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Forums - General Discussion - Would you want your country defending America?

Well speaking as an American I would love if some of our allies would join in to help us fight off oppression and gain back our freedom.

But if I were to speak on a international view, only reason i could see to help America is for the economic support it provides. However, I wouldn't go in to help stop oppression because America wasn't there from the beginning when Nazi Germany took over Europe. Nor where they ever there when atrocities were happening in Africa, South America, Asia, etc (although we did help contribute to it). Nor with their policies of arrogance and "policing" the world would I think it necessary to help them out.

Really America has obtained a bad reputation of having a superiority complex to other countries and its hard to imagine I'd want to help that which probably wouldn't help us given the scenario. Nor would I want to make an enemy of China especially if they are good enough to beat America. However, the idealist in me would probably overrule as no one deserves to suffer under a totalitarian government. Even though America wouldn't do the same for others, if I were a non-citizen, I would feel obligated to do the right thing. Although peaceful negotiations first before all out attack. A wise man once said, "You can't obtain peace through war. Only through understanding"- Einstein. Maybe if America knew that from the beginning we would have been better off. Maybe the world would have been better off.



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Taiwan (...) would want the hell out.


Ummm... what?



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SamuelRSmith said:
Kasz216 said:
Rath said:
Kasz216 said:
Rath said:
@Kasz.

http://www.un.org/en/peacekeeping/contributors/2007/march07_2.pdf

Anyway, heaps of South America is pro-China due to the current wave of socialism down there.

Being pro china and having enough troops there to inavade the US are too different things.

I meant as a launching base for any invasion. A purely naval attempt would be doomed to failure.

Which is what i'm saying.  I don't think the US would ever allow that many Chinese troops to enter South America even before declerations of hostility.

The chinese would probably need at least 3 million troops in south America to pull it off...  possibly more when you consider then massive air and missle advantages the US would hold.

Not to mention... even if they did got that way.  They'd have to go through texas first... which is about the last place you'd want to start.

It's got a lot of Military bases, and even if taken is full of the people who are least likely to take being occupied well... There are estimates that there are more guns in the state then there are people.  It's the one place in America where you'd have guranteed "house to house" fighting.

 

An Assault from Africa makes more sense because, while more fortified if you could crush the east coast you've taken out a LOT of power right away and a lot of east coast resources and less likely to deal with guerrilla warfare.

By launching from Africa, NATO forces could easily circle the forces, with Americans coming in from the west, and Europeans from the East.

That doesn't sound like a situation that the Chinese navy would want to get itself into.

With Nato support.  Since this is "Should your country help after the US was invaded" i'm talking about after an invasion.



mrstickball said:
SamuelRSmith said:
Kasz216 said:
Rath said:
Kasz216 said:
Rath said:
@Kasz.

http://www.un.org/en/peacekeeping/contributors/2007/march07_2.pdf

Anyway, heaps of South America is pro-China due to the current wave of socialism down there.

Being pro china and having enough troops there to inavade the US are too different things.

I meant as a launching base for any invasion. A purely naval attempt would be doomed to failure.

Which is what i'm saying.  I don't think the US would ever allow that many Chinese troops to enter South America even before declerations of hostility.

The chinese would probably need at least 3 million troops in south America to pull it off...  possibly more when you consider then massive air and missle advantages the US would hold.

Not to mention... even if they did got that way.  They'd have to go through texas first... which is about the last place you'd want to start.

It's got a lot of Military bases, and even if taken is full of the people who are least likely to take being occupied well... There are estimates that there are more guns in the state then there are people.  It's the one place in America where you'd have guranteed "house to house" fighting.

 

An Assault from Africa makes more sense because, while more fortified if you could crush the east coast you've taken out a LOT of power right away and a lot of east coast resources and less likely to deal with guerrilla warfare.

By launching from Africa, NATO forces could easily circle the forces, with Americans coming in from the west, and Europeans from the East.

