The Wii graphics are outdated as of this moment.

And you didn't even pick a different name, tsk tsk tsk...

wow. i never mentioned price. maybe i should have, but dont accuse me of dismissing price as a factor when i actually neglected to mention it at all. i realize price is a factor, obviously more PS3s would sell if they were the same price as a Wii, but would they win? not right now they wouldnt. wiis would still have sold the same amount and PS3s would probably still be 2mil behind. but thats impossible to say. yea, but zelda has outsold all those games. i never mentioned red steal, its an alright game and got alright reviews, im sure resistence is a better game. although im sure many prefer red steel simply from the new game expirience it brings, but i wont get into that. i dont agree with your statement about excite truck, though. when i said the ps3 doesnt have any gameplay, that came out wrong. gameplay is the big thing, wii has new gameplay, and great gameplay. all ps3 arguers say is about graphics, i overreacted and said ps3 doesnt have gameplay, although it just has the old game play. here is the thing, wii can have the exact same gameplay as the ps3. but it can also have a completly new expirience. thats why its so great. it didnt do away with the old gameplay, it just added on a new way. games dont have to do the motion sensitive thing, its just there for big or small things that can add to the game. like you said, "The PS3 plays games just like we have always played them" for the past 20 some years. for the past 20 years, adding on better graphics and a bigger and better processor has been enough. then online play. all those were big jumps, just like someones post on here talked about. now, going to HD is a small jump, and online play is basically at a stand still. its good, not getting better. had nintendo just done what all the other consoles did, try to get the best graphics, sony would have won, nintendo and microsoft would have been basically tied for 2nd. even if nintendos nothing special system would have been $250, it would have still lost to sony. sony has been leading for years, so with nothing special out of the bunch, things would have basically continued. but nintendo didnt, they decided to do something different. and it got them a heavy lead in the console race, we will see about the xbox. just like with the DS, nintendo didnt do the same old thing and thats another reason it beat out the PSP. o, and BTW, the pokemon games are great. i still buy them, and im 17, call me a loser all you want, im not into pokemon, but those are good games. they sell alot because they are good. your saying that just becuase a game sells alot, doesnt mean its good, then you use pokemon as an example? bad example, i bet most everyone on here would agree, the pokemon series is a very good one, and i bet most poeple on here of any age and with a DS are considering buying one or have already preordered one of them.

Before i start, let me tell you this, after this post, i'm not gonna reply to all the points cause i'm tired of writing huge messages.

I actually thought it was pretty obvious... How do you think killer apps became killer apps? People were interested before they came out, and sold millions even though no one had played them before. There have always been fans even before the games were out, and i'm sure no one can deny that. I see some kind of contradiction here, your first point can be applied to my point, just let me change some words on your post. "If God of War got so many great reviews, then it must be better in some way to win all those awards." Well, you were right, i am like "Are you teh blind?", but for different reasons, i asked for a God of War 2 HD video, not nintendo games... Whatever... If i cant make you see it, fine... But there's another thing, just because it happens doesn't mean they are right, they weren't discussing about the same thing, so are able to write whatever they want, but i'd still be right because they are discussing about a different thing. How can i be wrong about something i never said? Your concept of fanboyism is soooo wrong... Since when does liking those games make you fanboy? Hell, if Microsoft made them i'd like them too, in fact, they DO make games i like, but i only buy 1 console per generation. I really didn't think anyone would care, if those things actually offend you, you should go outside more often. I had more to say on this one, but i'm gonna keep this short. Its funny, you said graphics were opinions yet you wrote that as a fact. Contradiction? Yes. If you wanna focus on the insults and actually think i HAD (not have) a point just because i called him a retard, you are wrong. My point still stands. I believe the game you are talking about is MotorStorm not Motorsports... Now, you don't even know the name so this tells me you are not informed about the things you are talking about. MotorStorm is one of the highest rated PS3 games, and second best seller, just behind Resistance. And i'd like you to show me where they rated it as bad gameplay, actually, MotorStorm key points are Gameplay + Graphics, perfect combination. The only downside is the lack of features, and that's not a big problem, Evolution Studios already said they will release new maps, and new modes on the next months. But one line that i couldn't believe was this one: "Most people don't find them fun becuase the things that mad them fun on the PS2, are los in the Cell processor, but this is kind of an opinion" WHAT???? How many sequels from PS2 games are currently available for PS3? I can only think of Sports games which are the same, not worse or anything, and i'd say better. The big sequels haven't been released, once again i think you are not informed about the topic. Also, how can those thing "be lost in the Cell processor"? I know you said it was an opinion but explain anyway, it doesn't take anything away, it adds more stuff... Your comment really doesn't make any sense, i'd like you to explain. I'm confused, first you say, "not right now they wouldn't" (note that you are saying it as a fact, i didn't know you had the ability to see something that didn't happen) then you say it's impossible to say? Whoa... terrible point, terrible. Zelda is an old franchise, OF COURSE its gonna sell better, NOT a surprise. Almsot everyone who got a Wii bought Zelda, i know 2 guys who own Wiis, both of them got Zelda. Also, there are more Wiis out there, if there weren't more Zeldas, it would be a failure. And my statement about excite truck? there's nothing to agree/disagree with, it is a fact, most people prefer Motorstorm. Reviews and sales show i'm right, and this time, even though the Wii has more units out there, Excite Truck doesn't even win. *I'd like to mention the official sales for MotorStorm are not out, but we DO know that it's the second PS3 best seller, and that would be more than Excite Truck. Please, next time use paragraphs. This is where i think most nintendo fans are wrong, you assume that because it has the motion sensing controller it's good gameplay, it's not. News: There are Wii games with bad gameplay, in fact many. And you also assume that the PS3 is all about the graphics and all the games have terrible gameplay. Another thing that you never see, is that more powerful consoles, better graphics and all those things can make the gameplay better. Do you think MotorStorm would be fun on the Wii? No it wouldn't, because the Wii can't handle those physics or graphics. I think this game is a perfect example of graphics being part of the gameplay. where have you been living? The reason why those games sold that much was the TV show of course they would have sold a decent ammount without it but i'm pretty sure not so much. And notice that i said "they would be the BEST" not very good, they might be good, but far from the BEST. Read my post right next time. That took a while, like i said, i'm not gonna write that much from now on.

