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Forums - Sales Discussion - PS3 will never beat 360 this generation.

Carl on 09 October 2009
tuscaniman said:
119,000 preorders is below average in my opinion. Those are your diehard Tekken/fighting genre fans. I am also a diehard fighting genre fan myself but If Tekken sells 2 million copies total in NA over both consoles I'd be surprised. Like I said MW2 comes out the SAME DAY which I just now realized. With that being the case I take it back and say I'll be surprised if Tekken sells 1 million. MW2 will dominate sales and everyone will be spending their time and money on that game. I also want to know how many of those 119,000 are system sellers? I'm guessing 0 since if they preordered the game they already have the system. You can't say ODST wasn't a system seller with over 2 million preorders but Tekken will be a system seller with 119,000 preorders. Just doesn't add up. Tekken is not gonna make an impact in this console war.

According to the preorder charts MW2 releases 2 weeks after Tekken.

And it is the first Tekken on this gens hardware, ODST was the 3rd Halo.

And you keep on missing it... Tekken will be BUNDLED.



                            

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Carl on 09 October 2009
loves2splooge said:
Carl2291 said:
loves2splooge said:
The PS3 introduced a new redesign AND introduced a much more impressive price cut and yet they can barely stay over 360 in Americas after 1 month (week of oct 3rd's sales figures are very close now). That is not a good sign.

Worldwide, you'd think that the PS3 would catch up eventually but the MS has more options they can consider at this point to stay competitive. The 360 price cut doesn't even hold a candle to the PS3 price cut so MS has a lot more room to initiate further cuts. The entry cost for a PS3 is now $300, instead of $400 and you get 50% more HD space AND a slim redesign added bonus (80 to 120) whereas the entry cost for a 360 is still $300 (you just have double the hard drive space for that price now). And no the Arcade doesn't count because it's a very barebones system that's only good for offline. Sony really went all-out with this huge price cut and since their system costs more to make than a 360 (Blu-Ray, Wi-Fi, Cell processor is more expensive), we know Sony is bleeding much more than Microsoft is on their hardware. Heck MS might not even be bleeding at all on hardware anymore. Microsoft can easily counter with a $50 price cut if they really wanted to. In fact they should. It would take the wind out of the PS3's sails in Europe/Others, the swing region warzone. Whatever they do, MS is not just going to sit there while Sony eats away at their lead in Europe/Others. Japan is already lost (though they shouldn't give up on Japan. They improved quite a bit from last gen), America is already in the bag so you know Europe/Others will be a priority for them. That's where the race will be won or lost.

With MS having deeper pockets and cheaper hardware, red inked Sony doesn't want to play the price slashing game with them. MS can eat the losses no problem whereas Sony's shareholders would be calling for their head if they bled the company further. Sony really made a big desperation move releasing a slim with 50% more HD space at $100 off.

Red- It is the PS3's weakest market and the 360's strongest market. Many were expecting it to be below the 360 there by week 2... And it has done very well staying above 360 thus far.

Orange- Sony also still have a bunch of options.

Green- Yes it does count. It get's counted in sales so it also gets counted in "analysis". 360 entry price is $150.

Blue- They already did try counter with a pricecut, and it didn't work. The next 360 pricecut wont arrive until Natal launches. By that time PS3 manufacturing costs will likely be lower. Hey, guess what... We might even see another small PS3 pricecut or new SKU.

Pink- They dont need to play the price slashing game. They have huge momentum right now and will outsell the 360 by a LOT for the rest of the year. Going into next year Sony has it's biggest ip: Gran Turismo 5 and a LOAD of other big games that will increase hardware both slightly and by a lot. PS3 will consistantly outsell 360 until Natal launch, which is where we will see the next 360 pricecut.

The Arcade does not count as real competition. It is a very barebones system. 256MB, 512 MB or whatever space the memory unit offers is nothing. Only good for offline because there's no HDD or headset. And it doesn't come with HD cables either. This is why the Arcade sku is much less popular than the Elite. And where are you getting $150? It's $200.

