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Forums - Website Topics - On Censorship (please don't censor this)

Final-Fan on 20 October 2007
Dejackso said:
Final-Fan said:
BenKenobi88 said:
It doesn't matter anymore...he's become a general nuisance, and the point is moot.

I very strongly disagree. Plenty of U.S. Supreme Court cases haven't ultimately mattered as to the individuals in question: Dredd Scott was going to be freed anyway, but the point of law the case was arguing was very important.

Crucial is currently banned for three months. This is appropriate given his behavior since he was banned. But the ban was inappropriate in the first place given his behavior before he was banned.

How can discussing what went wrong, with an eye towards formulating rules to prevent it from happening again, be undesirable?

Did you just compare the Dred Scott case to a person being banned on a message board? You do realize that Dred Scott lost his case to become an American citizen and was, in fact, returned as property.


I realize that the comparison is not equal, and I know what the result was. I just wanted an example of the [edit:  end verdict being unimportant to the fruits of the discussion]; that was the first one I thought of, and I saw no reason to go hunting for another. I am not trying to say they are equivalent.

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

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Final-Fan on 20 October 2007
BenKenobi88 said:
"How can discussing what went wrong, with an eye towards formulating rules to prevent it from happening again, be undesirable?"

There's really not much to discuss. There are rules set in place already...do you have a suggestion for additional rules? Like I said, if you've got a problem with it, take it up with a head moderator or ioi. Obviously, ioi has deemed the ban final, and that's that. Bringing up Supreme Court arguments in an online forum is nearly laughable in my opinion.

I may do that when I have more time -- I'm about to get kicked off the PC to do yardwork.  In the meantime, see my response to the reactions to using Dredd Scott as an example. 

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

naznatips on 20 October 2007

For the record, a post starting with "This site is a joke" will get you banned on pretty much every gaming site on the internet. Valid criticism and unnecessary insults are not the same. If he wanted to criticize the site, that's not the way to do it at all. That's immature and insulting. ioi has every right to ban someone for a statement like that, and the extended ban was certainly warranted by his actions after that. Sorry if you disagree, but that was his judgment call, and it was certainly an insult no matter how you look at it; no matter what the text he typed after that said.



Final-Fan on 20 October 2007
Soriku said:
This thread gives me a headache...

Can we just move on? Just be happy you were not banned.

Er... are YOU happy you were not banned?  There would be equal justification (that is, none). 

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan on 20 October 2007
Soriku said:
Final-Fan said:
Soriku said:
This thread gives me a headache...

Can we just move on? Just be happy you were not banned.

Er... are YOU happy you were not banned? There would be equal justification (that is, none).

Did I ever insult the site?


 Did I?



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Around the Network
naznatips on 20 October 2007

Final-Fan respond to my post. If you can't defend the use of an insult before criticism, then you have your answer for why he was banned.



fkusumot on 20 October 2007
naznatips said:
Final-Fan, his post started with "This site is a joke." That's not a criticism, that's an insult. He started bad, he ended bad. That's all there is to it.

 To be fair there are a few people who have said similar things that have not been banned. I've read the forum rules several times and there are a few people who regularly make posts in contradiction with rules #1, #3 and #4 and they haven't been banned. You know, just saying.



I Blame Wii Fit!

Final-Fan on 20 October 2007
naznatips said:
For the record, a post starting with "This site is a joke" will get you banned on pretty much every gaming site on the internet. Valid criticism and unnecessary insults are not the same. If he wanted to criticize the site, that's not the way to do it at all. That's immature and insulting. ioi has every right to ban someone for a statement like that, and the extended ban was certainly warranted by his actions after that. Sorry if you disagree, but that was his judgment call, and it was certainly an insult no matter how you look at it; no matter what the text he typed after that said.

I don't know about the general ban threshold of "pretty much every gaming site on the internet", but saying "this site is a joke" doesn't seem bad enough to me to justify more that AT MOST a very brief ban -- say, one day as a stern warning.  Three months was a huge overreaction to a well-articulated post with no vulgarity and only that one mild insult. 

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

naznatips on 20 October 2007

If they weren't banned that was a mistake on the mod's part. FF asked what reasoning there was for the initial ban. I gave him that reasoning. Insulting the site is not criticizing the site. His post after the insult may have been criticism, but he started with an insult, which directly contradicts the forum rules, and common decency in general.



Final-Fan on 20 October 2007

I really am getting phsyically torn from the computer keyboard I am desperately typing this on, and will return later to address any posts postdating this one.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom!