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Final-Fan, why are you making such a huge deal out of this?

Crucial gave himself plenty of reasons to keep a ban after-the-fact...he was just generally being a jerk.

Can't we just move on? Bans are bans...they're not allowed to post on an internet forum...we're not banishing them to an island or anything...I don't see what all the drama is about.



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Bet with disolitude: Left4Dead will have a higher Metacritic rating than Project Origin, 3 months after the second game's release.  (hasn't been 3 months but it looks like I won :-p )

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Final-Fan said:
BenKenobi88 said:
It doesn't matter anymore...he's become a general nuisance, and the point is moot.

I very strongly disagree.  Plenty of U.S. Supreme Court cases haven't ultimately mattered as to the individuals in question:  Dredd Scott was going to be freed anyway, but the point of law the case was arguing was very important. 

Crucial is currently banned for three months.  This is appropriate given his behavior since he was banned.  But the ban was inappropriate in the first place given his behavior before he was banned. 

How can discussing what went wrong, with an eye towards formulating rules to prevent it from happening again, be undesirable? 

Did you just compare the Dred Scott case to a person being banned on a message board?  You do realize that Dred Scott lost his case to become an American citizen and was, in fact, returned as property. 



"Human equality is a contingent fact of history. Equality is not true by definition; it is neither an ethical principle (though equal treatment may be) nor a statement about norms of social action. It just worked out that way. A hundred different and plausible scenarios for human history would have yielded other results (and moral dilemmas of enormous magnitude). They didn't happen." - Stephen Jay Gould

Systems I currently own (in order of preference): PS2, SNES, Gamecube, Xbox 360, Genesis, Nintendo DS, PSX, XBOX, Wii, PS3,  Atari 5200, Turbo-Grafx 16, NES, Gameboy, Game Gear, 32X.

"How can discussing what went wrong, with an eye towards formulating rules to prevent it from happening again, be undesirable?"

There's really not much to discuss. There are rules set in place already...do you have a suggestion for additional rules? Like I said, if you've got a problem with it, take it up with a head moderator or ioi. Obviously, ioi has deemed the ban final, and that's that. Bringing up Supreme Court arguments in an online forum is nearly laughable in my opinion.



LEFT4DEAD411.COM
Bet with disolitude: Left4Dead will have a higher Metacritic rating than Project Origin, 3 months after the second game's release.  (hasn't been 3 months but it looks like I won :-p )

Final-Fan, his post started with "This site is a joke." That's not a criticism, that's an insult. He started bad, he ended bad. That's all there is to it.



Dejackso said:
Final-Fan said:
BenKenobi88 said:
It doesn't matter anymore...he's become a general nuisance, and the point is moot.

I very strongly disagree. Plenty of U.S. Supreme Court cases haven't ultimately mattered as to the individuals in question: Dredd Scott was going to be freed anyway, but the point of law the case was arguing was very important.

Crucial is currently banned for three months. This is appropriate given his behavior since he was banned. But the ban was inappropriate in the first place given his behavior before he was banned.

How can discussing what went wrong, with an eye towards formulating rules to prevent it from happening again, be undesirable?

Did you just compare the Dred Scott case to a person being banned on a message board? You do realize that Dred Scott lost his case to become an American citizen and was, in fact, returned as property.


I realize that the comparison is not equal, and I know what the result was. I just wanted an example of the [edit:  end verdict being unimportant to the fruits of the discussion]; that was the first one I thought of, and I saw no reason to go hunting for another. I am not trying to say they are equivalent.

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

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This thread gives me a headache...

Can we just move on? Just be happy you were not banned.




BenKenobi88 said:
"How can discussing what went wrong, with an eye towards formulating rules to prevent it from happening again, be undesirable?"

There's really not much to discuss. There are rules set in place already...do you have a suggestion for additional rules? Like I said, if you've got a problem with it, take it up with a head moderator or ioi. Obviously, ioi has deemed the ban final, and that's that. Bringing up Supreme Court arguments in an online forum is nearly laughable in my opinion.

I may do that when I have more time -- I'm about to get kicked off the PC to do yardwork.  In the meantime, see my response to the reactions to using Dredd Scott as an example. 

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

For the record, a post starting with "This site is a joke" will get you banned on pretty much every gaming site on the internet. Valid criticism and unnecessary insults are not the same. If he wanted to criticize the site, that's not the way to do it at all. That's immature and insulting. ioi has every right to ban someone for a statement like that, and the extended ban was certainly warranted by his actions after that. Sorry if you disagree, but that was his judgment call, and it was certainly an insult no matter how you look at it; no matter what the text he typed after that said.



Soriku said:
This thread gives me a headache...

Can we just move on? Just be happy you were not banned.

Er... are YOU happy you were not banned?  There would be equal justification (that is, none). 

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan said:
Soriku said:
This thread gives me a headache...

Can we just move on? Just be happy you were not banned.

Er... are YOU happy you were not banned? There would be equal justification (that is, none).

Did I ever insult the site?