That doesn't sound like a situation that the Chinese navy would want to get itself into.

Africa would be a horrible staging ground - too much ocean to cover. Without carriers, a Chinese invasion from Africa would be easily beaten as we have just too much naval capacity.

The only way you could do it would be the Red Dawn way - come in from Mexico and launch a 3-pronged assault via the CA and TX borders, and a diversionary attack from Cuba into FL and/or the East Coast. At such ranges, Chinese forces would have an advantage, as they have a very strong stockpile of aircraft - they may be old (lots of Mig-21 copies), but they could easily swarm the US.

The thing about the US is that our anti-air is really tied up in air superiority. Despite our technological advantages, our SAM systems are pretty bad compared to Russian and Chinese system. The best we have are patriots which are good, but compared to S-300's, they may be on par if we're lucky. Remember 9/11? Guess what we rolled out - Hummers with stingers. You think that'd stop a serious air threat.

If America was mobilized, you'd have to have a force of 7-10 million troops to pose a serious threat to the US, assuming that a country could field it. Texas would be horrible, as their national guard could probably invade Mexico and win.

Of course, everything is hypothetical. It would take so many failures by the US, South America, and our East Asian interests to cause an invasion. But that *does* seem like a plausible scenario - China invades Korea, Japan and Taiwan then comes for the US next. That could be a possible scenario.

I'd guess by the time they invaded they'd have carriers.   I mean, as you said it'd probably take 7-10 million troops.  Currently the Chinese army is under 5 million... and mostley domestic to my knowlede.  Meaning they'd probably need to come up with 5-10 million more troops.




stof said:
Alright, here's my insane hypothetical two cents on the China scenario. If China really decided to push themselves outwards and start annexing other countries, I'd imagine they'd want to go northwest instead and fight Russia for some of the Stans first. That's probably the only War they could fight without drawing in the whole world against them.

I can't imagine too many other nations eager to sign up against either of those countries for the sake of a Stan, not to mention that once begun, Russia wouldn't exactly have the moral high ground either, so international judgments of right and wrong might fall on both sides.

However, if China finds themselves in a major military engagement anywhere in the world, I think they'd quite quickly have larger problems to deal with in their own borders. Tibet, Xinjiang and several ethnic groups we're not even familliar with
Would probably begin fresh and invigorated pushes against the government, and Taiwan and HongKong would want the hell out.

Not to mention there's a whoppingly large middle class now that's a bit more interested in their standard of living than the size of their borders. Unprovoked military aggression by China on a major scale could even be the tipping point to finally bring the people against their government.

At least, I'd like to think it would.

I agree there... they could get some ok technology and armarments attacking Russia as well.

 

The rest... i'm not so sure.  Would the middle class be effected much by the war?  You look at the US... and we haven't been hit at all by the two wars we've been in.

 



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Pyro as Bill said:
The US also stopped Russia from taking the rest of Europe for itself.

Its never been proven that Russia's desire was to take over Europe. Sure, Imo, they wanted to expand a bit but I still think future safety was their main motive and understandable motive.



Being an American, I know we do a lot of things wrong. It isn't the people though, it's our government that feels the need to get involved with everything. That being said, we have helped out so many people in our lifetimes, with getting involved in wars, restoring other country's peace, and helping people recover from natural disasters, I would only hope when we have a time in need people would help us.



Kasz216 said:
stof said:
Alright, here's my insane hypothetical two cents on the China scenario. If China really decided to push themselves outwards and start annexing other countries, I'd imagine they'd want to go northwest instead and fight Russia for some of the Stans first. That's probably the only War they could fight without drawing in the whole world against them.

I can't imagine too many other nations eager to sign up against either of those countries for the sake of a Stan, not to mention that once begun, Russia wouldn't exactly have the moral high ground either, so international judgments of right and wrong might fall on both sides.

