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Forums - Website Topics - On Censorship (please don't censor this)

Mummelmann on 20 October 2007
Soriku said:
naznatips said:
DKII said:
Disagree all you want as long as it's in a respectful, constructive manner. And don't keep posting the same thing over and over again, our memories are not that poor. :p

Haha yeah, and yet the same few users keep comming back.

Anyway, I think this topic is proof that posting a criticism in an appropriate and respectful manner (ala Final-Fan) is fine, but posting it in an insulting and inappropriate manner, and then continuing to post it after that, is not. Seriously if you guys think the mods are tough on this forum you haven't been around much. People get banned on gamefaqs for saying Aeris dies...


Please don't remind me of the GameFAQs mods >_< They can ban you for the SMALLEST things like "Aeris dies" or "You guys are noobs" (which isn't offensive) and sometimes posting some news (lol). Heck, double posts are modded too.


 Yeah, they're infamous for banning, so many users moved away and into Gamespot instead (which is full of morons...). Game-Quaida is a more suitable name for the site.  I was a member of Streetfire for a while as well, and one of the users there was banned for a typo!! He wrote "wanker" instead of "wankel" when referring to an engine, that's the kind of modding no one respects.



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Final-Fan on 20 October 2007
ioi said:
If my decision to ban Crucial isn't justified by his posts then I don't know what is. I looked back through his post history and he has a bad attitude. I don't want people like him on my site.

I will leave his comments up here to support the point.

I have been experimenting with a new ban system and obviously it does have a loophole, and a very easy one to fix so bye bye Crucial!


Well, the whole point of this is that his behavior AFTER THE BAN was sufficient cause to ban him. But you banned him in the first place for no good reason at all that I can see.

You created this monster, ioi.

[edit: I also have looked at his posts and although he does have strong opinions, he never got into screaming matches or resorted to vulgarity or even succumbed to "caps lock syndrome". Honestly, after double-checking all his pre-ban posts, I have no idea why you think he had more of a "bad attitude" than 80 to 90% of the users on this site. Hell, if he hadn't run afoul of you, I'd say that his knowledge, expertise, and courtesy would have made him a very respected and valued member of this site, if not a mod!]



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan on 20 October 2007
shams said:
All looks good to me.

If people aren't willing to respect the rules and community on this forum - they shouldn't be here - pure and simple. Go elsewhere.

shams, did you look at the post he was initially banned for? 

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

BenKenobi88 on 20 October 2007

It doesn't matter anymore...he's become a general nuisance, and the point is moot.



LEFT4DEAD411.COM
Bet with disolitude: Left4Dead will have a higher Metacritic rating than Project Origin, 3 months after the second game's release.  (hasn't been 3 months but it looks like I won :-p )

Final-Fan on 20 October 2007
ioi said:

Oh and all those who sent those messages will have to tread very carefully from now on as well

Well, one person.

Reasons for bans are now added to profiles. Banned users are banned plain and simple, they will be logged out and not allowed to even view old messages etc anymore - gets rid of any loopholes and makes my life easier anyway.

Any more questions?


One person, GearsofGods, won't be treading anywhere on this site with a 3-year ban.  What he said was completely inappropriate, but since it was not a post but rather a private message to which the recipient did not object, I don't know why he should be banned except that you are personally offended by comments critical of yourself. 

So: 
For what reason was Crucial banned?  Please come up with something better or at least more specific than "bad attitude" unless you wish to declare that you consider yourself able to ban anyone at any time for any reason or none.  For that matter, why is "bad attitude" worth a three-month ban?

Why was GearsofGods' private message to someone, which was very insulting to a third party but neither objected to by the recipient nor in any way conspiring against this site or any of its users or mods, sufficient cause to earn him a nearly three year long ban? 

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

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Final-Fan on 20 October 2007
BenKenobi88 said:
It doesn't matter anymore...he's become a general nuisance, and the point is moot.

I very strongly disagree.  Plenty of U.S. Supreme Court cases haven't ultimately mattered as to the individuals in question:  Dredd Scott was going to be freed anyway, but the point of law the case was arguing was very important. 

Crucial is currently banned for three months.  This is appropriate given his behavior since he was banned.  But the ban was inappropriate in the first place given his behavior before he was banned. 

How can discussing what went wrong, with an eye towards formulating rules to prevent it from happening again, be undesirable? 

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

BenKenobi88 on 20 October 2007

Final-Fan, why are you making such a huge deal out of this?

Crucial gave himself plenty of reasons to keep a ban after-the-fact...he was just generally being a jerk.

Can't we just move on? Bans are bans...they're not allowed to post on an internet forum...we're not banishing them to an island or anything...I don't see what all the drama is about.



LEFT4DEAD411.COM
Bet with disolitude: Left4Dead will have a higher Metacritic rating than Project Origin, 3 months after the second game's release.  (hasn't been 3 months but it looks like I won :-p )

Dejackso on 20 October 2007
Final-Fan said:
BenKenobi88 said:
It doesn't matter anymore...he's become a general nuisance, and the point is moot.

I very strongly disagree.  Plenty of U.S. Supreme Court cases haven't ultimately mattered as to the individuals in question:  Dredd Scott was going to be freed anyway, but the point of law the case was arguing was very important. 

Crucial is currently banned for three months.  This is appropriate given his behavior since he was banned.  But the ban was inappropriate in the first place given his behavior before he was banned. 

How can discussing what went wrong, with an eye towards formulating rules to prevent it from happening again, be undesirable? 

Did you just compare the Dred Scott case to a person being banned on a message board?  You do realize that Dred Scott lost his case to become an American citizen and was, in fact, returned as property. 



"Human equality is a contingent fact of history. Equality is not true by definition; it is neither an ethical principle (though equal treatment may be) nor a statement about norms of social action. It just worked out that way. A hundred different and plausible scenarios for human history would have yielded other results (and moral dilemmas of enormous magnitude). They didn't happen." - Stephen Jay Gould

Systems I currently own (in order of preference): PS2, SNES, Gamecube, Xbox 360, Genesis, Nintendo DS, PSX, XBOX, Wii, PS3,  Atari 5200, Turbo-Grafx 16, NES, Gameboy, Game Gear, 32X.

BenKenobi88 on 20 October 2007

"How can discussing what went wrong, with an eye towards formulating rules to prevent it from happening again, be undesirable?"

There's really not much to discuss. There are rules set in place already...do you have a suggestion for additional rules? Like I said, if you've got a problem with it, take it up with a head moderator or ioi. Obviously, ioi has deemed the ban final, and that's that. Bringing up Supreme Court arguments in an online forum is nearly laughable in my opinion.



LEFT4DEAD411.COM
Bet with disolitude: Left4Dead will have a higher Metacritic rating than Project Origin, 3 months after the second game's release.  (hasn't been 3 months but it looks like I won :-p )

naznatips on 20 October 2007

Final-Fan, his post started with "This site is a joke." That's not a criticism, that's an insult. He started bad, he ended bad. That's all there is to it.