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Locked: On Censorship (please don't censor this)

Forums - Website Topics - On Censorship (please don't censor this)

BenKenobi88 said:
K, well then you could have made that argument to ioi.

It's too late now, as Crucial went berserk, so I say again, the point is moot.

We'll be more careful about this in the future, but there's nothing we can do now...I'll give you a pat on the back. *pat on back*

 The point with Crucial may be moot. The question of how the forum rules are applied is certainly an ongoing question. Using Crucial as an example of how the rules are applied is topical.



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Ah, but see now you admit he started with an insult which was inappropriate and warranted action. Now you are just into debating the severity of the punishment. The fact that he still isn't perma-banned even after his post-ban actions I think shows quite a bit of leniency in that regard.


The end result is a moot point on this one, as Ben has pointed out. The issue is with the initial over reaction. I can understand why mods would want to ban users for saying the site sucks, but it happens so often on these boards it is ridiculous. To punish one person with a 3 month ban (or heck even a one day ban all things considered) and let a dozen or so other people off the hook with no punishment at all is ridiculous. Maybe ioi was just having a bad day and over reacting, or maybe he has never seen the same comment I have read. I can't say for sure. I can say that the post seems perfectly normal for this forums, for whatever that is worth.

No, but you're making a big deal of a person who deserved to be banned and COULD have gotten a second chance if he didn't bypass the ban system and troll and spam just to try to make a point.


It is the principle of the situation. The point is some feel the first ban was unjust and the sotuation where he could circumvent the ban should never have come up. His behavior after that point cannot justify actions taken earlier.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

fkusumot said:
naznatips said:
If they weren't banned that was a mistake on the mod's part. FF asked what reasoning there was for the initial ban. I gave him that reasoning. Insulting the site is not criticizing the site. His post after the insult may have been criticism, but he started with an insult, which directly contradicts the forum rules, and common decency in general.

Which forum rule is that in direct contradiction with? I think the whole point here is how things are interpreted. It would be helpful to know what the words are exactly and how you're interpreting them.


Hrmm.  Good point, you have me there.  There isn't a rule directly against insulting on the forums.  However, there is in rule 3 "No posts specifically to to say that a poster or the thread sucks, either with words or pictures."  Again, it's common sense not to post insults and it's reasonable for any site to enforce punishment on people for those insults.  Even without a direct rule, insults shouldn't be tolerated.  If you'd like you can always go to the site improvement suggestions thread and request that be added to make things more clear.



i have no confidence in the judgement of mod's on this site. I was banned about 2 weeks ago for saying Wii Play should be counted as controller sales. A mod unbanned me but nothing was ever done about the first mod abusing his power and ruining the dialogue in that was ongoing in the thread.



Again, you are down to debates on the severity of the punishment, but that's up to the individual. Whether it's too severe or not, he posted an insult. The original topic was why he was banned. Now, if you have a problem with the severity of the ban, make a direct suggestion that the conditions of a ban and the length of time of a ban be clearly defined. Either way this original topic has been resolved. He was banned for an insult. There isn't any point in discussing this further.



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Except for the fact that other users have insulted the site and not been banned, you are correct. Or would that be a different issue?



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

If you have an issue with someone insulting, report the post. If the person was not banned, then message a mod and ask for clarification as to why. Individual mods may resolve things in different ways. Personally, I'm inclined to warn the person and talk to them rather than ban them. If you are banned in a way you consider unjustly, message Ben, Stof, or ioi and explain your situation.

Like I said, if you want a clearly defined level of punishment, we don't have one right now. That might be something to suggest as a site improvement. The fact that we don't right now though will just lead a discussion about the severity of the punishment onward endlessly.



naznatips said:
fkusumot said:
naznatips said:
If they weren't banned that was a mistake on the mod's part. FF asked what reasoning there was for the initial ban. I gave him that reasoning. Insulting the site is not criticizing the site. His post after the insult may have been criticism, but he started with an insult, which directly contradicts the forum rules, and common decency in general.

Which forum rule is that in direct contradiction with? I think the whole point here is how things are interpreted. It would be helpful to know what the words are exactly and how you're interpreting them.


Hrmm. Good point, you have me there. There isn't a rule directly against insulting on the forums. However, there is in rule 3 "No posts specifically to to say that a poster or the thread sucks, either with words or pictures." Again, it's common sense not to post insults and it's reasonable for any site to enforce punishment on people for those insults. Even without a direct rule, insults shouldn't be tolerated. If you'd like you can always go to the site improvement suggestions thread and request that be added to make things more clear.


 Fair enough Naznatips. Stof has already commented that he was looking at revising the forum rules but that he didn't absolutely think it was necessary (or something like that). I know there will always be questions of interpretation and application. People usually have a better understanding of things when they have an idea of what they are standing under.



jeese, how ridiculous. People expect American like democracy to be implemented to the tee in every aspect of their life.

You know what? My house is not a democracy. If you come into my house I can tell you to leave for whatever the hell reason I want. You do not have the freedom to do whatever you want in my house, and I can make up whatever stupid rules I want. If you don't like it, then you can leave my house. That is not ridiculous, that is not absurd, that's plain and simple and I would extend the same respect to your house, and you would expect it without question. If you came into my house and told me my rules are stupid, or wanted to debate the validity and consistency of my rules, or the justice of said rules I could care less. My house is not a democracy. My house, I pay to be here, I put work into my house, you have no right to come into my house and tell me how to do things. If you want to make a suggestion, pay some me damn taxes and maybe I'll consider it.

This is ioi's house. If you don't like what he's doing, no one forces you to be here. Hell, just check the numbers and leave if you want. You can enjoy this site without ever having to talk to a mod, or put yourself into a position to be judged by them. You want a better community, go find one or create one yourself but just bitching here doesn't fix anything. You think you have a right to complain here? When was the last time you were forced to pay ioi something to be here?



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

naznatips said:
For the record, a post starting with "This site is a joke" will get you banned on pretty much every gaming site on the internet. Valid criticism and unnecessary insults are not the same. If he wanted to criticize the site, that's not the way to do it at all. That's immature and insulting. ioi has every right to ban someone for a statement like that, and the extended ban was certainly warranted by his actions after that. Sorry if you disagree, but that was his judgment call, and it was certainly an insult no matter how you look at it; no matter what the text he typed after that said.

I should have posted earlier;  you took the words right out of my mouth.  His point would have had much more meaning if he had not started with such an insult to the site.  Although, I don't think that a ban was really needed.  A warning; yes.  A ban; not so much. 

However, there are a few other factors that probably didn't help him.  

1.  I think that he only had about 30-40 posts.  I don't think that that is enough time to earn the respect of anyone very easily.  He was still within the first-impressions stage where any one of his comments could greatly change how a person views him.  

2.  He insulted something that ioi has spent nearly countless hours trying to perfect.  I wouldn't find it hard to believe that that was a personal hit towards ioi and the site, so ioi's reaction doesn't really surprise me.  Had he tried to use constructive criticism instead of insults, I doubt that there would be much of a problem.

3.  Not only did he insult the site, but he also seemed to be attacking it and the mods.  His second, and technically, third sentence accused the mods of banning people for speaking out against them.  I believe the situation that he was talking about was how Leo-j had been banned.  The  quote was:

"Rocket pig? Are you Fing kiding me? He is as much as a fanboy as me or soriku. He HATES SONY. HATES, not DISLIKE, HATES"

Your ban is over, please behave. FishyJoe -I think that FishJoe didn't edit his post, so the quote above should be what Leo-J had said

 While the above is technically speaking out against a mod,  this was more of an attack towards rocketpig.  He didn't back up this statement much ,if at all, and simply called rocketpig a fanboy.  To me, this seems grounds for a ban especially taking in consideration Leo-J's on-off ranting/insulting past.

 

 Sorry to cut this short( I am going to a lan party now).  In the end I think that ioi was more in the right(than the wrong) for banning crucial, but to me a warning first would have probably been better.  A warning would have also probably avoided this whole situation.