Didn't you listen to what I said? The 360 price cut was a joke compared to the PS3 price cut. All they did was double the hard drive space for the same price. The PS3 on the other hand dropped by $100 and they added 50% more HD space to boot and a redesign. Don't even compare the two cuts. And like I said, considering PS3 has Blu-Ray, Wi-Fi and their processor is more costly (Cell), Sony is losing a lot more on the hardware even though they're being sold at the same price. MS can afford to cut the price even more (with 360 being cheaper to manufacture) and it will make a difference if they do. Sony has the advantage because they are selling more (Blu-Ray, Wi-Fi) for the same price. If MS goes without a price cut (or at least some other trick under their sleeve) until NATAL, they'd be idiots. In Americas, it's not a concern because the Xbox brand is strong over there. But in Europe it's obvious that the more impressive PS3 price cut made the difference. The market in Europe has clearly decided that the Xbox is overpriced (why else would they jump ship to PS3 instead of stay with 360 if the 360 price cut was supposedly just as effective?). The Elite should be $249. And if Sony wants to follow down to that price point and lose even more money, their shareholders aren't gonna be too happy.

The arcade is still counted in the sales though. So it also counts as "competition". Or shall we stop counting Arcade sales with the 360 total now?

The 360 pricecut was advertised as a pricecut. No matter how much they cut, or changes they made... It was still a cut.



                            

FinalEvangelion on 09 October 2009

You all really think this is the smallest Sony can make the PS3? Notice that Sony doesn't call it the PS3 Slim themselves, but only the press and consumers? We'll see in 2011.



"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."  --Hermann Goering, leading Nazi party member, at the Nuremberg War Crime Trials 

 

Conservatives:  Pushing for a small enough government to be a guest in your living room, or even better - your uterus.

 

s.l.o.w. on 09 October 2009

I think sony ps3 will beat 360 sooner or later because the 360 hardware is a s#!t ,i had a 360 after a week it gave me problems so i send my 360 to repair, M$ took a fuc<!NG month to repair it my ps3 has never done that to me. Plus halo3odst and forza vs UNCHARTED 2 , KZ2 , infamous , demons souls.

sorry for bad english.



Carl on 09 October 2009
Ronster316 said:
tuscaniman said:
I haven't seen this point brought up yet and I apologize if I'm repeating an opinion that has already been expressed but just how big a system seller will Forza 3 be? I think with all the great reviews combined with the holiday season combined with the GT5 players tired of waiting for GT5 itself I think it will push some consoles. Especially in EU. Why wait 5 months for a racing sim that may not be any better than Forza 3 which is out now? Especially when its available for the holidays. The time people actually have some spending money.


Microsoft have delivered this gen................ thats the BOTTOM LINE__________________________

Two Gears of wars.............. (Epic Games delivered them)

Two Halo's....... (FPS Halo)

Two Forzas...........

Two Left 4 Deads........ (Valve delivered)

Two Project gotham racings..........

And soon it will be..............

Three Gears of Wars (NOT THIS GENERATION + Delivered by Epic Games)

Two Fables

And Three Halo's

Fixed for accuracy.



                            

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tuscaniman on 09 October 2009

Ok I'm done talking about Tekken 6. What new innovations is this game bringing to the table anyways? Destructible floors when your player hits the ground after a takedown? I don't know about you but If I fell on the ground or was even thrown on the ground and concrete around me exploded like a tank was dropped out of a plane I'd be worried about the buildings stability. Tekken 6 will push 0 systems in NA. If the bundles sell in NA its because they cost the same as a PS3 without a game. If it costs more then a PS3 then it won't sell.



mundus6 on 09 October 2009
loves2splooge said:
Carl2291 said:
loves2splooge said:
The PS3 introduced a new redesign AND introduced a much more impressive price cut and yet they can barely stay over 360 in Americas after 1 month (week of oct 3rd's sales figures are very close now). That is not a good sign.

