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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - SEGA says they probably won’t create more mature games for Wii, talks sales

jammy2211 on 03 January 2010
jarrod said:
jammy2211 said:
jarrod said:
boilermaker11 said:
@jarrod

You realize that your chart contains only three Wii games, one of which sold over a million, which SEVERELY skews your "average". As opposed to 6 different games on the PS3/360.

Similar to saying....Konami games on the PS3 have an average of selling 3.5M even though it's more like 1.5M, but MGS4 severely skews it, and the fact that there haven't been that many Konami games on the system meeting all the criteria.

I don't think the thread got owned...just yet

If Kojima came out and said "well MGS4 didn't sell as well as we wanted, we're going to stop making MGS games for PS3 since we think the MGS audience is buying Wii60 games" then you might have a point.

Constantione Hantzopowhatever said their M-rated Wii games didn't do well enough to warrant more similar content.  How can anyone take that seriously when it's painfully clear that their M-rated HD games have done appreciable worse, and yet those machines are still getting M-rated releases?  Nevermind the insane fucking disparity in budget, promotion, positioning and advertising between something like Condemned 2 or Yakuza 3 ($500-700k for just localization?!) and an outsourced HotD collection?  I mean seriously?

 The difference is the PS360 have a proven market for this sort of content, so SEGA have drawn a different conclusion for why their M-rated stuff struggled to sell (Pretty much cause non of those games were any good). The Wii side of things however is a bit more iffy, with really no inspiring successes outside of Resident Evil (Which is a pretty huge franchise with films et all). 

 I don't really get the Wii M-rated market, it must exsist as any console with that size userbase must have a market for them, I'm guessing the main problem is anyone interested in those games isn't really bothered about buying them for a Wii, as chances are they've got a PS360.

Red Steel also.  And Call of Duty.  These are all M-rated million sellers on Wii, and comparably low budget to most HD efforts.  Then again, this reeks of the same old story of "doesn't count" when it comes to Wii for some reason.

The reason why we haven't seen an M-rated Wii success story on level with say MW2 or GTA4 is pretty simple... we haven't seen a comparable developer effort.  3rd parties have gotten out of Wii exactly what they've put in, and that's the cold hard truth.

 I tend to agree, but I'm not totally convinced making and marketing an M-Rated Wii exclusive comparable to MW2 or GTA4 is really viable. The finances just don't add up, and no company can really expect their effort to outsell Call of Duty, that brand name is just too strong to set a realistic target above it.

 I think it's about striking a balance, the game needs to stand out by itself but also have a reason to spread via word of mouth. No M-Rated Wii game is going to make it's money back off a $10 million marketing campaign, but that's not to say it should be put out with absolutely no resources whatsoever, a la Dead Space.

 All we can do is wait and see what the next offerings show sales-wise I guess, Red Steel 2 to me is a really interesting one. Looking at sales of most games since I really can't believe it'll outsell the original, despite probably being a far superior game. That wouldn't make sense though :/.



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Galaki on 03 January 2010

^^^ someone needs to put jarrod's "charts" into a summary and post in the news section.
And forward to SEGA.



Pre-order limited edition Blue Slime Condoms

johnsobas on 03 January 2010

Sega, the same people who made HOTD 2&3 (1 million+), HOTD overkill (470k), ghost squad (500k+) are saying that because of Dead space extraction games like that aren't gonna sell on wii? wtf?



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

MaxwellGT2000 on 03 January 2010
Galaki said:

^^^ someone needs to put jarrod's "charts" into a summary and post in the news section.
And forward to SEGA.

lol the issue  being the guy "speaking as SEGA" has really no pull or say, in fact he directs their pretty crap games like Golden Axe PS3/360 and Iron Man the movie game, the problem is people are taking this seriously as its coming from the head of SEGA, this is like a gamestop cashier telling you that Gamestop was looking to stop selling used games based on how new sales are rising... heh heh I made a funny.



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

DaBuddahN on 03 January 2010
MaxwellGT2000 said:
jarrod said:
DaBuddahN said:
PhantomLink said:
Mr Khan said:
Xoj said:
^ thats a lot of cherry picking.

What do you mean? It's a straight across comparison. M-rated SEGA PS3 and/or 360 games vs. M-rated SEGA Wii games.

I think he miss the M-rated part.

This thread is probably dead but I can't believe that people do not understand that not all the games are mainstream.

 

No. It's just that some of the bigger games in his list have't released in NA or Others, while the biggest Wii Mature seller, has released in JP, NA and Others. So it's obvious it will have more sales. For example, Bayonetta and Yakuza have not released in NA or Others, I expect a good 300k copies sold for each. 

Since there are only two high selling Wii games in Jarrods list, it's obvious the "average" or "mean" will be high! It's basic math.

The list will be much more interesting when all games are released on all territories.  

Yakuza 3 won't come even close to 300k in western territories.  Bayonetta will do better than 300k imo, but still move less than a million worldwide.

In fairness though, here's the number of markets released so far for each of the games...

3 territories

  • Condemned: Criminal Origins (360)
  • The House of the Dead 2 & 3 Return (Wii)
  • The House of the Dead Overkill (Wii)

2 territories

  • Condemned 2: Bloodshot (PS360)
  • Golden Axe: Beast Rider (PS360)
  • MadWorld (Wii)
  • Stormrise (PS360)
  • The Club (PS360)
  • Viking: Battle for Asgard (PS360)

1 territory

  • Bayonetta (PS360)
  • Yakuza 3 (PS3)

 

...going off this idea, if we look at only sales for NA/EU (which I guess makes more sense given this producer is making games for pretty much just those markets)...

 

The House of the Dead 2 &3 Return (Wii) 1,100,000
The House of the Dead Overkill (Wii) 470,000
Condemned 2: Bloodshot (360) 470,000
Condemned: Criminal Origins (360) 460,000
Viking: Battle for Asgard (360) 410,000
MadWorld (Wii) 370,000
Condemned 2: Bloodshot (PS3) 310,000
Viking: Battle for Asgard (PS3) 280,000
The Club (360) 240,000
The Club (PS3) 150,000
Golden Axe: Beast Rider (360) 120,000
Golden Axe: Beast Rider (PS3) 80,000
Stormrise (360) 50,000
Stormrise (PS3) 50,000


Average sales per console...

Wii: 647,000
360: 292,000
PS3: 174,000

 

...wow.  That extra market sure was the tipping point, huh? ;)

The final nail in the coffin so it seems, thanks for those figures.

And I agree developers get what they put into the game, you don't really see Wii games grace the front cover (which is paid for not given) of game magazines, nor do you see more than a few commercials late at night on channels like Adult Swim and Comedy Central, thats just not real marketing, SEGA came close with doing some nice commercials on WWE events, and Activision did well finally marketing World at War Wii about a month after the game released and it slow burned to over a million from there.

No, this is no final nail is any coffin. Like it was pointed out before, since the number of games jarrod is listing is small (2) for the Wii, the average is going to be very high! It's basic mathematics. The fact that they PS3 and 360 can average 450k copies between 8 different titles, all which haven't been released in all territories is great! 

To people who still have difficulty understanding what I'm saying... what average is bigger? 10/2 or 20/5?

Jarrod's averages are skewed. =/ It's like if he put all the other mature titles that have bombed on the Wii, the avergae would go down. Although, you might have RE4 to counter that.



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MRFENIX on 03 January 2010

I don't like this. I was hoping for some more good support from sega.



alfredofroylan on 03 January 2010
MRFENIX said:
I don't like this. I was hoping for some more good support from sega.

Valkyria Chronicles is their best title this generation in my opinion and: 1) It's not made by Sega 2) It's not a "Mature" title. I don't care if they're M, T or E Sega needs to do good games not crappy things.



jammy2211 on 03 January 2010
DaBuddahN said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
jarrod said:
DaBuddahN said:
PhantomLink said:
Mr Khan said:
Xoj said:
^ thats a lot of cherry picking.

What do you mean? It's a straight across comparison. M-rated SEGA PS3 and/or 360 games vs. M-rated SEGA Wii games.

I think he miss the M-rated part.

This thread is probably dead but I can't believe that people do not understand that not all the games are mainstream.

 

No. It's just that some of the bigger games in his list have't released in NA or Others, while the biggest Wii Mature seller, has released in JP, NA and Others. So it's obvious it will have more sales. For example, Bayonetta and Yakuza have not released in NA or Others, I expect a good 300k copies sold for each. 

Since there are only two high selling Wii games in Jarrods list, it's obvious the "average" or "mean" will be high! It's basic math.

The list will be much more interesting when all games are released on all territories.  

Yakuza 3 won't come even close to 300k in western territories.  Bayonetta will do better than 300k imo, but still move less than a million worldwide.

In fairness though, here's the number of markets released so far for each of the games...

3 territories

  • Condemned: Criminal Origins (360)
  • The House of the Dead 2 & 3 Return (Wii)
  • The House of the Dead Overkill (Wii)

2 territories

  • Condemned 2: Bloodshot (PS360)
  • Golden Axe: Beast Rider (PS360)
  • MadWorld (Wii)
  • Stormrise (PS360)
  • The Club (PS360)
  • Viking: Battle for Asgard (PS360)

1 territory

  • Bayonetta (PS360)
  • Yakuza 3 (PS3)

 

...going off this idea, if we look at only sales for NA/EU (which I guess makes more sense given this producer is making games for pretty much just those markets)...

 

The House of the Dead 2 &3 Return (Wii) 1,100,000
The House of the Dead Overkill (Wii) 470,000
Condemned 2: Bloodshot (360) 470,000
Condemned: Criminal Origins (360) 460,000
Viking: Battle for Asgard (360) 410,000
MadWorld (Wii) 370,000
Condemned 2: Bloodshot (PS3) 310,000
Viking: Battle for Asgard (PS3) 280,000
The Club (360) 240,000
The Club (PS3) 150,000
Golden Axe: Beast Rider (360) 120,000
Golden Axe: Beast Rider (PS3) 80,000
Stormrise (360) 50,000
Stormrise (PS3) 50,000


Average sales per console...

Wii: 647,000
360: 292,000
PS3: 174,000

 

...wow.  That extra market sure was the tipping point, huh? ;)

The final nail in the coffin so it seems, thanks for those figures.

And I agree developers get what they put into the game, you don't really see Wii games grace the front cover (which is paid for not given) of game magazines, nor do you see more than a few commercials late at night on channels like Adult Swim and Comedy Central, thats just not real marketing, SEGA came close with doing some nice commercials on WWE events, and Activision did well finally marketing World at War Wii about a month after the game released and it slow burned to over a million from there.

No, this is no final nail is any coffin. Like it was pointed out before, since the number of games jarrod is listing is small (2) for the Wii, the average is going to be very high! It's basic mathematics. The fact that they PS3 and 360 can average 450k copies between 8 different titles, all which haven't been released in all territories is great! 

To people who still have difficulty understanding what I'm saying... what average is bigger? 10/2 or 20/5?

Jarrod's averages are skewed. =/ It's like if he put all the other mature titles that have bombed on the Wii, the avergae would go down. Although, you might have RE4 to counter that.

 It's easier just to say all of SEGA HD games were utter trash, other then Condemned. I still find it amazing how well Viking's did lol. 

 Actually, The Club was pretty fun too. Definitely wasn't worth full price though.



MaxwellGT2000 on 03 January 2010
DaBuddahN said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
jarrod said:
DaBuddahN said:
PhantomLink said:
Mr Khan said:
Xoj said:
^ thats a lot of cherry picking.

What do you mean? It's a straight across comparison. M-rated SEGA PS3 and/or 360 games vs. M-rated SEGA Wii games.