Wow, when did this topic become so spazzed? All of the arguments here are just stupid, i've read through this entire thread twice and I cannot make sense of anyone... both are talking about their side of the argument at the other person but really not bringing anything new to the table other than personal opinion. I don't even know what to say or where to start. The Wii's graphics are outdated by 'graphics' terms, but does that matter? No I don't think so, not in the grander scheme. I think the Wii60 or the WiiS3 effect will be a great one. Arguing personal opinions on graphics and art style is stupid... if one game was SO great and was 'perfect' they why wouldn't everyone buy it? People should understand ESPECIALLY KAMAHL that Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft are targeting different people. It really is Sony vs Microsoft with Nintendo off to the side on this one. What is the point of arguing the power of the Wii against the PS3 or the 360? It's pointless, there is only one way it can go. Motorstorm and Resistance suit the PS3 target quite well I think, but that's something a lot of Nintendo fans don't get, they try it and don't like it and can't understand why it's popular (i personally think the game is totally crappola but that's my personal opinion - oh and it looks okay to good). Nintendo is going for Nintendo Fanboys with their key titles like SMG, MP3 SSBB, Paper Mario etc while also going for 'non-gamers' which Sony and Microsoft aren't really capitalising on. There is a greater portion of 'non-gamers' than gamers in the population. And the points about HDTV and SDTV penetration? What the? 18% penetration is what I understand the US to be at, at the moment, 50% of TV's purchased are HDTV's last year... great excellent, 100% of the population bought TV's last year? YEAH RIGHT. If 50% of TV's purchased were HDTV's and there is 18% penetration of HDTV's then that means 36% of the population bought new TV's last year?? again YEAH RIGHT. Realistically 20% or LESS of the population bought new TV's last year and therefore 50% of these purchases may have been HDTV's which then gives 10% of the population buying HDTV's last year. Take out the rich people who upgrade to a new and better TV every one or two years, or buying a second or third one for a household and you maybe have 5% of the population buying new HDTV's which means the maximum that the HDTV penetration can reach by the end of 2007 if it continues at the same rate is 23% - albeit it will probably increase in rate, and therefore maybe 30% of homes will have HDTV's. This leaves 66 million people with HDTV's. 43 million people bought PS3's in America, that's less than 30% of the total population that had TV's purchased a PS2. Therefore its safe to assume that this number is the maximum percentile of a group that will purchase a console, this drops because of the price and other things but that's another argument. If we take 30% of 66 million that leaves 19.8 million. This figure is a rough guide as to the MAXIMUM user or sales number the PS3 can achieve (without taking into consideration a LOT of things). 19.8 million people aren't going to buy a PS3 for MGS4 or FFXIII or Motorstorm or ANY of those games, so they need a broad range of games to cater for this 19.8 million people. Take everything I just said with a grain of salt as all of my points are rhetorical with no real figures to back them up, but using the numbers both sides of the argument have sprouted it's better to look at the TOTAL equation. I haven't taken into account things like the people who will buy 360 or PS3 and use it on an SDTV, there will be many I am sure, but then the appeal of the console goes away somewhat because the HD benefit is much larger. Lets now calculate the possible user base for the Wii... actually lets not, you can get my point.

So someone is going to buy a $600 system because 8 days 2 Vegas, a game that very little is known about, may be good? Few people will by a system or one, unreleased game. It may factor into their thought process but it sure as hell won't be as big a factor as price. Killer apps become killer apps after release, not before.

