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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Final Fantasy dominating home console RPG. Fair or Not Fair

twesterm said:
I think SE has pretty unfairly raised the bar for JRPG's and are pretty much destroying the genre.

It's not that they are making great games anymore (or at least the FF games aren't great), it's that they have these insanely high budgets that other publishers can't match but SE can get away with because they know the FF name means several million units and a Cloud clone means another million units.

Why just because you don't think the FF's are great now?

the FACT is FF12's metacritic is as good as FF7

ALL FF games are AAA & are loved by millions & the franchise is still regarded as quality, so we can't say they are destroying the genre.

S-E are killing JRPG's in one way though......by not releasing FF13 quickly.....as once FF13 comes, JRPG fans will be on the HD consoles, allowing other JRPG's to also sell well, FF13 is a catalyst for the JRPG console movement, just like the other FF's were (FF7 & FF10)



All hail the KING, Andrespetmonkey

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darthdevidem01 said:
twesterm said:
I think SE has pretty unfairly raised the bar for JRPG's and are pretty much destroying the genre.

It's not that they are making great games anymore (or at least the FF games aren't great), it's that they have these insanely high budgets that other publishers can't match but SE can get away with because they know the FF name means several million units and a Cloud clone means another million units.

Why just because you don't think the FF's are great now?

the FACT is FF12's metacritic is as good as FF7

ALL FF games are AAA & are loved by millions & the franchise is still regarded as quality, so we can't say they are destroying the genre.

S-E are killing JRPG's in one way though......by not releasing FF13 quickly.....as once FF13 comes, JRPG fans will be on the HD consoles, allowing other JRPG's to also sell well, FF13 is a catalyst for the JRPG console movement, just like the other FF's were (FF7 & FF10)

Are you also going to tell me GTAIV is one of the greatest games of all time?  Sometimes critics just buy into the hype.



darthdevidem01 said:
twesterm said:
I think SE has pretty unfairly raised the bar for JRPG's and are pretty much destroying the genre.

It's not that they are making great games anymore (or at least the FF games aren't great), it's that they have these insanely high budgets that other publishers can't match but SE can get away with because they know the FF name means several million units and a Cloud clone means another million units.

Why just because you don't think the FF's are great now?

the FACT is FF12's metacritic is as good as FF7

ALL FF games are AAA & are loved by millions & the franchise is still regarded as quality, so we can't say they are destroying the genre.

S-E are killing JRPG's in one way though......by not releasing FF13 quickly.....as once FF13 comes, JRPG fans will be on the HD consoles, allowing other JRPG's to also sell well, FF13 is a catalyst for the JRPG console movement, just like the other FF's were (FF7 & FF10)

Also, regardless of quality, my point still stands about SE and other games with infinite budgets-- they set the bar rediculously high so that anyone that doesn't have an infinite budget just can't match them and are already considered inferior before they're even released based on nothing other than lack of advertising and it's not as pretty.



twesterm said:
darthdevidem01 said:
twesterm said:
I think SE has pretty unfairly raised the bar for JRPG's and are pretty much destroying the genre.

It's not that they are making great games anymore (or at least the FF games aren't great), it's that they have these insanely high budgets that other publishers can't match but SE can get away with because they know the FF name means several million units and a Cloud clone means another million units.

Why just because you don't think the FF's are great now?

the FACT is FF12's metacritic is as good as FF7

ALL FF games are AAA & are loved by millions & the franchise is still regarded as quality, so we can't say they are destroying the genre.

S-E are killing JRPG's in one way though......by not releasing FF13 quickly.....as once FF13 comes, JRPG fans will be on the HD consoles, allowing other JRPG's to also sell well, FF13 is a catalyst for the JRPG console movement, just like the other FF's were (FF7 & FF10)

Are you also going to tell me GTAIV is one of the greatest games of all time?  Sometimes critics just buy into the hype.


so critics bought into the hype, what SEVEN times

or lets count since FF7 (including FF7).....5 TIMES

It would be fine once, twice....that could be "buying into the hype"

but after 3 times & finally 5 times.....it starts to become a trend which proves the franchise aint crap, its respected & seen as fabulous by both the industry, gaming press & gamers.

_____________

your point about SE & infinite budget is correct........but is that unfair?