Worldwide, you'd think that the PS3 would catch up eventually but the MS has more options they can consider at this point to stay competitive. The 360 price cut doesn't even hold a candle to the PS3 price cut so MS has a lot more room to initiate further cuts. The entry cost for a PS3 is now $300, instead of $400 and you get 50% more HD space AND a slim redesign added bonus (80 to 120) whereas the entry cost for a 360 is still $300 (you just have double the hard drive space for that price now). And no the Arcade doesn't count because it's a very barebones system that's only good for offline. Sony really went all-out with this huge price cut and since their system costs more to make than a 360 (Blu-Ray, Wi-Fi, Cell processor is more expensive), we know Sony is bleeding much more than Microsoft is on their hardware. Heck MS might not even be bleeding at all on hardware anymore. Microsoft can easily counter with a $50 price cut if they really wanted to. In fact they should. It would take the wind out of the PS3's sails in Europe/Others, the swing region warzone. Whatever they do, MS is not just going to sit there while Sony eats away at their lead in Europe/Others. Japan is already lost (though they shouldn't give up on Japan. They improved quite a bit from last gen), America is already in the bag so you know Europe/Others will be a priority for them. That's where the race will be won or lost.

With MS having deeper pockets and cheaper hardware, red inked Sony doesn't want to play the price slashing game with them. MS can eat the losses no problem whereas Sony's shareholders would be calling for their head if they bled the company further. Sony really made a big desperation move releasing a slim with 50% more HD space at $100 off.

Red- It is the PS3's weakest market and the 360's strongest market. Many were expecting it to be below the 360 there by week 2... And it has done very well staying above 360 thus far.

Orange- Sony also still have a bunch of options.

Green- Yes it does count. It get's counted in sales so it also gets counted in "analysis". 360 entry price is $150.

Blue- They already did try counter with a pricecut, and it didn't work. The next 360 pricecut wont arrive until Natal launches. By that time PS3 manufacturing costs will likely be lower. Hey, guess what... We might even see another small PS3 pricecut or new SKU.

Pink- They dont need to play the price slashing game. They have huge momentum right now and will outsell the 360 by a LOT for the rest of the year. Going into next year Sony has it's biggest ip: Gran Turismo 5 and a LOAD of other big games that will increase hardware both slightly and by a lot. PS3 will consistantly outsell 360 until Natal launch, which is where we will see the next 360 pricecut.

The Arcade does not count as real competition. It is a very barebones system. 256MB, 512 MB or whatever space the memory unit offers is nothing. Only good for offline because there's no HDD or headset. And it doesn't come with HD cables either. This is why the Arcade sku is much less popular than the Elite. And where are you getting $150? It's $200.

Didn't you listen to what I said? The 360 price cut was a joke compared to the PS3 price cut. All they did was double the hard drive space for the same price. The PS3 on the other hand dropped by $100 and they added 50% more HD space to boot and a redesign. Don't even compare the two cuts. And like I said, considering PS3 has Blu-Ray, Wi-Fi and their processor is more costly (Cell), Sony is losing a lot more on the hardware even though they're being sold at the same price. MS can afford to cut the price even more (with 360 being cheaper to manufacture) and it will make a difference if they do. Sony has the advantage because they are selling more (Blu-Ray, Wi-Fi) for the same price. If MS goes without a price cut (or at least some other trick under their sleeve) until NATAL, they'd be idiots. In Americas, it's not a concern because the Xbox brand is strong over there. But in Europe it's obvious that the more impressive PS3 price cut made the difference. The market in Europe has clearly decided that the Xbox is overpriced (why else would they jump ship to PS3 instead of stay with 360 if the 360 price cut was supposedly just as effective?). The Elite should be $249. And if Sony wants to follow down to that price point and lose even more money, their shareholders aren't gonna be too happy.

