gaming ought to support this. I want the PC games to actually have value, rather than just feeling like im a douche for actually paying for them when nobody else does.

This is not true. Nowadays there are more laptops being sold than desktop PCs, and the large majority of them don't have an internet connection ready at thand. It will add another explanation as to why AC2 will fail on PC in sales.

That would only mean that they won't be able to game on their laptop while on the go, and only if there really isn't any internet source nearby. And for those moments where they won't be able to play their game, sorry to say but tough luck. There are loads of 360 games you can't play if you only have a PS3, and vica versa.

And i for one won't be suprised if the game actually ends up selling better if the method works, or even funnier: console version sales going up because people who where planning on pirating the game for PC end up buying it lol.



daggy said:
AnthonyW86 said:
daggy said:

How about the third option: Make good games and sell what PC gamers want?

PC gaming has been increasing well, and right now there are more game developers on PC than in all consoles combined. Indie games (which are mostly single-player) are rising extremely fast on PC.

You dont really believe that do you? No matter how good a game is, if people can get it for free by pirating it most of them will.

And again this kind of system could eventually work. If they program PC version to get tiny parts of the game online during gameplay, it would be as piracy proof as WoW.

It doesn't matter. What developers want is their games to be successful, and if they have to allow dozens of millions of piratesin order to sell well, they'll do it. Do you really believe that Dragon Age would've sold better if it weren't on PC? Or Left 4 Dead? or...

I can tell you that if I were a developer, I would rather sell 100k and have my game pirated 100 millions, than sell none at all.

I think you don't get the point here, because it's very likely that a PC version can actually HURT overall sales. Don't you think it's very likely that alot of people will pirate the game for PC instead of buying it on a console? Looking at the total of millions of downloads don't you think that number is way higher than that of 100k copys actually sold?

 



AnthonyW86 said:
ChichiriMuyo said:

As has already been said, no one has proven there is a negative impact from piracy and the reason they haven't is because they can't.  If they could, they would.  Statistical data on piracy would be everywhere, the math would be testable, and the results would be reproducable.  The fact is, though, that piracy has a statistically insignificant impact on their business.  Most people who pirate would love it if they could afford to buy legitimate copies, they don't because they can't. 

Do take note, that they are also using this system to stop used sales.  What they are doing is fighting tooth and nail to show some kind of improved profit margin.  They do not care if you buy their game legitimately or not, they care if they get the money for it.  They hate used sales just as much as piracy and this is a mover to fight used sales just as much as it is to fight piracy. 

If they get their way they actually won't have any impact on pirates, since the game can be hacked to avoid the security altogether, but it will have a severe impact on people who buy games second-hand.  What they are really doing is squeezing the middle market, which will only have the effect of making used buyers in to new buyers or pirates.  This is not something that deserves praise.

Hell, the fact that people actually think this move is about piracy is laughable.  They can't kill piracy, they know it, and you'd have to be completely naive to think this will slow the pirates down even one bit.  This is about the used market, and you're going to miss it when it is gone.  Trust me.

Like i said you should have checked the bittorrent numbers that were released recently. For example: The game Prototype was downloaded more times than it was sold on PS3 and X360 COMBINED. And that's just Bittorrent, and only downloads since it could have been copied multiple times after.

So don't go saying it doesn't impact the bussiness because it does.

And i hounestly won't miss the used game market one second, since iv'e resold only a handfew of games in my entire life, and those i did were for like $10 to friends. And to be honest, nobody complaints if they pay like $10 to watch a movie of 2 hours in the theater, why complain when paying $40(PC average new price) for 10-20 of game entertainment?

 

On-topic: Ass said above, you probably need to online to access your savegame and maybe to save your game aswell. And again in future optimations games could be programmed to get parts of the game code online.

I've seen them, but they are simply meaningless.  Prototype could have been downloaded a billion times and that doesn't mean piracy had any impact on sales whatsoever.  The number of downloads doesn't have any correlation to the number of legitimate sales potentially lost. We can sit here all day pouring over Gamestop's numbers too, but at the end of the day we can't just say they sold X used games so the devs sold X (or Y) less copies than they could have.  That's simply not how it works.  Just look at MW2, which had more piracy than Prototype's legit sales and pirated sales combined.  Did that massive piracy stop it from being one of the biggest entertainment launches in history?  NOT AT ALL.  That's because success or failure has nothing to do with the avilability of pirated data.  If a company is going to be a success, they'll do so within the realities of the market, not by fighting it.

Piracy, as has been said all too many times, is by and large something done by people who would happily buy legitimate products if they could afford to.  They don't because they can't.  China and Brazil are places where piracy is really rampant, and the cost of a game in those countries is easily twice what it'd cost in the US despite people making only a 10th of what an American makes.  They can't afford it, so they don't buy it.  That's also the leading reason why the PC is the target of the vast majority of piracy - consoles are luxury goods and pirates typically can't afford luxuries (PCs are utility goods).  Any argument about how much harder it is to pirate on a non-PS3 console is coming from someone that has never actually involved themselves with piracy.  It's easy as hell, you just need to be able to afford the hardware in the first place and most pirates can't.

Also, given the fact that pirates can and have worked around the dial-in restriction before by setting up fake authentification servers, what is stopping anyone from settign up a fake save data server on their own PC once a pirate cracks Ubisoft's system?  Absolutely nothing, which is how much impact this will have on piracy.



You do not have the right to never be offended.