However, if China finds themselves in a major military engagement anywhere in the world, I think they'd quite quickly have larger problems to deal with in their own borders. Tibet, Xinjiang and several ethnic groups we're not even familliar with
Would probably begin fresh and invigorated pushes against the government, and Taiwan and HongKong would want the hell out.

Not to mention there's a whoppingly large middle class now that's a bit more interested in their standard of living than the size of their borders. Unprovoked military aggression by China on a major scale could even be the tipping point to finally bring the people against their government.

At least, I'd like to think it would.

I agree there... they could get some ok technology and armarments attacking Russia as well.

 

The rest... i'm not so sure.  Would the middle class be effected much by the war?  You look at the US... and we haven't been hit at all by the two wars we've been in.

 

I should have tempered the "anywhere in the world" statement. The US hasn't been effected that much because the war is so distant. But an invasion of Mongolia and Kazakstan would definitely bring the country in to direct conflict with Russia. The U.S. never had to worry about the Republican guard rolling it's tanks through their neighborhood. Two major military powers that boarder each other would be monstrous for all involved.

 

Of course, there'd be the hope that both countries would want to avoid that and would merely cut up the stans and Mongolia to their liking like Korea. Infact, if there's another major war in our lifetime, I'm farily certain it will end up with the Stans mostly occupied.



I'm a mod, come to me if there's mod'n to do. 

Chrizum is the best thing to happen to the internet, Period.

Serves me right for challenging his sales predictions!

Bet with dsisister44: Red Steel 2 will sell 1 million within it's first 365 days of sales.

stof said:
Kasz216 said:
stof said:
Alright, here's my insane hypothetical two cents on the China scenario. If China really decided to push themselves outwards and start annexing other countries, I'd imagine they'd want to go northwest instead and fight Russia for some of the Stans first. That's probably the only War they could fight without drawing in the whole world against them.

I can't imagine too many other nations eager to sign up against either of those countries for the sake of a Stan, not to mention that once begun, Russia wouldn't exactly have the moral high ground either, so international judgments of right and wrong might fall on both sides.

However, if China finds themselves in a major military engagement anywhere in the world, I think they'd quite quickly have larger problems to deal with in their own borders. Tibet, Xinjiang and several ethnic groups we're not even familliar with
Would probably begin fresh and invigorated pushes against the government, and Taiwan and HongKong would want the hell out.

Not to mention there's a whoppingly large middle class now that's a bit more interested in their standard of living than the size of their borders. Unprovoked military aggression by China on a major scale could even be the tipping point to finally bring the people against their government.

At least, I'd like to think it would.

I agree there... they could get some ok technology and armarments attacking Russia as well.

 

The rest... i'm not so sure.  Would the middle class be effected much by the war?  You look at the US... and we haven't been hit at all by the two wars we've been in.

 

I should have tempered the "anywhere in the world" statement. The US hasn't been effected that much because the war is so distant. But an invasion of Mongolia and Kazakstan would definitely bring the country in to direct conflict with Russia. The U.S. never had to worry about the Republican guard rolling it's tanks through their neighborhood. Two major military powers that boarder each other would be monstrous for all involved.

 

Of course, there'd be the hope that both countries would want to avoid that and would merely cut up the stans and Mongolia to their liking like Korea. Infact, if there's another major war in our lifetime, I'm farily certain it will end up with the Stans mostly occupied.

Isn't the Chinese middle class pretty much located only in the south eastern area of China?



Yeah, but they're still well within the range of the Russian airforce, Navy and missiles. Also they'd still see much more pronounced impacts of the war such as a flood of refugees and a lot of economic upheaval. And, like I said, there are many parts of China where the people aren't too happy with China. Having the country's army occupied with something like that would really be their opportunity to push for independence.



I'm a mod, come to me if there's mod'n to do. 

Chrizum is the best thing to happen to the internet, Period.

Serves me right for challenging his sales predictions!

Bet with dsisister44: Red Steel 2 will sell 1 million within it's first 365 days of sales.