Although you make some valid points, you forget that the 360 elite is like $100-$150 cheaper than the PS3 slim here in Europe. So i dont think us europeans are concerned with the 360s price. Playstation is just a bigger brand over here and as you said 360 didn't really get a price cut just 60GB bigger HDD. Previously the PS3 was more than $200 more expensive than a 360 pro.



Carl on 09 October 2009
tuscaniman said:
Ok I'm done talking about Tekken 6. What new innovations is this game bringing to the table anyways? Destructible floors when your player hits the ground after a takedown? I don't know about you but If I fell on the ground or was even thrown on the ground and concrete around me exploded like a tank was dropped out of a plane I'd be worried about the buildings stability. Tekken 6 will push 0 systems in NA. If the bundles sell in NA its because they cost the same as a PS3 without a game. If it costs more then a PS3 then it won't sell.

I give up with you... You are worse than Ronster.



                            

Ronster316 on 09 October 2009
Carl2291 said:
Ronster316 said:
Carl2291 said:
Ronster316 said:
Carl2291 said:
loves2splooge said:
The PS3 introduced a new redesign AND introduced a much more impressive price cut and yet they can barely stay over 360 in Americas after 1 month (week of oct 3rd's sales figures are very close now). That is not a good sign.

Worldwide, you'd think that the PS3 would catch up eventually but the MS has more options they can consider at this point to stay competitive. The 360 price cut doesn't even hold a candle to the PS3 price cut so MS has a lot more room to initiate further cuts. The entry cost for a PS3 is now $300, instead of $400 and you get 50% more HD space AND a slim redesign added bonus (80 to 120) whereas the entry cost for a 360 is still $300 (you just have double the hard drive space for that price now). And no the Arcade doesn't count because it's a very barebones system that's only good for offline. Sony really went all-out with this huge price cut and since their system costs more to make than a 360 (Blu-Ray, Wi-Fi, Cell processor is more expensive), we know Sony is bleeding much more than Microsoft is on their hardware. Heck MS might not even be bleeding at all on hardware anymore. Microsoft can easily counter with a $50 price cut if they really wanted to. In fact they should. It would take the wind out of the PS3's sails in Europe/Others, the swing region warzone. Whatever they do, MS is not just going to sit there while Sony eats away at their lead in Europe/Others. Japan is already lost (though they shouldn't give up on Japan. They improved quite a bit from last gen), America is already in the bag so you know Europe/Others will be a priority for them. That's where the race will be won or lost.

With MS having deeper pockets and cheaper hardware, red inked Sony doesn't want to play the price slashing game with them. MS can eat the losses no problem whereas Sony's shareholders would be calling for their head if they bled the company further. Sony really made a big desperation move releasing a slim with 50% more HD space at $100 off.

Red- It is the PS3's weakest market and the 360's strongest market. Many were expecting it to be below the 360 there by week 2... And it has done very well staying above 360 thus far.

Orange- Sony also still have a bunch of options.

Green- Yes it does count. It get's counted in sales so it also gets counted in "analysis". 360 entry price is $150.

Blue- They already did try counter with a pricecut, and it didn't work. The next 360 pricecut wont arrive until Natal launches. By that time PS3 manufacturing costs will likely be lower. Hey, guess what... We might even see another small PS3 pricecut or new SKU.

Pink- They dont need to play the price slashing game. They have huge momentum right now and will outsell the 360 by a LOT for the rest of the year. Going into next year Sony has it's biggest ip: Gran Turismo 5 and a LOAD of other big games that will increase hardware both slightly and by a lot. PS3 will consistantly outsell 360 until Natal launch, which is where we will see the next 360 pricecut.


As i said before............ Gran turismo 5= BIG hardware boost.