I would prefer getting FF's with infinite budgets & lots of quality, instead of SE not having high budgets to let other JRPG guys be successful

In the end I think it comes down to marketing thats the reason other JRPG's don't do as well, as you said. Thats not really fair, but maybe the other companies should for once RISK spending tons of marketing money!

What do you expect Resonance of Fate to do in the west BTW? thats a mega budget JRPG which SEGA stated they wanted to be their "FF" in the west.



All hail the KING, Andrespetmonkey

darthdevidem01 said:
twesterm said:
darthdevidem01 said:
twesterm said:
I think SE has pretty unfairly raised the bar for JRPG's and are pretty much destroying the genre.

It's not that they are making great games anymore (or at least the FF games aren't great), it's that they have these insanely high budgets that other publishers can't match but SE can get away with because they know the FF name means several million units and a Cloud clone means another million units.

Why just because you don't think the FF's are great now?

the FACT is FF12's metacritic is as good as FF7

ALL FF games are AAA & are loved by millions & the franchise is still regarded as quality, so we can't say they are destroying the genre.

S-E are killing JRPG's in one way though......by not releasing FF13 quickly.....as once FF13 comes, JRPG fans will be on the HD consoles, allowing other JRPG's to also sell well, FF13 is a catalyst for the JRPG console movement, just like the other FF's were (FF7 & FF10)

Are you also going to tell me GTAIV is one of the greatest games of all time?  Sometimes critics just buy into the hype.


so critics bought into the hype, what SEVEN times

or lets count since FF7 (including FF7).....5 TIMES

It would be fine once, twice....that could be "buying into the hype"

but after 3 times & finally 5 times.....it starts to become a trend which proves the franchise aint crap, its respected & seen as fabulous by both the industry, gaming press & gamers.

_____________

your point about SE & infinite budget is correct........but is that unfair?

I would prefer getting FF's with infinite budgets & lots of quality, instead of SE not having high budgets to let other JRPG guys be successful

In the end I think it comes down to marketing thats the reason other JRPG's don't do as well, as you said. Thats not really fair, but maybe the other companies should for once RISK spending tons of marketing money!

What do you expect Resonance of Fate to do in the west BTW? thats a mega budget JRPG which SEGA stated they wanted to be their "FF" in the west.

So you would rather have one questonable RPG every five years that muscles out many other RPG's or a steady stream of RPG's?



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darthdevidem01 said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
The Final Fantasy titles have actually been slowly selling less each title since FFVII. And, like everything, it depends on if you're talking about worldwide or regional sales.

If you're talking about worldwide sales, Final Fantasy might be the best seller on consoles. If you're talking about regional, a couple others probably surpass it. Stuff like Dragon Quest in Japan or recent WRPGs in America.


your on VGC which has a VERY GOOD database for sales of ALL FF game

yet you make a FACTUAL error of such massive proportions, seriously use the sites resources

FF DECLINED with FF8.....after that it never declined again. Ever. Except for when FF12 sold less than FF10.....but FF9 sold less than FF8 too....so that decline was merely because of the "end of gen, loss of interest, nex gen consoles out" feeling going round.

FFX sold more than FF8 & FF12 sold more than FF9

if anything after the decline showed by FF8, the FF franchise rose up again.

....except for those two times?  So never except?

Also I wasn't just pointing to the main games, but speaking of the series overall.



Six upcoming games you should look into:

 

  

These are consumer electronics... Every sales they get is fair... you could argue that it deserved more but not that it should have been more. Square Enix where able to make a franchise that's seen as the "Quality" RPG series on home consoles. Sure, there might be other games around that are better, and perhaps deserve to sell more, but Square did what they had to do sell their games. Ensure that when people hear "Final Fantasy" they think "Good".



4 ≈ One

twesterm said:
darthdevidem01 said:
twesterm said:
darthdevidem01 said:
twesterm said:
I think SE has pretty unfairly raised the bar for JRPG's and are pretty much destroying the genre.

It's not that they are making great games anymore (or at least the FF games aren't great), it's that they have these insanely high budgets that other publishers can't match but SE can get away with because they know the FF name means several million units and a Cloud clone means another million units.