This doesn't make sense. Lots of people talk of the Wii graphics being outdated. This "outdated graphics" thing is just a fad from fanboys. Because it's just a matter of opinion. Yes, "outdated graphics" are not a fact, but merely an opinion. For it to be a fact, someone would have to come with a definition of "outdated graphics", and so far, noone provided one. Spotting someone saying Wii has "outdated graphics" is, for now, just an easy way to spot a fanboy, or worse, a troll or a shill. I'm waiting for the definition of "outdated graphics" though. BTW, SD is still far from outdated, it's the current gen, as TV is mostly SD in most of the world homes, and channels are not all turning HD anytime soon. That's one of the worst way to say that Nintendo is targeting a larger population. All this non-gamer talk, I can't understand it. But I know pretty well what's happening, and I hope Nintendo succeeds. I know also pretty well how hardcore gamers feel, as I've felt nearly the same once in another market. Basically, Nintendo is trying to make gaming a commodity. And, while gamers wanted more people to recognise gaming, and more people to join them, they thought all these new people would become hardcore like them. But it won't happen. People have different interests in life. The best that can be achieved, is commoditisation. You can already see this, when people talk about "watered down" games, or "simplified", "kiddy" games, all of this targeted at Nintendo. Nintendo seems to succeed in commoditizing the videogame industry. This should scare the hell out of the other players, as it means hardcore consoles will then be relegated to a niche market. Sony was participating in this strategy with their PS1 and PS2, when Nintendo derailed from it. Why did they change direction ? It's beyond me. Anyway, the Wii is back on track of commoditizing the market. Gaming will be a commodity, when everyone can buy and setup a console like they can buy and setup a TV, and have an incentive to buy a console (games they actually want to play).

I'm not quite sure what you are saying? RE: Outdated - I don't say that as though it is a bad thing. Outdated means it is mainly running on old hardware with old visual techniques and old methods for creating a picture. It's essentially a gamecube. The NES, SNES, N64, GCN all made their predecessor become 'out-dated' graphically. The Wii is not much of a step up from the GCN graphically (like the others) and therefore has been 'outdated' by the PS3 and Xbox 360. Does this mean the graphics on any of these systems are 'BAD'? I don't think so, they are just 'outdated' because they use old technology. Make sense? Nintendo had to change because they were slowly going the way of sega, each new platform performing worse than the last, they had to change their target demographic in order to succeed. The Nintendo idea of 'lets just make really good games' on the GameCube days didn't work. Lets just make a 'games' machine only, it didn't work. I think your understanding of the meaning of the word commodity is a bit off? I understand that it means 'a product which is bought or sold' just a product really... I think you mean mainstream 'everyone has' kind of thing? 'Mainstream' has effected every market in a negative way, well if you look at it from someone who has been there 'from the beginning'. Eyetoy, Singstar, Guitar Hero, Buzz Quiz - these AREN'T these types of items? I feel like MANY things that I have been interested in from my childhood have grown into 'mainstream' things and been destroyed by it. Drifting and Motor Racing, Videogames, Music, Movies... everything in all of these industries is 'commercialised' it's the way of the world and you have to accept that. Nintendo aren't backing Sony and Microsoft into a niche, Sony and Microsoft and backing THEMSELVES into a niche. I like Nintendo gamers games, always have, always will, they always play really well, but I also like Hardcore games as well, RPG's, FPS, and most of these games will be seen on the PS3 and X360. Therefore Nintendo isn't really suiting me PROPERLY at the moment until more of there gamers games come out, their 'casual' games don't suit me.

i really hate it when people refer to the wii as a nongamers console as well. i know its not necesarily supposed to be negative or insulting, but i still think its wrong. when playing games with a regular controller, you use your index fingers and your thumbs, rarely any other finger. for the wii, SOMETIMES the wrist is involved, sometimes its involved alot. its not like the wiimote is just a stick with motion sensitivity in it, it has regular buttons and an analog stick, uses the same fingers to push these buttons, and alos has a classic controller that has many many more buttons in the standard way controllers are. take zelda for example, its hardly different from previous zeldas as far as gaming is concerned. except you use your sword via movement, which works great, feels natural, and only adds to the gamming. its not a game non-gamers will like at all. its too complex and in depth. the wii is still for REGULAR GAMERS, it just ALSO targets people outside this gaming bubble. i dont like people saying the wii is for non gamers, people saying its not in the same race as PS3-xbox, and people saying the wiimote fad will fad. none of its true.

I don't think i've ever said that though have I? Or were you referring not to my post? I think that Nintendo tried to do things during the GameCube generation, and that was try to be slightly more mature but with a younger edge to it, while also TRYING to attract the mature market with games like Metroid Prime and Geist. They also tried to be different for the sake of being different, which was a mistake, it made them more niche and have less of a market. But what I think Nintendo has realised this generation is that it shouldn't fight against Microsoft and Sony for the market that they are fighting for, the so called 'mature' games market. They are 'letting them have that market' so to speak. That's not to say that those people wont buy a Wii, it's just going to have different types of games to them. Nintendo IS targeting a totally different market this time. When saying it's the non gamers console - it is - but no gamers games can still be a hell of a lot of fun. Simple addictive fun to pick up and play games is where it's at for the Wii, while also providing a range of Nintendo fan games... which suits me as I've said because I enjoy those games.