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Dead Space Extraction is a MAJOR flop - we need to talk about it

Forums - Sales Discussion - Dead Space Extraction is a MAJOR flop - we need to talk about it

Interesting to note that the vast majority of people who bought (not played, since there were supposedly twice as many of those) Dead Space most likely do NOT own a Wii.

Considering that a spin off prequel title that changes the primary game play mechanics of the original is definitely NOT a hardware seller by any measure, maybe it shouldn't come as a surprise that consumer interest has been so indifferent.

While there is clearly a market for survival horror games on the Wii, specifically Resident Evil (carried over from the Nintendo core audience on the GC), RE may be the one and only popular horror franchise to sell significantly on the Wii.

But as one of the minority players who actually bought Dead Space, and owns a Wii, I still didn't feel compelled to buy Extraction, despite the fact that the story (and significant back story) was one of the few things I liked most about the original.

I certainly didn't feel compelled to buy Extraction "to support third party exclusives on the Wii." At this stage in the current generation, my standards for console games have been raised, meaning good reasons, not excuses get my vote in sales. Maybe I'm not the only one among multi-platform gamers who feel this way and didn't bother to buy the game either.



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KingArthur said:
tuoyo said:
I really don't understand third parties to be honest. Why must they all be followers? Carnival Games and Mario Party see success and all of a sudden there are a million party games. RE Chronicles and House of the Dead and all of a sudden everyone wants to make a rails shooter. Wii Fit was an astonishing success and now there are a billion fitness games. Truth is that in life the first to come up with original idea is likely to have the biggest success even if your product is better because people are unlikely to buy two of the same and if they already bought the originators product then they are much less likely to buy yours.

But the more intersting question is not why they have to be followers but why can they only be followers when it comes to the easy option? Mario Galaxy was a great success. Where is the massive 3rd party platforming game ripping off Mario Galaxy? Resident Evil 4 Wii was a huge success. Why has Capcom chosen to only release on rail games now when no onrails game has sold as well as RE4 Wii which is a game already on two other platforms? Simple answer is most 3rd Parties don't seem to have any talent to make a quality game unless they are able to use amazing HD graphics to hide the gameplay flaws. So with Wii they take the easy option of just making party games instead of a platform or other massive game or a rail shooter instead of a third person game.

Why there will be games which copy succesful games?

Carnival games and mario party sold a lot -> Game party (2.09m), deca sports (1.97m), big beach sports (1.34m), game party 2 (1.02m). There must be a lot of more these kind of games which have made profit but I am not going to bother to look below 1 million marker.

Same goes for those fitness games. I only know that Ea made one and there is Jill michaels fitness game and both of them are likely to made a nice profit. Make a cheap game -> get a nice profit = great. No publisher gives a crap who had the original idea and the most succes if they see good enough profits.

Why there isn't games copying SMG? Because they can't use mario and a game like SMG costs a lot more than next "game sports party". How many 3d platformers have sold 1m+ on wii? 3? How many of those 3 does not have a famous video game character who cannot be used by any developer?

No. It is not about lack of talent. It is all about assessing the risks and potential profits.

Why is it that any Mario game can sell millions?  Is it not because of quality games that he became the biggest name in gaming?  If 3rd parties had talent they would make a quality game that would sell millions.  It does not have to be a platformer it can be any genre.

As for the games you have mentioned there are many Carnival Game copy cats that have failed to sell even 50k. 

My point is 3rd parties could have looked at the sales of RE4 Wii or Red Steel to realise that there was a gap in the market on Wii for a mature quality game to sell and make alot of money.  But they did not have the ability or sense to make that game.  Instead they were making party games of questionable quality and on rail shooters which are far easier to make than a proper third person game.



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tuoyo said:
KingArthur said:
tuoyo said:
I really don't understand third parties to be honest. Why must they all be followers? Carnival Games and Mario Party see success and all of a sudden there are a million party games. RE Chronicles and House of the Dead and all of a sudden everyone wants to make a rails shooter. Wii Fit was an astonishing success and now there are a billion fitness games. Truth is that in life the first to come up with original idea is likely to have the biggest success even if your product is better because people are unlikely to buy two of the same and if they already bought the originators product then they are much less likely to buy yours.

