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Forums - Sony Discussion - President of Gearbox questions Valves lack of PS3 support.

NJ5 said:

Yeah because everyone knows running a business is all about fun, right?

Well kinda actually, if I didn't have fun doing my job I would probably look for another one.



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Asmo said:
NJ5 said:

Yeah because everyone knows running a business is all about fun, right?

Well kinda actually, if I didn't have fun doing my job I would probably look for another one.

I bet you wouldn't switch before doing some calculations on the cost of switching jobs, though...

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

Well, valve has some good games but seriously ps3 doesnt need those games unless they realese something big that i doubt i like storyline games like mgs4 not just killing aliens without reason so yea we dont need valve



idk the one i actually wanted is on ps3, which is portal. left 4 dead would be aight but not really needed. they dont make too many games im really interested in.



Valve is primarily a PC developer. 360 games are easier to port than PS3 games. Why is this even a discussion?

And lol at the Sony fanboys claiming they don't want Valve games.



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heruamon said:
Reasonable said:
heruamon said:
@ Reasonable....

I agree with 100% of your post. Wrt to Valve's comments on the PS3...I think they are uncalled for, but one thing I will point out is the continuing nagging that Valve has to deal with on why they don't support the PS3. NO OTHER developer has faced this much heat...There have been muliple PS3 developers who have made statements like this: "This game could only be made on the PS3,”...so while there's no mention of the 360 or Wii, the statements are cheered by Sony fans as YEAH...it's the power of the Cell and BRD...heck, they even plugged it in the Metal Gear. It seems like all of Pitchford's pandering to PS3 fans didn't work...sales numbers rarely lie.

Yeah, Valve have faced a real grilling, plus the strange outbursts from Gearbox, which I think has made them efensive over their position.  I think Gabe made some unfortunate comments early on, reagrding how the architecture of PS3 was nothing but a pain for him and Valve (which I can understand to an extent, as Valve are sitting on a PC centric engine).  Since then, and particularly as PS3 install base has grown, the question of 'why not?' has grown in urgency with media.

I think they should simply say our engine doesn't support PS3 well enough, we have no plans to spend the money to correct that right now, nor do we have the desire, our primary focus is PC with 360 as an profitable side line, and that's the end of it.

Without a doubt...the gaming industry is a wasteland at this point...look at nearly every publishers reporting a loss...some very massive like EA today, and Activision-Blizzard being one of the few exceptions (for whatever reason).  I think it's absolutely crazy to have Valve invest tons of resources into a platform that will not deliver a higher ROI then they are already getting from the PC/360.  Sure, they might make money, but the question is one of ROI...You fully understand this, at least based on your posting history, but so many others on this site don't.  If Valve makes $0.25 on every dollar invested in the PC/360...and they would only get $0.15 on extending to the PS3...what sense does it make to invest limited resouces to expand to that system?  Why not just make 2 PC/360 games a year and get better return on your dollar? 

Thing is, we don't know how much extra it's going to cost them to develop for three platforms at once (PC,360,PS3). We do know that a delayed port is going to be more expensive than porting code over through a simultaneous planned release. Even if a PS3 version sells a lot less, your ROI can STILL increase with a triple plat release IF the cost of porting to the PS3 is cheap enough. I'll illustrate a hypothetical example of what I mean...

Let's say Company A develops Game X for PC (Steam), 360 and PS3.

Let's say it costs them say $10m to develop for PC/360 and $2m extra to develop for PC/360/PS3 (assuming that it's going to be cheap to simultaneously release on the PS3. Say only 20% more cost in this example).

Let's say the PC/360 versions gives them $40m revenue. And the PS3 version gives them $10m revenue (so PC/360 revenue beat PS3 revenues at a 4:1 ratio).

The ROI for PC/360 would be a ratio of 4:1. The ROI for porting the code to PS3 also would be 5:1 (despite the fact that the PS3 version sold a lot less).

In this kind of scenario, triple plat development would be worth your while.

What we do know though is that PC to 360 porting is cheaper than PS3 porting. By porting the PC code to 360, it's easy easy money for Valve. Definitely increases their ROI even after EA takes a huge chunk of the pie. If it didn't increase their ROI to do 360 releases, I'm sure Valve would be happy to stay Steam exclusive after all.

 



loves2splooge said:
  ---snipped----

Thing is, we don't know how much extra it's going to cost them to develop for three platforms at once (PC,360,PS3). We do know that a delayed port is going to be more expensive than porting code over through a simultaneous planned release. Even if a PS3 version sells a lot less, your ROI can STILL increase with a triple plat release IF the cost of porting to the PS3 is cheap enough. I'll illustrate a hypothetical example of what I mean...

Let's say Company A develops Game X for PC (Steam), 360 and PS3.

Let's say it costs them say $10m to develop for PC/360 and $2m extra to develop for PC/360/PS3 (assuming that it's going to be cheap to simultaneously release on the PS3. Say only 20% more cost in this example).

Let's say the PC/360 versions gives them $40m revenue. And the PS3 version gives them $10m revenue (so PC/360 revenue beat PS3 revenues at a 4:1 ratio).

The ROI for PC/360 would be a ratio of 4:1. The ROI for porting the code to PS3 also would be 5:1 (despite the fact that the PS3 version sold a lot less).

In this kind of scenario, triple plat development would be worth your while.

What we do know though is that PC to 360 porting is cheaper than PS3 porting. By porting the PC code to 360, it's easy easy money for Valve. Definitely increases their ROI even after EA takes a huge chunk of the pie. If it didn't increase their ROI to do 360 releases, I'm sure Valve would be happy to stay Steam exclusive after all.

 

Exactly.  We don't, but Valve does.  Obviously they've seen something in their projections regarding PS3 development that they didn't like, and decided not to develop for it.  Your scenario is meaningless because one could just as easily assume numbers that would show the port not to be worth it.  What if those $2M spent on the PS3 version could have been used to enhance the PC/360 version and drive $15M extra in revenue?  That would be an ROI of 5.5:1. 

At then end of the day Valve is still one of the few companies out there still making profits so I trust that they know what they're doing.



That's true too. The situation is very complex when we don't know the numbers. This is why it's unreasonable when you see PS3 fanboys tell Valve to go eat shit and die. It would be nice if Valve just told it straight and said exactly why PS3 development isn't attractive to them. Would it kill them to say "the PC/Xbox 360 gives us a higher return on investment and if we invest in triple platform development, this is why it won't be as profitable for us." Why can't they just tell it how it is instead of just saying that the community is better on Steam and XBL.



JFYI, it's entirely possible that Valve merely prefers PC and 360. The company is small, private, and was started by a bunch of Microsoft millionaires. They might choose projects based on what they want to do, rather than just the bottom line.

Just a thought, not saying 100% this is the case.



^^^ Right now, the bottline is that they are banking major $$$ doing what they are doing.



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder