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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Hypothetically Speaking.. What would happen if FFXIII Flops?

wenlan on 23 September 2009
outlawauron said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:

FFXIII could very well fail in sales.  SE has placed way too much faith on this title.  Realistically, this title needs to sell over 2 million units just to make a solid profit.  And probably 3-4 million just to be a 'success'.  And even then, it's going to be less sales than DQIX will get, a DS title with a much lower development cost and international expectations.

Also, in reference to your points:

-Final Fantasy being 'JRPG flagship franchise' is arguable.  In Japan, its Dragon Quest.  In America, Final Fantasy already is losing dominance to series such as Namco's Tales series, Atlus titles such as Disgaea and of course, the machine that is known as Pokemon.

-WRPGs, while showing their own in quality games in recent years still aren't topping JRPGs in sales or sheer number of titles produced.

-Is Final Fantasy really half your Gaming line-up?  And will One failed game kill your gaming life?

-SquareEnix won't be finished by FFXIII.  It may be a good thing if FFXIII flopped.  They've been relying on FF for WAY too long, always making each next title more and more expensive and bigger, at the expense of all their other titles.

-Sure would.

Personally, I'm not rooting for FFXIII to fail, but SE DESPERATELY needs a dose of bitter medicine.  Their only idea of how to make money is 'throw more money into development' and 'make it with more FMVs'.  And I fear the only way their going to learn to change this practice is to have one of their flagship titles fail.

Come on now. Please don't tell me you actually believe that crap.

I think he does.....  Soriku effect is bigger than what we think.....

DQ is not the only flagship franchise for RPG in Japan.  DQ, FF, and Pokemon are the major 3 players in the RPG field, nothing can/will change that.  Their fanbase may overlap at certain level, but not completely.



It (PS3's market share) might hit 30%, but definently not more. ~ Neo

Flaming (Calling another user (any user) a fanboy is flaming.) ~ Machina-AX

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wenlan on 23 September 2009
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
outlawauron said:

Come on now. Please don't tell me you actually believe that crap.

Uh...many of the same people who are heavy console RPG fans play both series.  I already know countless people who have passed up major Final Fantasy releases for Tales games, Disgaea sequels, Persona, Fire Emblem or the other major title I named, Pokemon.  Why else do you think many of the Final Fantasy remakes and sequels as of late have been of such low sales (aside from the obvious oversaturation)?  FFIVDS, FFTactics Advance 2, FFTactics Remake, etc.  These all underperformed beyond expectations.

Wait, "countless"?  Let me see here, the last popular console FF game was FFX, which was released in 2001.  And a lot of people hate FFXII.

How many major FF games have those countless people you know passed up?



It (PS3's market share) might hit 30%, but definently not more. ~ Neo

Flaming (Calling another user (any user) a fanboy is flaming.) ~ Machina-AX

outlawauron on 23 September 2009
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
outlawauron said:

-Final Fantasy being 'JRPG flagship franchise' is arguable.  In Japan, its Dragon Quest.  In America, Final Fantasy already is losing dominance to series such as Namco's Tales series, Atlus titles such as Disgaea and of course, the machine that is known as Pokemon.

Come on now. Please don't tell me you actually believe that crap.

Uh...many of the same people who are heavy console RPG fans play both series.  I already know countless people who have passed up major Final Fantasy releases for Tales games, Disgaea sequels, Persona, Fire Emblem or the other major title I named, Pokemon.  Why else do you think many of the Final Fantasy remakes and sequels as of late have been of such low sales (aside from the obvious oversaturation)?  FFIVDS, FFTactics Advance 2, FFTactics Remake, etc.  These all underperformed beyond expectations.

lol, that's good. Compare the sales of remakes to the full fledged titles in their respective series. Let's see when Final Fantasy XIII sells more than every Tales game, every game Atlus has ever published, Fire Emblem, and I could go on.

Let me know whenever a Tale, a Disgaea, or Persona sells over 2 million in the West. Or even 2 million worldwide.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

1337 Gamer on 23 September 2009

then FF would die!



I mostly play RTS and Moba style games now adays as well as ALOT of benchmarking. I do play other games however such as the witcher 3 and Crysis 3, and recently Ashes of the Singularity. I love gaming on the cutting edge and refuse to accept any compromises. Proud member of the Glorious PC Gaming Master Race. Long Live SHIO!!!! 

Kenryoku_Maxis on 23 September 2009
outlawauron said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
outlawauron said:

-Final Fantasy being 'JRPG flagship franchise' is arguable.  In Japan, its Dragon Quest.  In America, Final Fantasy already is losing dominance to series such as Namco's Tales series, Atlus titles such as Disgaea and of course, the machine that is known as Pokemon.

Come on now. Please don't tell me you actually believe that crap.

Uh...many of the same people who are heavy console RPG fans play both series.  I already know countless people who have passed up major Final Fantasy releases for Tales games, Disgaea sequels, Persona, Fire Emblem or the other major title I named, Pokemon.  Why else do you think many of the Final Fantasy remakes and sequels as of late have been of such low sales (aside from the obvious oversaturation)?  FFIVDS, FFTactics Advance 2, FFTactics Remake, etc.  These all underperformed beyond expectations.

lol, that's good. Compare the sales of remakes to the full fledged titles in their respective series. Let's see when Final Fantasy XIII sells more than every Tales game, every game Atlus has ever published, Fire Emblem, and I could go on.

Let me know whenever a Tale, a Disgaea, or Persona sells over 2 million in the West. Or even 2 million worldwide.

Okay guys, get all huffy if you want, but I provided multiple examples.  And that was the point.  Each subsequent major FF game has sold less.  And the non main FF games are also not selling as well as projected to.  Why?  Because they aren't the #1RPG on the block anymore.  There's major competition now adays.  If you think these other series aren't worthy of being considered just because they haven't sold multi-millions yet, then that's your problem.  But there's also something to be said when there's 10 major RPG series buying for the spot where only 1-2 previously competed with FF in the SNES/PSX gens.

ANd you still haven't accounted for the loss in sales at any rate.  Are you wanting to just blame it all on oversaturation of the series?



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PullusPardus on 23 September 2009

Then no one can save JRPGs



outlawauron on 23 September 2009
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
outlawauron said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
outlawauron said:

-Final Fantasy being 'JRPG flagship franchise' is arguable.  In Japan, its Dragon Quest.  In America, Final Fantasy already is losing dominance to series such as Namco's Tales series, Atlus titles such as Disgaea and of course, the machine that is known as Pokemon.

Come on now. Please don't tell me you actually believe that crap.

Uh...many of the same people who are heavy console RPG fans play both series.  I already know countless people who have passed up major Final Fantasy releases for Tales games, Disgaea sequels, Persona, Fire Emblem or the other major title I named, Pokemon.  Why else do you think many of the Final Fantasy remakes and sequels as of late have been of such low sales (aside from the obvious oversaturation)?  FFIVDS, FFTactics Advance 2, FFTactics Remake, etc.  These all underperformed beyond expectations.

lol, that's good. Compare the sales of remakes to the full fledged titles in their respective series. Let's see when Final Fantasy XIII sells more than every Tales game, every game Atlus has ever published, Fire Emblem, and I could go on.

Let me know whenever a Tale, a Disgaea, or Persona sells over 2 million in the West. Or even 2 million worldwide.

Okay guys, get all huffy if you want, but I provided multiple examples.  And that was the point.  Each subsequent major FF game has sold less.  And the non main FF games are also not selling as well as projected to.  Why?  Because they aren't the #1RPG on the block anymore.  There's major competition now adays.  If you think these other series aren't worthy of being considered just because they haven't sold multi-millions yet, then that's your problem.  But there's also something to be said when there's 10 major RPG series buying for the spot where only 1-2 previously competed with FF in the SNES/PSX gens.

ANd you still haven't accounted for the loss in sales at any rate.  Are you wanting to just blame it all on oversaturation of the series?

But Tales is in a huge decline and other series are also in a decline such as Disgaea and Star Ocean. The only JRPG series that is on the upswing, that I can think of, is Persona. That has more to do with exposure through the net though. I really don't think down FF sales are because of more compeitition, because if that was true, then the other series would have picked up. (which isn't the case)

And, the SNES/PSX were a lot more crowded than what we currently have. Especially on the quality front.

And what you're comparing is entirely stupid. You can not compare remakes to main titles. Compare the FF4 remake on DS to the Tales of Eternia remake on PSP. Over 1 million vs. 300k.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

Kenryoku_Maxis on 23 September 2009
outlawauron said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
outlawauron said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
outlawauron said:

-Final Fantasy being 'JRPG flagship franchise' is arguable.  In Japan, its Dragon Quest.  In America, Final Fantasy already is losing dominance to series such as Namco's Tales series, Atlus titles such as Disgaea and of course, the machine that is known as Pokemon.

Come on now. Please don't tell me you actually believe that crap.

Uh...many of the same people who are heavy console RPG fans play both series.  I already know countless people who have passed up major Final Fantasy releases for Tales games, Disgaea sequels, Persona, Fire Emblem or the other major title I named, Pokemon.  Why else do you think many of the Final Fantasy remakes and sequels as of late have been of such low sales (aside from the obvious oversaturation)?  FFIVDS, FFTactics Advance 2, FFTactics Remake, etc.  These all underperformed beyond expectations.

lol, that's good. Compare the sales of remakes to the full fledged titles in their respective series. Let's see when Final Fantasy XIII sells more than every Tales game, every game Atlus has ever published, Fire Emblem, and I could go on.

Let me know whenever a Tale, a Disgaea, or Persona sells over 2 million in the West. Or even 2 million worldwide.

Okay guys, get all huffy if you want, but I provided multiple examples.  And that was the point.  Each subsequent major FF game has sold less.  And the non main FF games are also not selling as well as projected to.  Why?  Because they aren't the #1RPG on the block anymore.  There's major competition now adays.  If you think these other series aren't worthy of being considered just because they haven't sold multi-millions yet, then that's your problem.  But there's also something to be said when there's 10 major RPG series buying for the spot where only 1-2 previously competed with FF in the SNES/PSX gens.

ANd you still haven't accounted for the loss in sales at any rate.  Are you wanting to just blame it all on oversaturation of the series?

But Tales is in a huge decline and other series are also in a decline such as Disgaea and Star Ocean. The only JRPG series that is on the upswing, that I can think of, is Persona. That has more to do with exposure through the net though. I really don't think down FF sales are because of more compeitition, because if that was true, then the other series would have picked up. (which isn't the case)

And, the SNES/PSX were a lot more crowded than what we currently have. Especially on the quality front.

And what you're comparing is entirely stupid. You can not compare remakes to main titles. Compare the FF4 remake on DS to the Tales of Eternia remake on PSP. Over 1 million vs. 300k.

First of all, I wasn't comparing any indavidual FF games to any indavidual games in any other series.  My original point was to say that FF games were losing dominance because a number of other RPG series (combined) had come along to challenge its dominance by giving a number of examples.

Second of all, I don't think Tales is in a 'huge decline'.  All JRPGs on the 360 didn't sell well.  Hence why they're being ported to the PS3 now.  However, if you're going by the sales of Tales of Symphonia 2, maybe you have something there.

Also, I don't think Final Fantasy had as much competition on the SNES/PSX front.  Since a lot of the competition either wasn't as popular or was made by Square or the later company that would be merged with Square (Enix).  And especially if you're going to make a big stink that series like Tales or Atlus based series aren't major players, then what kind of competition did Final Fantasy ever have beyond DQ or Pokemon?



Six upcoming games you should look into:

 

  

Epke on 23 September 2009

The end of an Era!



Seraphic_Sixaxis on 23 September 2009
wenlan said:

FFXIII flops => mainly because of the poor sale # in Japan.

Microsoft will be the one that receives most of the blames and SE is the next.

Don't mean to raise the idea of protectionism here in the US forum... The truth is, a lot of Japanese gamers are pissed when SE announced FFXIII will goes to X360. A lot of people believe that's the main reason why SE announced FFvXIII to be "worldwide exclusive to PS3" so soon after the FFXIII announcement last year. Go read the posts at 2ch forum last year and you will find out.

Whether Japanese FF fans will boycott FFXIII remains to be seen. But come to think of it, maybe that's why Famitsu made such a lowball estimate on FFXIII sale in Japan........ I hope SE and SCEJ will do a better job promoting FFXIII at this year's TGS.


I like this one.