But the more intersting question is not why they have to be followers but why can they only be followers when it comes to the easy option? Mario Galaxy was a great success. Where is the massive 3rd party platforming game ripping off Mario Galaxy? Resident Evil 4 Wii was a huge success. Why has Capcom chosen to only release on rail games now when no onrails game has sold as well as RE4 Wii which is a game already on two other platforms? Simple answer is most 3rd Parties don't seem to have any talent to make a quality game unless they are able to use amazing HD graphics to hide the gameplay flaws. So with Wii they take the easy option of just making party games instead of a platform or other massive game or a rail shooter instead of a third person game.

Why there will be games which copy succesful games?

Carnival games and mario party sold a lot -> Game party (2.09m), deca sports (1.97m), big beach sports (1.34m), game party 2 (1.02m). There must be a lot of more these kind of games which have made profit but I am not going to bother to look below 1 million marker.

Same goes for those fitness games. I only know that Ea made one and there is Jill michaels fitness game and both of them are likely to made a nice profit. Make a cheap game -> get a nice profit = great. No publisher gives a crap who had the original idea and the most succes if they see good enough profits.

Why there isn't games copying SMG? Because they can't use mario and a game like SMG costs a lot more than next "game sports party". How many 3d platformers have sold 1m+ on wii? 3? How many of those 3 does not have a famous video game character who cannot be used by any developer?

No. It is not about lack of talent. It is all about assessing the risks and potential profits.

Why is it that any Mario game can sell millions?  Is it not because of quality games that he became the biggest name in gaming?  If 3rd parties had talent they would make a quality game that would sell millions.  It does not have to be a platformer it can be any genre.

As for the games you have mentioned there are many Carnival Game copy cats that have failed to sell even 50k. 

My point is 3rd parties could have looked at the sales of RE4 Wii or Red Steel to realise that there was a gap in the market on Wii for a mature quality game to sell and make alot of money.  But they did not have the ability or sense to make that game.  Instead they were making party games of questionable quality and on rail shooters which are far easier to make than a proper third person game.

Why is it? Because there are a lot of mario fans who will buy almost anything with mario slapped on the box. Of course the main series games are of good quality but I just can't see a platformer of same quality selling that much without Mario. Has there ever been a platformer which sells as much as Mario?

How do you know that those 50k sellers haven't been profitable? I just can't see those games being so expensive that 50k sales would not give profit.

Of course they could have picked the 28. and 50. from the top seller list. They just choose to copy those games in the top 20 seller list. There are quality mature games on wii. They just don't sell as much as those games mentioned before.



KingArthur said:
tuoyo said:
KingArthur said:
tuoyo said:
I really don't understand third parties to be honest. Why must they all be followers? Carnival Games and Mario Party see success and all of a sudden there are a million party games. RE Chronicles and House of the Dead and all of a sudden everyone wants to make a rails shooter. Wii Fit was an astonishing success and now there are a billion fitness games. Truth is that in life the first to come up with original idea is likely to have the biggest success even if your product is better because people are unlikely to buy two of the same and if they already bought the originators product then they are much less likely to buy yours.

But the more intersting question is not why they have to be followers but why can they only be followers when it comes to the easy option? Mario Galaxy was a great success. Where is the massive 3rd party platforming game ripping off Mario Galaxy? Resident Evil 4 Wii was a huge success. Why has Capcom chosen to only release on rail games now when no onrails game has sold as well as RE4 Wii which is a game already on two other platforms? Simple answer is most 3rd Parties don't seem to have any talent to make a quality game unless they are able to use amazing HD graphics to hide the gameplay flaws. So with Wii they take the easy option of just making party games instead of a platform or other massive game or a rail shooter instead of a third person game.

Why there will be games which copy succesful games?

Carnival games and mario party sold a lot -> Game party (2.09m), deca sports (1.97m), big beach sports (1.34m), game party 2 (1.02m). There must be a lot of more these kind of games which have made profit but I am not going to bother to look below 1 million marker.

Same goes for those fitness games. I only know that Ea made one and there is Jill michaels fitness game and both of them are likely to made a nice profit. Make a cheap game -> get a nice profit = great. No publisher gives a crap who had the original idea and the most succes if they see good enough profits.

Why there isn't games copying SMG? Because they can't use mario and a game like SMG costs a lot more than next "game sports party". How many 3d platformers have sold 1m+ on wii? 3? How many of those 3 does not have a famous video game character who cannot be used by any developer?

No. It is not about lack of talent. It is all about assessing the risks and potential profits.

Why is it that any Mario game can sell millions?  Is it not because of quality games that he became the biggest name in gaming?  If 3rd parties had talent they would make a quality game that would sell millions.  It does not have to be a platformer it can be any genre.