Why just because you don't think the FF's are great now?

the FACT is FF12's metacritic is as good as FF7

ALL FF games are AAA & are loved by millions & the franchise is still regarded as quality, so we can't say they are destroying the genre.

S-E are killing JRPG's in one way though......by not releasing FF13 quickly.....as once FF13 comes, JRPG fans will be on the HD consoles, allowing other JRPG's to also sell well, FF13 is a catalyst for the JRPG console movement, just like the other FF's were (FF7 & FF10)

Are you also going to tell me GTAIV is one of the greatest games of all time?  Sometimes critics just buy into the hype.


so critics bought into the hype, what SEVEN times

or lets count since FF7 (including FF7).....5 TIMES

It would be fine once, twice....that could be "buying into the hype"

but after 3 times & finally 5 times.....it starts to become a trend which proves the franchise aint crap, its respected & seen as fabulous by both the industry, gaming press & gamers.

_____________

your point about SE & infinite budget is correct........but is that unfair?

I would prefer getting FF's with infinite budgets & lots of quality, instead of SE not having high budgets to let other JRPG guys be successful

In the end I think it comes down to marketing thats the reason other JRPG's don't do as well, as you said. Thats not really fair, but maybe the other companies should for once RISK spending tons of marketing money!

What do you expect Resonance of Fate to do in the west BTW? thats a mega budget JRPG which SEGA stated they wanted to be their "FF" in the west.

So you would rather have one questonable RPG every five years that muscles out many other RPG's or a steady stream of RPG's?

If those steady streams are like Lost Oddesy's & Tales Of Vesperia's FINE

if they are like Infinite Undiscovery's, last remnants, esternal sonata's bla bla bla

HELL no!

We already get atleast ONE great JRPG a year, I don't see how S-E reducing FF's budget will lead to all those other devs makig mediocre JRPG's suddenly making good ones.

Its not S-E's fault other JRPG devs don't have the "guts" or will to market JRPG's to the west, SEGA has finally taken up the task, but tell me who else really did?

@Kenryoku

How?

What titles have been selling less & less after FF7?



All hail the KING, Andrespetmonkey

Dgc1808 said:
These are consumer electronics... Every sales they get is fair... you could argue that it deserved more but not that it should have been more. Square Enix where able to make a franchise that's seen as the "Quality" RPG series on home consoles. Sure, there might be other games around that are better, and perhaps deserve to sell more, but Square did what they had to do sell their games. Ensure that when people hear "Final Fantasy" they think "Good".

Indeed, and that's their true mark on the industry.  Final Fantasy is a series about being noticed.  Even the series creator stated that was its purpose from the start.  A series about focusing on story and imitating the 'cenematic feel' of movies.  And seeing as how the first game was trying to revive a dying company, its only natural that it was made to gain attention, especially in a market with stiff competition from games like Dragon Quest and Phantasy Star.

In the end, Final Fantasy's major draw has always been about having the best graphics and the most marketing.  That's how it cornered its market and became the most popular JRPG in America.  It just so happens that this system is perfect for selling games in America.  In Japan however, a few other RPGs have made a bigger impact.



Six upcoming games you should look into:

 

  

Kenryoku_Maxis said:
Dgc1808 said:
These are consumer electronics... Every sales they get is fair... you could argue that it deserved more but not that it should have been more. Square Enix where able to make a franchise that's seen as the "Quality" RPG series on home consoles. Sure, there might be other games around that are better, and perhaps deserve to sell more, but Square did what they had to do sell their games. Ensure that when people hear "Final Fantasy" they think "Good".

Indeed, and that's their true mark on the industry.  Final Fantasy is a series about being noticed.  Even the series creator stated that was its purpose from the start.  A series about focusing on story and imitating the 'cenematic feel' of movies.  And seeing as how the first game was trying to revive a dying company, its only natural that it was made to gain attention, especially in a market with stiff competition from games like Dragon Quest and Phantasy Star.

In the end, Final Fantasy's major draw has always been about having the best graphics and the most marketing.  That's how it cornered its market and became the most popular JRPG in America.  It just so happens that this system is perfect for selling games in America.  In Japan however, a few other RPGs have made a bigger impact.

yes 2 others.....DQ & pokemon



All hail the KING, Andrespetmonkey