God of War 3= Boost yes........ but only a small one like Fable II's boost (especially considering that Fable II has already caught GOW up in terms of sales after only ONE year)

As for the rest............ Heavy Rain? (A Shenmue wannabe and we all unfortunately know how poorly Shenmue I & II sold)

MAG?= wont do anything

Ratchet and clank= Good boost but nothing to write home about

Basically any of the sony games (apart from GT 5) above could easily be outsold by the likes of Fable III, Crackdown 2 or Splinter cell: Conviction.

Red- A boost is a boost, it will be pretty substantial too. It will get a lot of media attention for obvious reasons... And it is Sony's game that seem's to cater mainly to the American audience. It will give a good boost in NA, and a small one in Others.

Green- No, no it isn't. The game is already getting a fuck load of media attention and Sony seem to be hyping it up to be the next big thing. While it won't sell much... It could still provide a boost.

Blue- MAG already has 51,000 preorders in NA alone with 16 week's to go until release. Don't count it out just yet...

Pink- It's not about "outselling". It's about the HW boost that game will bring. And i could say the exact same thing about any of the Sony games easily outselling Fable 3, Crackdown 2 or Splinter Cell: Conviction.

By the way, if LBP and KZ2 have sold poorly... Why do you mention Crackdown 2 when the original "only" managed 1.5 Million sales?

I don't do color schemes..................

RED= did Fable II sell consoles despite it been the first Fable on the 360? NO....... So how will God of War 3 sell consoles when it sold 3.21 million and Fable II is already at 3.16 million......... sorry , i'm just using logic on that one buddy.

Green........ media attention or hype do not = sales, Haze? Too human? ect ect. (Besides, Shenmue had lots of hype and it didn't convert in to sales based on the final numbers of Dreamcasts sold)

Bliue= 51,000 sales? for all we know somthing like RISEN could sell as well as MAG

Pink= You think MAG, Ratchet ect can match Alan wake and Slpinter cell: conviction? i highly doubt that.

LBP and Killzone were hyped like there is NO TOMORROW......... LBP was even featured on the Jonathon Ross show and many media outlets and STILL barely sold over 2 million........ Killzone? oh, you mean "That" Halo killer? LOL

Red- It did, just not majorly. Fable also isn't a AAA franchise, GoW is. There are several factors.

Green- POSITIVE media attention. Haze and Too Human never recieved the amount of praise that Heavy Rain is getting and neither were something new to the industry like Heavy Rain is shaping up to be. Sony showing so much attention to it guarentee's it is being set up for good advertising.

Blue- 51,000 preorders in one region... with 16 weeks left until release. For all we know 3D Dot Game Heroes could sell as well as Splinter Cell.

Pink- No, i think the whole library i mentioned can outsell Alan Wake(New IP) and Splinter Cell: Conviction(Sequel to a game that sold 1.14M)

Bolded- LBP is still selling 20-25k a week and is at 2.43 Million sales, i would hardly call that "barely" over 2 Million. Killzone 2 is also selling 20-25k a week and is about to hit 2 Million units sold in under a year. Which for both games is very good. What makes you think Sony wont advertise other games like they did those ones?


Red= Fable is SOLID AA title.......... will one extra A mean all that much? Shenmue is AAA and look where that is now.

Green= Positve doesn't always result in a good game or good sales does it, people initially said Haze was going to be AMAZING LOL........ even a potential Halo killer (ha ha ha)

Blue= Any number of low to middle range 360 exclusives like Prey 2 could outsell both 3D dot and  MAG for all we know......

Pink= Splinter cell: Double agent was on FIVE consoles (PS2, Gamecube, xbox, ps3 and 360) it will easily outsell the likes of MAG and 3D dot blah blah

Bolded- You mean LPB is selling again due to the boost in ps3 hardware sales thanks to the slim hype right?



Rawnchie14 on 09 October 2009

Anything could happen.  While 360 has some leverage in the future, PS3's picking up at last, with the low price.

Gap should be closed, but not as quick as people think.