As for the games you have mentioned there are many Carnival Game copy cats that have failed to sell even 50k. 

My point is 3rd parties could have looked at the sales of RE4 Wii or Red Steel to realise that there was a gap in the market on Wii for a mature quality game to sell and make alot of money.  But they did not have the ability or sense to make that game.  Instead they were making party games of questionable quality and on rail shooters which are far easier to make than a proper third person game.

Why is it? Because there are a lot of mario fans who will buy almost anything with mario slapped on the box. Of course the main series games are of good quality but I just can't see a platformer of same quality selling that much without Mario. Has there ever been a platformer which sells as much as Mario?

How do you know that those 50k sellers haven't been profitable? I just can't see those games being so expensive that 50k sales would not give profit.

Of course they could have picked the 28. and 50. from the top seller list. They just choose to copy those games in the top 20 seller list. There are quality mature games on wii. They just don't sell as much as those games mentioned before.

Yes no platformer of similar quality will sell as much as Mario.  No question about that.  But has any fitness game sold anything close to Wii Fit.  The biggest selling fitness game that isn't Wii Fit is at around 3 million.  Wii Fit is gone past 22 million.  Why did EA not decide not to release their Fitness game when they knew it had no chance to sell even a 10th as much as Wii Fit?  Obviously because making a fitness game is easy.  Why have third parties decided not to make a quality platform game knowing it won't sell anything close to Mario Galaxy but will at least sell like 2 million if it is of a similar quality?  Because they do not have the talent to make such a game.  Why did no one make a quality FPS from after Red Steel till COD knowing there would be no competition on the Wii but instead they were releasing Guided FPS?  Because making a guided FPS is easy compared to a proper RE style game of FPS. 

Truth of the matter is they all missed a huge opportunity.  Especially last Christmas period when all there was from Nintendo was a Wii Music game no sane person cared about and Animal Crossing which was a port of a DS game.  If any third party had released an exclusive quality Wii game last Christmas they would have made a sales killing.  Instead their lack of talent and foresight meant they decided all Wii owners want are rail shooters and party games.



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vlad321 said:
It's on-rails. I define that as soft-core. I don't care about setting, atmosphere, or anything else, it's on-rails and therefore not hardcore.

Panzer Dragoon: Orta is on rails, and it's one of the best core games I've played. It's also very, very difficult.

Star Fox 64 and Sin and Punishment are also on rails.

Your statement is wrong, imho.



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

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I want people to consider this from outside of the "Hardcore" and "Casual" debate and to start to ask whether this was enough of a "Mainstream Game" to justify particularly strong sales ...

As much as the Wii has seen some massive success from unconventional games, much like the PS3 and XBox 360, the bread and butter of the Wii’s game sales come from games that are extremely mainstream in nature. Nintendo releases games in established, well known, franchises with their conventional game-play (with "Twist"/enhancement provided by the Wiimote) and achieves massive success. Third party publishers understand this formula and successfully implement it on the HD consoles (with the "Twist"/enhancement comming from greater processing power) and achieve massive success but (moronically) refuse to even attempt it on the Wii.

Being that the sales of Dead Space Extraction put it in a similar category to Ninja Bread Man, I don't think "Flop" is as appropriate as saying that Wii owners rejected Dead Space Extraction on principle; perhaps EA should have listened to Wii owners when they said they didn't want an on rails Dead Space months ago ...



tuoyo said:

Yes no platformer of similar quality will sell as much as Mario.  No question about that.  But has any fitness game sold anything close to Wii Fit.  The biggest selling fitness game that isn't Wii Fit is at around 3 million.  Wii Fit is gone past 22 million.  Why did EA not decide not to release their Fitness game when they knew it had no chance to sell even a 10th as much as Wii Fit?  Obviously because making a fitness game is easy.  Why have third parties decided not to make a quality platform game knowing it won't sell anything close to Mario Galaxy but will at least sell like 2 million if it is of a similar quality?  Because they do not have the talent to make such a game.  Why did no one make a quality FPS from after Red Steel till COD knowing there would be no competition on the Wii but instead they were releasing Guided FPS?  Because making a guided FPS is easy compared to a proper RE style game of FPS. 

Truth of the matter is they all missed a huge opportunity.  Especially last Christmas period when all there was from Nintendo was a Wii Music game no sane person cared about and Animal Crossing which was a port of a DS game.  If any third party had released an exclusive quality Wii game last Christmas they would have made a sales killing.  Instead their lack of talent and foresight meant they decided all Wii owners want are rail shooters and party games.