I think he miss the M-rated part.

This thread is probably dead but I can't believe that people do not understand that not all the games are mainstream.

 

No. It's just that some of the bigger games in his list have't released in NA or Others, while the biggest Wii Mature seller, has released in JP, NA and Others. So it's obvious it will have more sales. For example, Bayonetta and Yakuza have not released in NA or Others, I expect a good 300k copies sold for each. 

Since there are only two high selling Wii games in Jarrods list, it's obvious the "average" or "mean" will be high! It's basic math.

The list will be much more interesting when all games are released on all territories.  

Yakuza 3 won't come even close to 300k in western territories.  Bayonetta will do better than 300k imo, but still move less than a million worldwide.

In fairness though, here's the number of markets released so far for each of the games...

3 territories

  • Condemned: Criminal Origins (360)
  • The House of the Dead 2 & 3 Return (Wii)
  • The House of the Dead Overkill (Wii)

2 territories

  • Condemned 2: Bloodshot (PS360)
  • Golden Axe: Beast Rider (PS360)
  • MadWorld (Wii)
  • Stormrise (PS360)
  • The Club (PS360)
  • Viking: Battle for Asgard (PS360)

1 territory

  • Bayonetta (PS360)
  • Yakuza 3 (PS3)

 

...going off this idea, if we look at only sales for NA/EU (which I guess makes more sense given this producer is making games for pretty much just those markets)...

 

The House of the Dead 2 &3 Return (Wii) 1,100,000
The House of the Dead Overkill (Wii) 470,000
Condemned 2: Bloodshot (360) 470,000
Condemned: Criminal Origins (360) 460,000
Viking: Battle for Asgard (360) 410,000
MadWorld (Wii) 370,000
Condemned 2: Bloodshot (PS3) 310,000
Viking: Battle for Asgard (PS3) 280,000
The Club (360) 240,000
The Club (PS3) 150,000
Golden Axe: Beast Rider (360) 120,000
Golden Axe: Beast Rider (PS3) 80,000
Stormrise (360) 50,000
Stormrise (PS3) 50,000


Average sales per console...

Wii: 647,000
360: 292,000
PS3: 174,000

 

...wow.  That extra market sure was the tipping point, huh? ;)

The final nail in the coffin so it seems, thanks for those figures.

And I agree developers get what they put into the game, you don't really see Wii games grace the front cover (which is paid for not given) of game magazines, nor do you see more than a few commercials late at night on channels like Adult Swim and Comedy Central, thats just not real marketing, SEGA came close with doing some nice commercials on WWE events, and Activision did well finally marketing World at War Wii about a month after the game released and it slow burned to over a million from there.

No, this is no final nail is any coffin. Like it was pointed out before, since the number of games jarrod is listing is small (2) for the Wii, the average is going to be very high! It's basic mathematics. The fact that they PS3 and 360 can average 450k copies between 8 different titles, all which haven't been released in all territories is great! 

To people who still have difficulty understanding what I'm saying... what average is bigger? 10/2 or 20/5?

Jarrod's averages are skewed. =/ It's like if he put all the other mature titles that have bombed on the Wii, the avergae would go down. Although, you might have RE4 to counter that.

Actually you said 2... yeah you didn't even read it did you? And the point of the argument there is that M rated games don't sell on Wii and if the Wii games that are there DO sell, while the PS3/360 games DONT... its just proving that M rated games has the potential to not sell on PS3/360 just as much as the Wii, and the fact of the matter is SEGA talked about moving to another console because those M rated games that didn't break even on PS3/360 was hurting them as a business.  So really I don't see your leg to stand on here.



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

ClaudeLv250 on 03 January 2010

People are actually arguing against that pwnage? It's not like he made it up or applied asinine qualifiers like what happens in most of these arguments, it's just a cold hard truth that Sega's M rated Wii efforts outperform their HD ones on average.



Tag - "No trolling on my watch!"