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Forums - Sales Discussion - Japan First Day Sales 12/10 (Tales of Graces and other games)

Majin-Tenshinhan on 11 December 2009
darthdevidem01 said:
wow you guys are brutal towards trestres!

I was a while back, but I don't remember why.

Nowadays I try not to reply to anything he says because I know I'll just end up being rude. That's why I try to stress very hard that when I say something about trestres, I really don't mean any offense.



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dcease on 11 December 2009
trestres said:
bardicverse said:
Tres - Not all PS3 games are 60, only a few AAA are, which cost more into the 30 mil range to develop. As for Wii games, most sell for 50 as well. $50 is the average for all games, cross platform. Don't believe me? Go to your retailers nearby and have a look at the shelf price.

You really should just shut your mouth instead of trying to accuse people when you don't have any idea what you're talking about. I've worked in the industry since 98, dealt with people on many different levels and have attended industry conferences focused on the business perspective side of things for years now.

Check the numbers, they don't lie. You should really read up on how percentages of a game sale are broken up.

People around here are getting sick of your crap. Shape up or shut up.

Who accused who? You accused me of trolling and justified it by lying. The average Wii game is not 50$, you are outright lying there. The average HD game is 10$~ more expensive than a Wii game, therefore the revenue a publisher gets back is around 10$ more.

Also, Nintendo takes a bigger chunk of the money for every copy sold than Sony or MS do. You know you are not spelling the truth, that's why you resort to insults and twist things. I'm very disappointed, I expected better from a guy who works in the industry.

Unfortunately, I won't shut up.

I invite you to go look it up yourself, Tres. Go to the store and look at the average price of games. Hell, even TP is still selling for $50, and that game is 3 years old now.

Also, did you not read about Nintendo reducing its fees in 2007? They were since positioned in between MS and Sony, with MS taking a larger chunk out. Do you have any proof otherwise, or will you insist that everyone should trust what you say?

By the way, that wasn't an insult, that's how business rolls. Insults woud have been far worse. As for twists, how many years have you worked within the industry to know how the core of it works? Without that, you can't say "LIES!" and not prove it a lie, therefore, you are insulting my integrity.

FYI, there's a SLEW of wireless connections here on multiple IPs, and I have a ton of email accounts.

 



Majin-Tenshinhan on 11 December 2009

Dude... Won't posting from an alt account net you a far longer ban?



kopstudent89 on 11 December 2009

True, Trestres didnt really say anything wrong, if anything he makes a lot more sense than most. Yeah he's negative sometimes, but to be honest people make it seem that nothing on the Wii can go wrong, and they can never be blamed, i understad how he feels



dcease on 11 December 2009
Majin-Tenshinhan said:
Dude... Won't posting from an alt account net you a far longer ban?

Not when one is wrongly banned without warning. I won't derail the thread in the process.



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Majin-Tenshinhan on 11 December 2009
dcease said:
Majin-Tenshinhan said:
Dude... Won't posting from an alt account net you a far longer ban?

Not when one is wrongly banned without warning. I won't derail the thread in the process.

Well, if you say so. I hope you're right ^^



patjuan32 on 11 December 2009

Tales of Grace sold like it did because it had to compete with New Super Mario Bros. There are only there games developed in Japan that can compete with a 2D mario game, Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, and Pokemon. Any other game will be slaughtered. Namco picked a bad time to release Tales of Grace.



If Nintendo is successful at the moment, it’s because they are good, and I cannot blame them for that. What we should do is try to be just as good.----Laurent Benadiba

 

mrstickball on 11 December 2009

Great for Modern Warfare 2, personally disappointing for Tales of Graces. Its a mainline Tales game, yet will not be anywhere close to Vesperia (X360+PS3)



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

outlawauron on 11 December 2009
bardicverse said:
starterman1989 said:
bardicverse said:
woopah said:
I thought over 100k was good .....

No, its only good when its for the PS3 apparently, as ToV launch had shown. If its for the Wii, its a major bomb, despite costing less than half the production costs of the PS3 game. It takes people like Tres to troll the topic and make multiple posts to make sure people see it this way, weren't you aware?

Here's an interesting tidbit - Even if ToG reaches only 250k, it will still be more profitable to have developed than ToV on the HD systems in Japan. Thus, the dev will be more enticed to bring more Tales games to the Wii than the HD systems.

Interesting statement... Any data to back it up? Development cost, maybe? Retailer cut, platform holder royalty, promotion fee, or revenue calculation? Seems like you know quite a bit. *_*

Should we roll out the generic profit map again? Average Wii development is 6.5 mil dollars. Average HD development is 18 mil dollars.

After retailer cut, average $50 game, publisher receives roughly 40, after cost return for manufacturing, advertising, etc, roughly $20 is left for profit.

Depending on the contract, the developer is given money ahead of time to produce the game. When X amount of sales are made, they then take in profit. Generally this number is around 500k units in basic markets. So, until the game hits that agreed upon number, the actual dev doesn't get any royalty money. So, by that, no Tales game has ever provided a royalty to the developer yet.

Backtracking, we have this concept of $20 profit to the publisher per game sold, and an investment of 7 mil to develop a Wii game and 18 mil for a PS3 game.

Current numbers put ToV at 370k roughly. 370x20 =   $7,400,000

Current numbers put ToS at 250k roughly. 250x20 = $5,000,000

Granted, this is a ballpark figure, as both games operate at a loss which no publisher would stand for, but the general ballpark puts ToS closer to its break-even/profit line than ToV does. 

There is a flex point to the development costs, naturally, as party games and non AAA titles tend to run cheaper on all systems. AAA games on Wii can reach 15 mil and PS3 AAA games can escalate to 30-60 mil.

Edit- So, some people are stating 700k for Tov, for WW, where I was specifically talking about Japan here. Yet, do the same math = 700k x20 = $14 mil , still shy of the average production cost/profit margin for a HD game.

There is alot of false assumptions in this post. (Happy MM?) Games are more expensive in Japan, and Vesperia MSRP'd for over $70. Not only that, but your knowledge of the two games is terrible. It's quite obvious that Tales of Graces has had tons of development time put into the title and lots of work. Your averages mean nothing, especially considering some that think Graces looks better than Vesperia. (which I disagree with, but I disgress)



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Majin-Tenshinhan on 11 December 2009
patjuan32 said:
Tales of Grace sold like it did because it had to compete with New Super Mario Bros. There are only there games developed in Japan that can compete with a 2D mario game, Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, and Pokemon. Any other game will be slaughtered. Namco picked a bad time to release Tales of Grace.

I think Graces will do fine, but you are right about the release timing - 1 week after NSMBWii, 1 week before FF13. Not the best release date imaginable.