You just don't get it.

I know it is pretty pointless to argue about Mario games but I bet there are many companies which could make a platformer as high quality as SMG is. It would cost relatively high amount of money and when there aren't many examples of a platformer doing so well that it would justify that kind of budget. During last generation only one platformer sold more than 5 million and guess what? It was a mario game.

Crash bandicoot sold a lot on ps2 but it did not have as good competition as a platformer would have on wii.

The point is that many dev teams can make a high quality game on wii, they just see the risks being too high to make the game. It is not like they can't make a high quality game, no matter how much you would like to believe in that.



KingArthur said:
tuoyo said:

Yes no platformer of similar quality will sell as much as Mario.  No question about that.  But has any fitness game sold anything close to Wii Fit.  The biggest selling fitness game that isn't Wii Fit is at around 3 million.  Wii Fit is gone past 22 million.  Why did EA not decide not to release their Fitness game when they knew it had no chance to sell even a 10th as much as Wii Fit?  Obviously because making a fitness game is easy.  Why have third parties decided not to make a quality platform game knowing it won't sell anything close to Mario Galaxy but will at least sell like 2 million if it is of a similar quality?  Because they do not have the talent to make such a game.  Why did no one make a quality FPS from after Red Steel till COD knowing there would be no competition on the Wii but instead they were releasing Guided FPS?  Because making a guided FPS is easy compared to a proper RE style game of FPS. 

Truth of the matter is they all missed a huge opportunity.  Especially last Christmas period when all there was from Nintendo was a Wii Music game no sane person cared about and Animal Crossing which was a port of a DS game.  If any third party had released an exclusive quality Wii game last Christmas they would have made a sales killing.  Instead their lack of talent and foresight meant they decided all Wii owners want are rail shooters and party games.

You just don't get it.

I know it is pretty pointless to argue about Mario games but I bet there are many companies which could make a platformer as high quality as SMG is. It would cost relatively high amount of money and when there aren't many examples of a platformer doing so well that it would justify that kind of budget. During last generation only one platformer sold more than 5 million and guess what? It was a mario game.

Crash bandicoot sold a lot on ps2 but it did not have as good competition as a platformer would have on wii.

The point is that many dev teams can make a high quality game on wii, they just see the risks being too high to make the game. It is not like they can't make a high quality game, no matter how much you would like to believe in that.

Crash Bandicoot: The Wrath of Cortex sold over 6 Million copies on the PS2 and XBox combined, and several Sonic games had (roughly) 5 Million unit sales when you combine sales across platforms ... This is even though most games released using these characters have been awful for several generations. Jak and Dexter, Ratchet and Clank, and several other platformers have had very respectable sales.

Even very shitty platformers generally sell over 500,000 copies on a single platform, and regularly pass $1 Million when they're multiplatform, and the risk of the genre is pretty minimal; and yet there is no real effort put into most platformers outside of a couple of first party games.

 

The reason why there are so few quality western games that are not shooters is very similar to the reason why Hollywood doesn't produce many decent drama movies anymore. The industry has moved away from making reliable profits producing a decent product at a moderate cost, and will blindly seek out massive revenues at high risk ... For the cost of a HD game most companies could produce several Wii games at varying budgets (from low budget to high budget for a Wii game) across multiple genres and produce reliable profits, but they favour to put all their resources in one basket aiming for a big success; and more often then not, they don't get the big hit they're looking for (and end up with record losses along with record revenues).



Capcom did a similar thing with Dead Rising Wii. I wonder if we will see others.



PSN - hanafuda

People crtitisize Wii owners for not buying more "core" games like this.. but if you owned a Wii, honestly, would you buy this game? Unless you're a HUGE Dead Space and/or light gun fan, the answer is probably no. Of course this game failed. It's an on-rail shooter in a sea of tons of other on-rail shooters on Wii. It may even be a great game, but the fact that it's an on-rail shooter alone usually indicates that it's half assed and probably not worth $50. I can can guarentee you that this game would have failed on ANY gaming console.

Make a Wii game that is fun, marketable, and worth 50 bucks, and the sales will come. Make a half assed effort at a Wii game and expect half assed results. It's as simple as that. I don't know why these developers cannot figure this stuff out when it comes to Wii development. The amount of effort a developer puts into a game (or lack of effort in this case) shows through in the final product, and the consumers can see through it.